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This post has been edited by resident: Sep 26 2010, 04:30 AM

resident,

if i am not mistaken you have to disclose any sicknesses or issues covering the previous five years. and yes AXA is more comprehensive but essentially the scope will be about the same. you might want to check with AXA how long into the past they want information. it's just that AXA guides you better as to what to declare and as such avoids unintentional omissions better. if you have any doubt you can always confirm in writing with any insurance on any issues pertaining these questionaires. usually anything you declare in the initial form will be excluded or subject to loading. what you can do (and should) is to get in touch with the insurance, clarify the severenes of whatever you delcared and request cover if exclusion was the initial response or waiver of loading if a loading has been suggested. this can go back and forth but it's surely worth it.

i understand why you rant and i also rather have the insurance take any prospect without those checks but since most of us come without previous cover they need to somehow be sure about the risk they take. if you have a previous cover you may request for take-over-policy which gets rid of the waiting periods for you.

i am not sure about the consequences of beeing rejected since i have never been without cover. all we ever did was to request take-over which an existing cover present. even if we were rejected the old cover would have been in force. you can check with the insurance company or regulatory body on the consequences of loading/rejection of one application for future applications.

i answered all questions, referenced the old insurance and gave them unconditional rigths to querry on all claims made against all other insurance companies we have had. this is pretty much as good as a full declaration and is safer since i cant forget anything

if i have to drop AXA SCO i will have to take a good look into my budget and depending I would make one of three choices in alphabetical order: Allianz WorlwideCare, Lighthouse AsiaExpat (http://www.joy-stay.com/files/InsurancePlans/Lighthouse_AsiaExpat_Benefits.pdf) or another one of the Expat-Focused insurances, possible with a deductable to save on costs.

@PJusa,

Thanks for the guidance. I'll talk to Axa Affin customer service and a couple of agents to find out Axa's policy. And plan my strategy from there.

This post has been edited by resident: Sep 26 2010, 04:32 AM

resident,

you're welcome. i found that lini from AXA's customer service is quite helpfull. you might want to ask for her. dont forget: anything you get that pertains your policy - get it in black and white. at the end of the day that is the only thing that matters. verbal commitments are worth nothing.

hey.. somebody has actually given me this proposal jz wanted to ask all of ur opinion is this the same as other insurance companies ar...

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Added on August 24, 2010, 5:09 pmjz want to ask the cancer benefits for other companies... do they also exclude the same as per the attachments?

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Added on August 24, 2010, 5:23 pmthe person say 1 of the advantage of this insurance is that the 36critical illness when u claim, it wont affect the life assured sum ..

like say life - 150k
36illness - 150k

if u claim 36illness RM50k then oni the 36illness is reduced to 100k as remaining...

the life assured is still at 150k..

bt then the weird thing about this plan is tht the basic plan (Which is the life plan) will expire or will be no longer valid when i reach age55 years.

however the medical card, 36illness will continue till im 81 / 100 years old.. bt then the medical card and 36illness
is oni riders..

my question here is if the basic plan already expire can the riders continue to be active adn cover me sumore?...

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Added on August 24, 2010, 5:27 pm1 more last question.

lets say the assured is confirmed got 1 of the 36illness so the insurance company will pay rm150k .. how will the waiver work in that case ar?..

the waiver will continue to pay until the policy reaches maturity which is say at 55 years or will it oni pay for another 1 more year then if u cant pay it will lapse already?...

This post has been edited by happy_gal: Aug 24 2010, 05:27 PM


Attached File(s)
 Doc1.doc ( 234k ) Number of downloads: 32

First of all, I see the attached is H&S A.K.A medical card with optional rider. I don't see any life or CI element (unless the cancer benefit, but it's not 36 CI).

As for most CI protection is claimable with lump sum upon diagnosed and survived within a period of time. As far as I know, it will not be the scenario you stated that claim 50k CI and 100k remain.

Anyone pls correct me if I'm wrong.

oh.. it is an investment linked plan with riders lah...

What insurance company is that?

i take it that this is allianz with PowerLink right? couldnt get much info from the website besides a generic promo brochure. so basically it seems it will boil down to what sort of cover you actually bought. from your description that's not really clear. but yes it's investment linked with contributions for the first 6 years, thereafter the contribution is just 5% (95% is for premiums). i seriously doubt that 6 years of investment (which are charged fees every month) will do you good for a long insurance run, from their own example with premium at 1200 RM p.a. 5% or 60 bucks goes into investments from year 7 onwards. at the same time the service charge is already 60 bucks p.a. too! on top they have fund management charge. so just by using their charges you actually have no contribution after year 6 at all. you might as well get a non investment linked plan then

I think 7 years onward, 95% from your paid contribution will be used to buy units and then it will cancel the unit to pay for insurance charges. The total insurance charges usually should not be more than the paid contribution at the early stage maybe before your age around 50-60. The remaining (purchased units minus insurance charges) is your cash value. The accumulated cash value may be used in the future maybe after your age around 55 and above to pay for insurance charges because at that time your paid contribution is not enough to pay for the insurance charges.

For Prudential from 7 years onward, 100% from your contribution will be used to buy units and it works as per my explanation above. I guess Allianz unit-link concept still the same with Prudential, just the percentage is different.

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Added on August 24, 2010, 11:12 pmEvery insurance company has unique product. Very hard to really compare apple to apple. The most important thing, what is written black and white in the policy is matters.

About the CI, usually you claim all in 1. if your CI coverage is 150k, once you diagnosed with any of the illness, you should get 150k. Not 50k and the remaining 100k can claim for other illnesses. However, unlike Prudential Multiple Crisis Protector, you can claim the CI coverage 3 times when diagnosed with CI (subject to term & condition)

Usually death benefit is in lieu with CI. If Death is 150k and CI is 150k, once u had claim CI, there is no more death benefit. For investment-link, if there is other attach unit deducting rider, the policy will not be terminated (however you can choose to surrender). If you take payor benefit, your premium is free so that you can still enjoy for other benefit from other unit deducting rider. At maturity or on your death, you/your nominee can still get the total cash value from the policy.

However, unlike Prudential Crisis Shield Plus, the CI coverage once claim, does not effect Sum Assured. But if there is no claim of CI upon death or TPD, the CI coverage will be paid together with Sum Assured. As example Sum Assured is RM100k, Crisis Shield Plus is RM50k.
- If diagnosed with CI, you will get RM50k lump sum. If you die or TPD at later stage, you/nominee will get RM100k.
- If death or TPD occur first, you will get RM150k, no claim will be paid to CI if you diagnosed to CI at later stage.

About the exclusion - Cancer in 36 CI, usually exclude some cancer, esp female related cancer. The list of exclusion may vary from one insurance company to another. You may need to take another rider or stand alone policy to be covered by un-covered item in 36 CI.

However the attached list of exclusion only applicable if you take optional rider on top of H&S. You may check this benefit with CI coverage. If there is overlapping of coverage, please confirm with the insurance company, you can claim from both rider. Some insurance company pay for both rider. Some maybe not. Please be careful so that you are not paying for 2 same item but can claim only once.

About basic plan expire at age 55. I don't have detail on your proposal. Usually investment-link basic plan cover until 80/100. I'm not so sure abt the product you mentioned, but it may happen to previous Prulink Education Plan or PruBSN Takafulink Cerdik. The basic plan cover until age 25 but the medical card coverage until age 70. At age 25, Prudential will give opportunity within 6 months to the life assured to transfer the medical card coverage to new policy which carry any pre-existing illness/condition happen during previous term. However there is no guarantee the premium will remain the same.

About the waiver, once you diagnosed with CI and get paid with RM150k, your monthly premium will be waived until the maturity of the policy. So you can enjoy other benefit inside your policy. This is very useful in example of cancer/kidney failure. You may need your medical card to pay for cancer/kidney treatment. So if you can get the medical card for 'free' while getting the cancer/dialysis treatment, will you find it is very useful to have payor benefit?

This post has been edited by ajau: Aug 24 2010, 11:28 PM

ajau,

read the brochure again and i think you should be right right.
but the brochure says this:

"95% of the investment premium will be allocated for investment [..] while the allocation for insurance premium is per the illustration below (based on annual premium of 1200)".

followed by the table which says

"Allocation for Insurance premium" : "7 & above" : "95%".

so in their illustration they seem to say 95% doesnt go into investment but in premiums instead. correct me if i am wrong - or is the brochure badly phrased?

download here: https://www.allianz.com.my/cls/content.aspx?t=847&m=0

You can say badly phrase, but for me, it is too technical such that people outside very difficult to understand. Plus some agent also confuse and do not understand and make the public more confuse and say investment link is like a scam.

You need to read the earlier sentence:
"the premium that you paid may be split into investment premium and insurance premium".
Depending how you customize your own policy, you may allocate some portion of your monthly premium just to buy unit.

Let's say you want the following protection:
Death, CI, Medical Card, Accidental Benefit, the premium for this protection is RM100.
Since you are interested to have this policy as a saving tool, you can choose to top up another RM50. But this RM50 will only do investment. It will not contribute to do any protection at all. So, at the end, you will pay RM150 monthly.

The RM100 portion, is called insurance premium and RM50 portion is called investment premium.

Bare in mind, all your paid premium is not 100% converted to units.

For investment premium (RM50), 95% = RM47.50 will be used to purchase units in the investment-link funds. This happen since day 1 until policy mature or until you decide to cancel this investment premium. The unallocated premium of RM2.50 is an upfront charge on the premium paid and is used to meet insurer’s expenses and direct distribution cost, including commissions payable to the agency/ wealth planner

For insurance premium (RM100), for the 1st and 2nd year 42.75% will be used to purchase units. Meaning only RM42.75 is used to purchase units. The unallocated premium is an upfront charge on the premium paid and is used to meet insurer’s expenses and direct distribution cost, including commissions payable to the agency/ wealth planner. From this RM42.75 is not totally yours. Remember there is insurance charges. So, the equivalent unit of insurance charges will be cancel from the equivalent unit of RM42.75. And there is also service charge and fund management fund. So at the end, your actual unit from insurance premium may be almost zero for the first few year (depending what protection you took) .

This is continue until year 7, where 95% for purchasing units, 5% to insurance company. At this stage, you can start see your cash value start growing. If you terminate your policy earlier, don't expect too much of cash value, especially if you are taking a medical card. Its insurance charges is huge. Until some point, the insurance charges for medical card will be more than your monthly premium. You will see at some point, your growing cash value is reducing until there is no more coverage for medical card.

If you take investment premium, you can see the cash value is growing from beginning because the allocation rate is higher (95%) and there is no insurance charges that need to be paid.

I hope this can clear the doubt.

This post has been edited by ajau: Aug 25 2010, 02:34 PM

Hope somebody here can answer my question.

I went for a check up on my severe headache and found out it related to my sinusitis, which doctor assume there is fluid accumulation in the forehead. He advised me to get a CT scan before he can diagnose me on what treatment I should undergo, medication or light operation.

Now, I doesn't have any medical policies with me as I just started working, I'm now looking at one company but there stated that:

Specified Illness occurring within the first 120 days of insurance of the Insured Person: (having sinuses in the list)

My question is, lets say I get this policy now, and I go for CT scan after 120 days, if doctor advise me to go for an operation, is my operation fees or even the CT scan claimable?

Nope if the doctor declare the date that the 1st time he diagnose you with the sinus symptom is before you get the policy or within 120 days of waiting period

This post has been edited by ajau: Aug 25 2010, 02:56 PM

i think for your case if you let the insurer know that you're going to do a CT scan soon for a specific problem, they might hold out on you until AFTER you're done with the scan.

however, if you pretend you didn't know you had the problem and get the insurance right now and do your CT scan 120 days later(if you think you can wait), you should be able to qualify for the claim. i'm not 100% positive on this one so don't take my word it, an agent might be able to explain better.

Yes, you can do that.

But the decision of the claim based on the form that doctor fill in to request for GL. The date when the 1st symptom occur is very important to determine if the insurance company will provide GL. Even if you wait until next year, but the doctor declare it happened to you a year ago, and the date the doctor declare is within 120 days of waiting period or before you buy the policy, you will not get the GL.

Also be careful with the word diagnosis. If the doctor fill in the form to admit you so that you can do CT Scan for diagnosis purposes, usually the insurance company will not provide GL. But if you still proceed and pay by yourself and the doctor decide to do surgery, you can claim the CT Scan cost provided it happen within pre-hospitalization period (usually 30-31 days).

But if the doctor decide to do medication, no admission to be hospitalized, then, you cannot claim the CT Scan and also the outpatient (medical) bill.

This post has been edited by ajau: Aug 25 2010, 03:21 PM

The risk of female type cancer is on the rise now hence these benefits would be covered at a premium cost.

In ILP, most of the time the type of benefit can be customized in type and amount according to your need and budget. Different company would show the same benefit in their own way to project uniqueness. To my understanding when the basic policy expires then so do the riders but new product innovation could probably alter this statement say by running on investment value etc.

Waivers are usually riders that expires at a predefined time say 65 or 70 etc as set by the agent.

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Added on August 25, 2010, 3:28 pmAs mentioned by Ajau, you shouldn't be able to claim as it falls on the exclusion list.

However by being unethical you can possibly get this covered by staying quiet for 120 days or more before proceeding to another doctor for this illness.


This post has been edited by HHalphaomega: Aug 25 2010, 03:28 PM

Thank you very much for you kind explanation and advise. I really appreciate it

ajau,

in a nutshell: allianz confused insurance / investment allocation in their own brochure? because the table seems to be pretty clear even though it didnt make any sense to me. if the people who sell those products get confused i would say its a bad sign

personally i'll never really understand why people who intend to cover a risk (health) do so by buying insurance that carries a new risk (investment value) and are willing to pay for adding this new risk as well. but i dont want to get into this again.

Kent3888,

PM you already. basically its the same what the rest said.

i'm not saying allianz confused people in their own broucher. What I mean is the way investment link product work regardless insurance company, quite complicated. Insurance premium, insurance charges. Allocation premium, investment, fund. Lots of jargon because it is all in one. Maybe need some time to educate public.

I'd to re-highlight, good things about investment link is it is flexible. You can add/remove benefit according to the stage of life which I personally find this is what make investment link interesting option.