i'll follow numbertwo's practise but it should be possible to do it differently. clause 10) should just translate into "the sum of all claims cant exceed the costs incured by you."

ajau, waiyeap,

totally agree.

rockets,

i have to admit i am not 100% but i can check this out. i am using TM solely for the case that the primary cover is depleted. but it's my understanding that as long as the bill is not charged twice i can basically make the claim where i want. the only problem is that it's posing an inherent scenario of double insurance. TMs condition is basically pay 10k for any disability first, the balance can claim. so where you claim the first 10k is up to you. so it should also be possible to claim 10k from primary and the balance 40k from TM if cover permits.

the easiest way would be however to just claim with one company until you exhaust the limit then claim the balance from the second. i have not been in the situation that i needed to do this so this is as of now an assumption. (hopefully i never have to but well...) i will try to clarify this with TM - they are however hopelessly slow when you email them so i need to find the time to call them.

yes you can get a renewal treatment but only if your existing cover is equal or better if i am not mistaken. and while BNM encourages this "takeover" of policies, insurers dont actively offer it unless you ask for it.

may i add a word to the concern of rising room rates - while this might be worrying please bear in mind that pretty much every policy receives upgrades - usually in tandem with the premium-adjustments for GI products. this includes very regularly the room rate as well for the very reason that room rates increase over time. in other words a comfortable room rate today will most likely not be too shabby in the future either.

ajau, mfitri77,

i hear you guys and i agree. which is why i take max. plans - they are more cost efficient and usually come with R&B that will be sufficient for most (if not all) cases. but of course you also face the dilemma of affordability. if it's out of your budget there is nothing you can do.

the issue with a max. co-insurance is that from my memory those plans carry rather low annual / lifetime (less than 20 x annual limit) limits. so if you have a high bill and exceed your annual or worse lifetime limit you face another co-insurance issue because the insurance actually only covers a very specific annual/lifetime amount - anything beyond this amount is your hidden co-insurance anyway.

all in all medical insurance in malaysia is not that easy. the more you look at the products, the less attractive they will become simply because in an ideal world we would want to be covered so well that pretty much no matter what we will have someone to pay the bill for us. unfortunately the monetary means required for such cover will be out of the reach of the vast majority and thus are not available on the local market.

for a really extensive cover you might want to check out april mobilité from france. lighthouse.asia offers a medical plan underwritten by them that covers for life, specifically designed for cover in malaysia and with an insane annual (no lifetime) limit of 1,000,000 US$.

premiums are high though starting at 903 US$ p.a. and after age of 70 (till death) 2193 US$. i fear subject to adjustments too. see pic for partial list of coverage.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Mar 20 2010, 10:08 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

if i were you i would buy a medical card seperately from all other policies. this issue has been discussed to great lengths before. some may advise against it and while there might be arguments for buying an all-in-solution i think there are very strong points against it: lock-in in a multitude of products while your expectations and needs might change, high premium that you wont be able to do anything about and due the life cum medical policy structure higher premiums than with standalone policies. usually the cover for a 250 premium/month witll be low in terms of medical cover. you should always get this as high as possible. a burned-money policy (ie. general insurance cover) is better since its ever so much cheaper. try to ask 500k annual cover and you will see big difference. otherwise i agree with chew_ronnie: med first, buy this and see what's left on the budget. then buy life/CI/PA in whatever order your personal set of urgency is set until your pre-set budget is depleted.

abbey,

i would *not* sign a contract carrying this clause. and this is by no means standard for standalone cards. there are tons of cards around that will *not* adjust premiums based on your personal claims experience. in actual fact this very clause teaches you that the insurer is not really an insurer at all. it's a disgrace for the very name (not that there is only one company doing this but it's a disgrace nevertheless).

if you need a list of reputable companies that *do not* increase premiums based on your personal claims experience but only on the overall base of the insured (which is how it should be done!) you may ask me or scroll back. i have posted a list before.

i strongly suggest to boycott companies that dare to tell you we insure you but if you make a claim, we'll increase your premium. only policies that adjust premiums based on portfolio claims should be allowed to call themself insurance.

i am talking about general but the same thing applies to life. very few (sad) companies still dare to utilise clauses that allow them to adjust premiums based on an individual's claims experience. those insurances are not worth the paper they are printed on. there really is no way to sugar-coat that. but luckily for us, those companies are by and large getting less and less and hopefully they do not manage to capture any significant business. they just dont deserve our money.

to the best of my knowledge the following insurances from the general insurance segment offer medical insurances that are

a) guaranteed renewable &
b) will not have any sort of loading / premium adjustment based on individuals claims experience (naturally adjustments based on entire portfolio will take place):

AXA SmartCare Optimum
AXA SmartCare Executive
Allianz EB MediShield Plus
Allianz Care Individual (Only after no claims for first two years)
AIA ExcelCare Plus
Kurnia MediGuard Value (until age 65)
Kurnia MediGuard Premier (see above)
MAA / MAA Takaful MedicaLife 207
MAA / MAA Takaful MedicaGen 200
Multi-Purpose Insurans Bhd Multi Medi-Plus (after two years)
Pacific Insurance Bhd. Medipac
Pacific Insurance Bhd. medi-major
Tokio Marine Insurans (M) Bhd Medic Plus (after 12 months no claims)
Tokio Marine Insurans (M) Bhd Premier Medic Partner (after 12 months no claims)
RHB MediSure (two years no claims required)
UOB Ideal Care
IKHLA Medic Assist Takaful
Manulife Manucare100

for others i wasnt able to confirm that renewal is guaranteed and no loading for individual claims experience is assured. so the list might not be comprehensive!

any errors or omissions, feel free to correct me. i already noted prudential might belong to this list as well (even though i was only looking at general insurance not life).

---

Added on August 10, 2010, 9:48 pmabbey,

for 750 p.a. 31yrs female there is plenty of options from the general insurance line but bear in mind that premiums will increase sharply as you grow older. if you only want to spend an average 750 p.a. until say 65 your options will be much less!

you can refer to the above options if you like. you might want to look into the option of combining a low no deductable policy with a policy with a significant deductable to allow for a burst in time of need. your mileage may wary. i personally like the combination of AXA SCO with Tokio Marine Medic Plus. Pacific's medi-major is also a good deductable top-up plan.

The nice thing about AXA is the lack of a lifetime limit. especially usefull if you start young and intend to stay with them. their cancer & dialysis benefits are sucky when used as outpatient. if you choose axa and want to cover that too you need a deductable policy that covers cancer and dialysis to a satisfactory degree.

you should toy with the options of just one insurance and then compare with what you can buy as combo policies. see which options covers you better and fits your budget. you should not have a problem to cover at least 100k annual limit with your budget. the final decision is up to you - it will depend on the small differences in terms of "above the regular cover" and how they matter to your personally. if you insure yourself direct, you can ask for 15% discount (agent comission). most if not all companies will give it to you. that way you can effectively cover about RM 880 of policy value with RM 750!

hope this helps.


This post has been edited by PJusa: Aug 10 2010, 09:48 PM

jutamind,

in my experience the answer depends on the pre-existing condition. even if initially an exclusion might be offered you can get in touch with underwriting to negotiate a loading. naturally this is easier for small issues and harder (or next to impossible) for serious issues. afterall the insurance wants to insure risk not certainty

some insurances might (depending on what is the condition) offer a full coverage if condition does not show any issues for a specific period of time - even without loading. this mostly refers to the high end products and international companies and small issues, otherwise severe (!) loadings would be imposed which often makes an exlusion the smarter choice. there is however no harm in talking to the company in question. i would like to see more loadings and less exclusions but its a problematic situation - afterall the insured waited and now the boat is sunken. why should the rest of the insured parties and the insurance pick up the future bills when you didnt insure against the risk before?

abbey,

if you can afford i would go for option 4 - pretty much for the very reasons you stated. i havent come across a cheap cancer protection plan that beats TM Medic Plus. also note you only need to cover for AXA's lousy outpatient benefit there. cancer hospitalisation is covered.

if you want i can give you the benefit overview for the missing plans but i dont think you will be impressed by them.

leongal,

yes there are - pacific and AIA. easy to compare since i only know two.

abbey,

PMed you the details with premiums, current and average until age 65. hope this helps.

leongal,

i dont think so - GE to my knowledge only sells life + riders and no standalone. i would have to check - cant find the product on the website. do you have a link for me?

leongal,

let me know if you get a brochure. i am interested to find out too. i have emailed all insurance companies around 1 year ago and asked for standalone CI policies. the two i mentioned were the only that replied with an offer.

LightEnchanter,

deductable per disability means just that. you need to pay the first 5k/10k of each and every disability. if you are confined for more than one disability, then the cost would be seperated as to each disability. any amount exceeding the deductable would be borne by the insurance (if the condition is covered and you still have money on your annual/lifetime limit). the rest would have to be borne by yourself or a second healthcare policy that you might or might not have.

if the deductable applies only once per disability then normally you wont have to pay for later confinements if the limit has already been exceeded. you might want to double check if the deductable is applicable per policy year and disability or per disability for the entire period of the insurance. the later would be the better option, the first would make it cheaper though

This post has been edited by PJusa: Aug 13 2010, 01:29 PM

you can only claim up the amount that would have been charged in malaysia as reasonable and medically necessary. so if you would have been charged 138k in malaysia then you could claim that amount. if the charge in malaysia would have been 10k you can only claim those 10k. so that's the first catch.

but you should double check with axa if you really can work in singapore and enjoy the malaysian cover. i think it should be possible from the terms i know but i am not to sure as i never had to seriously check on this scenario - so there might be something i'm not aware off

happy_gal,

what kind of insurance did you intend to get? did you ask for investment linked + medical riders + CI etc? those policies do cost around the amount quoted. wether or not you need them would be a thing to question. my personal opinion is that in most cases you dont need them and a more properly thought out coverage does benefit you in terms of cover and costs.

if you only want medical card, 36illness and woman's illness then you should insist on getting what you want and not what benefits the agent best.

you can get a good medical card and a very decent CI coverage as standalone and they will be cheaper. on top of that you can reduce CI over as needed. women's illness you might be able to get seperate from banks and whatnot. i never bothered about them too much since a good medical plan covers them too. you can use the savings to balance out the premium just nicely over time and you should end up with either less premium for the same cover (over a period of say 40 years) or with a much better cover for the same amount of money. what cover did you get from GE in terms of xk RM?

the payor benefit is not much to shout about in my book. you can always buy additional 50k CI or whatever you need to cover the premiums for the medical card. CI is very very cheap when your young. then over time you just reduce accordingly until your actual premium savings can offset the fees - and those will increase cause you can stash the savings in an account.

save extra if you go direct (if you dare to): 15% on helthcare insurance and CI (or was that 25% like PA?).

i highly recommend you check out alternative offers. your pre-existing conditions might be an issue but will most likely just result in blanket exclusions. the statement that all insurances have co-insurance is bullshit. it just a lie. her strategy to compare with even worse co-insurance to make hers look good is just a sales pitch. i would recommend that even if you do choose GE you get yourself a respectable and honest agent if you can find one. yours doesnt seem one to me.

the medical report copy i am not sure. i am not in the industry. maybe someone with detailed insight can shed light on this?

abbey,

thanks for the comments. your strategy is sound. i am still insured with TM and the clause has not changed. renewal just took place and i will double check on the clause. but since i have not been notified of any changes to the blanket policy i doubt it. the staff from TM's phone in lines is - sorry to say so - grossly incompetent and a bunch of idiots who barely know their own products. the reason the policy is cheap is that is a policy with a deductable per disability. adjustments will take place on portfolio base only. i even have this assurance from TM in writing prior to signing. i would be all over them if they secretly change this clause as it would violate a few essential rights of mine (and every other policy holder). once i have the new policy documents i'll post to confirm on this (or will post to bash TM for not keeping it )

i'd say in general it's easier if we can accept that insurance *should* be what is called burnt money. its not an investment - why bother trying to make it look like one at a price? but that's just me and not a majority view in malaysia (but the standard view in europe, northern america and probably australia too). anyways i'd like to take a look in the standlone CIs from HLA, MSIG and GE - could you guys post a link for me?

thanks!

thanks for the link almeizer - i overlooked that. sadly its only for SC customers. will add it to my list anyway to compare their premiums.