hehe, well one can dream right? my wife is actually making me think about this french insurance. seems that their fees are not that bad if you look at for long term. i just wonder what the premium is like beyond age of 65...

but then again its not that long ago that there were talks of a general healthcare insurance for malaysia - then everything went silent again. for the sake of the ones who cant afford private care, there should be a mandatory cover from an insurance body (preferably non profit) but i think we rather see pigs fly than having this happening here.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Dec 11 2009, 05:32 PM

budget has to be observed of course - the better cover you get now, the more protection you can enjoy later on

i think you can do that. i am not sure if you can just cancel the medical part of the ILP but it's most likely a good idea to pull the plug entirely since the policy is not that old. the loss is still acceptable to some degree. you could also qualify for a partial refund of premiums.

in general low-end plans are the least cost effective ones. you could either upgrade to at least the 100k plan or look for a plan with a lower cost per 1k/cover over a specific period of time that you want to pay for your son's cover.

cenkudu,

should be no problem - also an ehtical agent will not try to make you stay with a policy just for comission's sake. simply let the agent know you decided against it and that's that.

i dont deem life, CI and PA critical if your medical card is on the higher end level. if you can afford it a PA would be a good idea. speaking of PA... i am actually looking for a standalone PA for my kid - does anyone know of PA plans that are offered for kids aged 2? my wife and i run under MCIS supreme PA and they dont take minors under this plan. and it does make little sense to take another PA just for the sake of insuring my kid right?

agreed - it does come at a price though. (i'd still take their elite plan if i could though but singapore plan is not available to me)

thanks raph - will take a look at those PAs.

well the asthma issue actually shows the importance of getting H&S plans as early as possible and as comprehensive as possible. it's cheap and you can always downgrade. upgrading will be an issue though.

if you use a family plan, your kid gets its own card, limit and all. no worries.

and a quick answer to the general discussion before i am off for my annual holiday: the US system is not functional but that does not mean a gov. mandatory insurance doesnt work. looking to europe shows its not a problem - rates of course will have to be adjusted too but on average the public will get better healthcare. the big company can negotiate discount deals for meds, hospital etc.

weikian,

1) makes little sense. many GI companies actually specialise in providing medical insurance (see for example axa globally) and most if not all (non local) ones have extensive portfolio experience. GI is always cheaper than Life for reasons outlined before. it has nothing to do with service or claims.

i really cannot understand why anyone of you guys would come up with the idea (or hearsay) that life outperforms GI. in terms of claims and whatnot this is not true - and it simply cant be. it's that easy.

this observation might come from the fact that many malaysians purchase relatively "good" cover from life policies (i wont go into the reasons for that) and buy "crap" cover from GI if any. so the experience leads them to the conclusion they get bad claims service when they make a claim from GI. this is however totally unrelated to the GI vs. Life discussion but exclusively due to the fact that they had an indadequate cover.

the claims process will be identicall for Life and GI given the same scope of cover. any statement contrary would most likely be wrong and based on misobservation.

furthermore its a direct result of the way the insurances operate that you will pay more for the same cover if you buy it from a life insurance.

if you buy a good H&S plan from a GI you will not only enjoy a more cost efficient cover but you will also not run into any issues with claims or whatever. you do get what you pay for though. dont expect a miracle from a 75 RM p.a. 5k cap policy. of course a hospital wont rely on such a policy alone as 5k merely covers the cost of a week stay with a "basis" sickness.

when it comes to the conditions life and GI H&S policies in malaysia are equally good or bad - with some especially horrible execptions and loopholes which we have discussed before. the only thing worse on the life side is the extra cost and if required the fact that you can only get the H&S plan as a rider.

if you want H&S buy just that. and i would recommend buying it from a GI company (read the thread why). if money if no objective to you and you want great coverage (i.e. millions of RM p.a. and no sublimits) PM me for some companies (internationally) that will offer just that. i mentioned some of them before. the policies offered by allianz worldwidecare, lighthouse.asia and other expatriate focused medical insurances are without a doubt the very best in terms of contract and cover. if you have to opt for the second best option (local policie) i would strongly suggest to opt for one or two good standalone H&S plans from reuputable insurers. to me (and this is my personal opinion and by no means the others are not reputable) means that the top choices will always be companies with a large degree of foreign (and preferably european) control. simply because european tradition for healthcare and the level of cover by far exceeds the cover given in north-america and elsewhere. the only thing we dont really need in malaysia is outpatient cover due to the low cost involved.

and one word to the contract:

while its uncommon to read them - everyone should. and ask questions if not 100% sure. dont ask the agent - you get useless answers. call the insurance and talk to underwriting. get clarifications in writing and in a legally binding way (signature, chop etc.). always (!!) get the entire contact in advance. if you dont get it - run away. if you ask for a H&S and you are beeing offered whole life, i'd run too. not showing me what i want first is an equally bad thing. tying my H&S to something else btw. is the same level to me personally.

epalbee3,

if you can afford it, go beyond 200k. personally i'd feel pretty save with a number closer to 1M.

about your kurnia comment, you are mistaken with 2):

1) is true, i believe until 65 though according to my records
2) 20% coinsurance applies arcross all their policies if R&B exceeds the limit. most insurances have this clause if not all. only axa does not imply this quota unless your rooom category is exceeded (very usefully if oversees!)
3) most good H&S plans have this
4) agreed but the annual limit is relatively low and the lifetime limit is only 3x annual limit. early commitment will not provide safety. 10x annual limit should be the absolute minimum. if you can, get a policy with just an annual limit instead.
5) from a quick scan i believe kurnia's premium is somewhat in the middle or upper middle of the premium per 1k cover for a cover from age 23-65. but then again the lowest premium should not be the deciding factor. i have no idea how claims are processed and all though. ask around to get a better idea on the service if required.

sorry but this comparison makes absolutely no sense at all and you should know it doesnt. you compare premiums and cover issues of a 56 year old GI (what cover what company btw?) with a premium at age 20. you might as well say that 1950 a teh tarik was much cheaper so you better buy it in 1950.

you must look at the average premium over the period you seek cover. this is the only number relevant to you and me and everyone else. bear in mind that by paying more in younger years you also forgoe investment return etc. so the actual amount you pay in advance is much much higher than the excess in premium.

you will find that due to the way GI and Life works you will never be able to get a better deal from a life policy. it's simply impossible due to risk calculations and average premium paid. buying a GI and SAVING the balance yourself will always outperform a Life policy and will also be adjusted to increased demand in terms of cover if it's a good one (at a price of course).

while it's true that there is no best plan per se - a fact we have previously established - it's also true that there is a personal best for everyone. a good overview and understanding of how plans and insurance work helps a lot - many if not all agents i have met with have very little actual knowledge of either. also they will not be inclined to recommend the competition. thus you should get a complete overview and make an educated choice.

if you consider that
a) you want good cover
b) price for good cover is high
c) GI cover is cheap when young and expensive when old
d) you tend to get more financially stable over age
choosing a high GI H&S plan sounds like a good strategy to lock in a high cover doesnt it?

as for senior insurance with applicant age of 60+ the following options are available:

Kurnia - MediGuard Senior (max applicant age 65, max 80)
Tokio Marine Insurans (M) Bhd - Medic Plus (Top-Up insurance only; max applicant age 65, max 70)
pruHealth (max applicant age 70, max age 100)

i dont have all insurances yet (it's not easy and i have been very busy) so the above is only as to the ones i covered already.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Jan 5 2010, 02:32 PM

are you sure you compared the correct premiums. per 1k cover kurnia doesnt strike me as cheap.

numbertwo,

the allianz plan i have in the comparison already for a while. did not bother to seperate the deductables out. the plan is overall pretty good. a deductable of 2000, 5000, 10000,15000 is optional - i memory serves me correctly, the deductable is overall annual deductable not per disability (as it's the case with tokio marine).

from my research, renewal is guranteed without loading or exclusions. once you have it, you have it. the limits for annual outpatiend cancer / dialysis are small but on the max plan acceptable (20k each).

pricewise the plan is one of the more competitive ones. i will check out how much discount they give for the deductables - with the deductable and a hefty premium discount this plan might work very well in combination with another plan for example AXA. i toyed with a reversal i.e. Allianz no deductable and AXA high deductable for bursts (50% off at 20k deductable) but the lifetime limit with allianz means you might be better off with using a no lifetime limit policy as primary and a policy such as allianz with a high deductable as secondary. however other policies seem to be even cheaper

This post has been edited by PJusa: Jan 16 2010, 10:32 AM

i agree ... the high plans look rather decent. at the discount level they offer allianz might actually be a good alternative to tokio marine as top up. also the lifetime limit is higher and so is the max age.

numbertwo,

allianz is not a new plan. the plan has been around for a couple of years. if you want to see how well the premium is managed it would be a good idea to ask them to provide the premium history.

this is not a H&S insurance but a whole life product. just buying the H&S plan is not only easier but also significantly cheaper. the health component is identical to the regular allianz plan we discussed if i am not mistaken. also note that allianz GI will give a walk-in discount of 15% if you avoid the agent.

thanks numbertwo for the reply. saves me the hassle. it seems Ericpoo didnt follow the thread, so for your information:

we already established in the thread what numbertwo concluded for your information. in a nutshell, you are advising to buy the worst plan offered to malaysians. the alternatives outlined are far, far superior to the powerlink plan you offered.

that's bad indeed. i wont include the deductable option as an individual choice.