sure but i am able to remove or significantly lower the statistical risk with medical evidence then i should be able to either get the condition accepted with a loading or i should be able to just have this particular issue excluded. the question at hand to me would be more as to wether it's absolutely required to exclude all lumps per se due to the probably slightly higher probability of them occuring if you already have one (albeit harmless and not requiring any medical attention so not causing any claim) or if it would be possible to say we just exclude lumps whereever it is right now from this policy.

and again: if you choose a european h&s plan you can get full cover without any exclusions. a lump that does not require medical attention is not cause for any kind of exclusion. at least this is what the friendly CS from allianz worldwidecare emailed me yesterday night.

but yes i do understand your point and this is exactly what we experienced here too. but getting back to the insurer and talking, providing further information so the risk can be better assesed also helps. we have seen this too. it's just a question of how little exclusion is possible as an end result in malaysia.

cenkudu i dont know which companies your friend tried but i'd check with allianz and axa. both are initially trigger happy in terms of exclusion but both are very willing to talk to you if you do contact them directly. from my experience with axa: agent didnt help but calling them myself did help a great deal.

well personally i would not want to have all lumps anywhere excluded but just this one. and i would expect my insurance to do just that.

there are two standalone plans for CI available: Pacific and AIA (now chartis?). standard chartered has a CI only for SC customers too.

premium is per age band. compare, there are signficant differences in the premium based on sex and wether you smoke or not.

standalone ist just a pure CI cover. if you want to have life, tpd you need to either go for a package or buy those in addition.

i dont think it makes much of a difference. but it does depends on your insurance requirements. for me personally i'd take a very very high cover while i am young and gradually reduce it zero by the time i retire. i.e. 1M++ then slowly lower to offset just the amout of money i would still have to earn to retire with my set level of monthly "pension". if you do it like this, then standalone is significantly cheaper because the higher early cover is almost free while the lower cover at the end of the period would probably be more costly. if you buy a package you get a uniform amount that rarely reflects your actual need more than for a few years in the middle of the insurance period.

i dunno - i did that calculation too and the costs from whole life i got quoted (AIA, Allianz, GE) + the extra insurance still worked against me. i dont think i have the calculation on the PC but there was some serious overpayment involved in our case so we decided against it. might be due to the covers we didnt really want when we use single insurance i really cant remember since the decision and comparison was made almost 8 yrs ago.

especially since you're on a budget you should by no means by an ILP or whole life policy. so both policies you mentioned should be avoided. what you need is a medical card standalone (H&S plan) from a general insurance company. not only will this set you back only a few hundred RM per year but it will also allow you to change plans easier in the future. buy one with guaranteed renewal so you know you'll be covered. there are some good plans around but it will depend very much on how much money you can spare or how much cover you really want as to which plan will be more suitable. let me know budget / desired cover and i come up with a suggestion for you.

also please note: if you can make a claim yourself, you should buy the insurance directly. you will get 15% discount (that is what the agent gets - every year of your policy!). why waste money if you're on a budget?

on a side note:

1. if someone tries to pressure you into an insurance - run! never ever buy because you are pressured. buy only what you truely and completely understand.

2. dont mix insurance and investments. they dont mix. buy them seperately.

the main disadvantage of the plans you mentioned is that they employ forward payment i.e. you pay a more uniform premium throughout the policy life because you pay large amounts of future premiums now. general insurance goes by age bracket so you pay small money now and you will face sharply rising premiums once you reach 60++. that is why you should safe some $$ to offset future increases in the premium.

if you need more info, check out the extensive thread on H&S policies we have.

AhPinG,

H&S = Hospitalisation & Surgical

5-600 p.a. will buy you around 200k cover, no default deductable, guaranteed renewal but premiums will rise over time. on average you will pay 1000-1600 p.a. if you look at insurance from 25-75 years of age.

you can safe the balance in a savings plan anytime. no need to join with insurance.

and once again: your agent is after your money quite obviously. take your money and run. he/she will not sell you what you need but what gives a fat comission. might as well burn your money.

cuebiz,
a decent insurance has no co-insurance. the 20% co-insurance for higher room and board left aside.

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Added on March 10, 2010, 3:53 pmif you only want 100k cover you can get that below 400 RM p.a. at your age.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Mar 10 2010, 03:53 PM

HHalphaomega,

agreed that might come in handy. but a simply CI to cover say 10-20 years of premiums would be an alternative to offset this.

since TS is on a budget i guess he should really only buy what's most needed. i find it very sad that friends try to pressure him to buy something he cant afford to gain comission. ppl like that should not be allowed to be agents as their actions are not ethical.

AhPinG,

you're friend clearly doesnt listen to what you want. get the medical plan you want and forget about your friend's suggestions.

all their arguments is just crap (pardon the language) to sucker you into buying what serves you're friends interest best and NOT yours.

an insurance is NOT an investment. insurance premiums are gone - they are always gone no matter what plan. the hole-life plans are just very versed in masquerading that fact by adding many things into one. you can add a 50k CI for pennies (dont take this literally! its just cheap) if you want by buying one from GI companies.

once again my advise:

1) dont talk to your friend about insurance. he/she she just wants the comission

2) look at what the market has to over

3) choose what you feel comfy with premium wise and what you can afford in the long run

4) if you got extra cash, buy extra cover

5) by GI insurances direct to safe further. cut the agent alltogether so you dont risk getting another one who just wants to maximise his/her comission and not your insurance coverage.

rockets,

20k is too little. expect dialysis costs to be around 20k p.a., cancer can be more. your best bet is to call an insurance to ask for a ballpark figure (estimate).

it's a good idea to buy a top-up policy with deductable to cover just for those two points. tokio marine is pretty ideal for that. cheap premium and you can secure yourself a seizable extra cover. other add-ons are available too. i think TM is the cheapest though cause of 10k deductable per sickness. but since you have 20k covered you're good to go.

GI = General Insurance company. not life

cuebiz,

i have no idea where you get your information from but its wrong. there are plenty of GI H&S plans around that have a guaranteed renewal. this is by no means spmething special for life products.

trust me i know how to do my homework. most respectable offers are guaranteed by now. i.e. axa, allianz, ing, pacific, tokio marine, former AIA and most others. i have done a very thorough survey.

without guarantee and thus garbage are:

sihat malaysia
MSIG
Lonpac
MUI
OAC

and some few "special" packages from the rest of the industry. its not that hard to avoid them as those packages are also not that attractive even if compared with renewal guarantee polices. as you can see choosing GI is save if you double check it got renewal guarantee. subject to approval is fast becoming a thing of the past and will hopefully soon be just a mere memory.

assuming your parents are 60+ yrs already then the following options remain:

Berjaya Sompo B-Rawat (max 70)
Kurnia MediGuard Value/Premier/Senior (max 65)
Tokio Marine Medic Plus (max 65) - comes with deductable

and PruHealth will also take applications up to max. 70.

all of course will be subject to underwriting and will exclude pre-existing conditions.

AhPinG,

as pointed out:

cashless is medical card, claim handled directly by insurance if you have cover

non-cashless: pay first and claim later. it's cjeaper because people who actually have to the bill first cause smaller bills. this is a statistical fact and is consquentially passed down to you.

for either plan there is no need for an agent. legit claims are easy to file and submit and dont encounter any problems as to my personal experience. i only got one claim originally rejected in the last 10 yrs and after a single complaint via email got a full refund anyway. never had to argue with anyone. of course all claims where actually covered by the policy terms.

if your claim is valid it doesnt matter much which option you choose IF you can make advance payments. if not then take cashless!

as to the policies: the most economical policy totally depends the cover you need/can afford and the coverage you require. blanket statements dont help.

pru is generally a lot pricier than others though and while they have tons of gimmicks (payback and whatnot) this is basically just paying back some of the extra costs incurred before so it's almost a non-benefit. other policies also get upgrades on premium revisions so no big plus also. 20% room&board is something to look out for. only GI policy with room categories and no penalty if you exceed r&b allocation is AXA as far as i know. pru's major setback is the default co-insurance. you have to weight the features against each other.

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Added on March 16, 2010, 6:51 pmregular comission on a recurring yearly basis is 15%. there might be extra comissions for landing a new client (usually this is the case). dont count on the discount beeing perpetual.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Mar 16 2010, 06:51 PM

rockets,

i think TM is a good top-up insurance. axa like most (all?) insurers have a clause allowing them to alter the policy in some way. the insurer must have the right to do so simply because the benefits might change over time or further benefits might be introduced. amending is usually better than changing since it implies adding something instead of striking something out. i dont think there is a policy on the market (life of GI) that guarantees the terms and conditions to be static. if you know of any such insurance that comes with guaranteed renewal let me know. usually such clauses will only be used to increase benefits to the insured.

since this is the policy blanket such changes apply to all insured and will not allow for individual exclusions or loadings which are excluded by TM as well as AXA and pretty much all reputable plans.

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Added on March 16, 2010, 7:33 pmlimit per disability is just that. you can claim the per disablity for specified amounts and time. if you dont recover then this will be a problem (or a case for a top-up insurance).

your question about the deductable claim is right.

policy A (deductable of 10.000), policy B (no deductable)

claim 25.000 - you can claim 10.000 from B and 15.000 from A no problem. you just cant make a claim twice (i.e. get more money than you spend).

This post has been edited by PJusa: Mar 16 2010, 07:33 PM

HHalphaomega,

you sure about that? i dont know about GE but i spoke with the guys from MSIG before asking them about their yearly renewable feature. they told me straight away that if i make high claim or for example cancer claim they either wont renew me next year or exclude cancer and such. since non-guaranteed is usually a lot cheaper this makes sense for the insurance (bad for the insured....)

ok,

first of the co-insurance only kicks in when you exceed your room&board. so choosing the correct rate is a good idea. most plans of decent coverage carry a reasonable r&b rate.
if you exceed it you might be in trouble - so not having this is great, esp. with low cover.

HHalphaomega,
my concern was the poster mentioned its no renewal guarantee. if only portfolio withdrawal condition then it's a renewal guarentee if the insurance cant cancel the policy on me. otherwise i'd be in trouble. a rider normally has renewal guarantee. i havent checked what policy precisly was mentioned. if you have a non-renewal guarantee policy you sit on a time-bomb albeit a very cheap one.

mfitri77,
please double check on axa - the 20% co-insurance ONLY applies if you choose a room and board category above your entitelment with SCO. if you stay in the same category you only pay the difference in r&b and are not subject to con-insurance.

on a side note: of course you can get the agent's recurring comission as a discount if you do a walk-in. i am getting this discount from each and every policy we have. car, fire, householder, houseowner, PA, medical, senior PA and whatnot. all i have to do is ask for it. not a single insurance has refused it. to me it's worth it not using an agent but that is just me as i have said before. i prefer to save and handle the claim. if you dont feel comfy with that, take an agent. to me all the agents i have encountered so far have been little helpfull or not helpfull at all. your mileage might vary. even the only half-way usefull one turned out to be not too helpfull when he was needed so i went direct on that policy as well. i might just be my bad luck with agents though

first off, i agree with mfitri77 that yearly renewable policies are bad for you. avoid them like the plague.

second: why do i like SCO's upgraded room and board category? because i can (and did take) the maximum plan. it's unlikely i'll ever need a regular room of a category higher than "basic suite". so i can with the highest plan pretty much weasel around the 20% co-insurance issue. it's that simple. of course choosing the lowest plan is not always the best idea as mfitri77 pointed out. but that applies to all policies and the GI in particular. in the sense that you are just stuck to a category SCO this seems better than other GI with just the price tag and the co-insurance. as can be seen: advantage of a certain feature pretty much depends upon plan-selection but it still apply across board too. it's not ideal but its probably one of the best offers around. of course if you take a basic plan you should be expecting to pay partially yourself anyway. the small limits are hardly enough to cover serious issues.

but seriously i dont want to promote SCO per se. there are serious disadvantages with the policy which is why i only use it as primary policy and have 1 or two additional policies to cover me. if you choose just one plan i'd take something else.

as per the limits. most guranteed renewal polices have a lifetime limit. but not every policy with lifetime limit is guaranteed renewable. so it all depends on the plan chosen.

at this very moment my personal opinion is that none of the plans currently available to the general public in malaysia are ideal due to limits and sublimits imposed that do not reflect the current costs of sickness. there are international policies that cover those needs far better but they will be more (much more in fact) pricey. so its boils down to needs and abilities. i like likehouse asia's plan currently the best. its been posted in the H&S thread. the annual limit is very high, it's guaranteed renewable for life and only has three price ranges so the mix is better.