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Discussion Football's wonderkids, Up and coming talents around the world

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Hevrn
post Feb 13 2009, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(blinky @ Feb 12 2009, 05:55 PM)
I agree with the rest of your points, but Portugese league is hardly the best place to nurture talents?

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Take a read at that article. Cristiano Ronaldo, Miguel Veloso, Joao Moutinho, Nani, Angel Di Maria etc.?

Contrary to your opinions, I think leagues like Portugese, German, Dutch or even the Argentinian are the best to breed youngsters. Top flight leagues like Serie A, La Liga and Premier League are places for these youngsters to go AFTER they've turned into world-class players.
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I guess you and I have very different criterias of which form a wonderkid. To me, a wonderkid is someone who's already a regular with a top side, and the best in his position at his young and tender age for both his club and country. Messi is a wonderkid. So were Pele, Giggs and Maradona. All of them broke into their respective teams before 20, and were among the best in the world. Thats what separates a wonderkid to a young talent imo. Take Anderson and Lucas for example. Both of them have not established themselves as first choice for club and country, hence they do not qualify as wonderkids in my book. Maybe there's a difference in how others define a wonderkid.

TSblinky
post Feb 13 2009, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(Hevrn @ Feb 13 2009, 10:02 AM)
I guess you and I have very different criterias of which form a wonderkid. To me, a wonderkid is someone who's already a regular with a top side, and the best in his position at his young and tender age for both his club and country. Messi is a wonderkid. So were Pele, Giggs and Maradona. All of them broke into their respective teams before 20, and were among the best in the world. Thats what separates a wonderkid to a young talent imo. Take Anderson and Lucas for example. Both of them have not established themselves as first choice for club and country, hence they do not qualify as wonderkids in my book. Maybe there's a difference in how others define a wonderkid.
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A wonderkid to me is a player with the right amount of coaching and playtime under him, has the potential to be a world-class player smile.gif

I don't think I regard Messi as a wonderkid, because he's already playing at the highest level.

Maybe we should listen to what the others have to say about their definition of a wonderkid smile.gif
Hevrn
post Feb 13 2009, 12:30 PM

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Yeah true. Even the definition of a world class player is a shoddy one. How do you rate world class? Top 5 in his position? A World Cup winner? A Player of the Year? Its a grey line in how ppl recognise certain players
matyrze
post Feb 13 2009, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(Hevrn @ Feb 12 2009, 05:12 PM)
Out of the many wonderkids to have arisen from across the continents, how many actually make it and become a truly world class player? America was raving over Freddy Adu, so much so that United even called him in for a trial. Sad to say, he didn't impress Ferguson one bit, and was not signed. I don't know whats happened to him now, but he isn't plying his trade in one of the big leagues.
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Yes, you are right Hevrn. And because of that, we have to know how can a young player be called 'wonderkid', and we should differ him with other players with huge potential. Because being 'wonderkid' is not merely having huge potential. He has to show the right character and determination. Freddy Adu is a good example. IMO, he never was a wonderkid. He is a young player with a huge potential, but he had a lot lot more to learn. Same goes to Fernando Cavenaghi. Highly hyped in Argentina for his goal scoring record, now he is only good enough for Ligue 1. My opinion, the examples of:
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verx
post Feb 13 2009, 03:03 PM

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I wouldn't consider Bojan in that list just yet. So far he hasn't really translated his previous form in the youth sides to the senior side. Busquets however has been a revelation for Barca this season.
ncool15
post Feb 13 2009, 03:33 PM

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How about Theo Walcott?A regular 1st team for Arsenal.He's just 20 this year.
Zan81
post Feb 13 2009, 03:45 PM

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I think people misuse the term "wonderkid" because of the Football Manager game's definition of wonderkid.

I suppose wonderkids in the real world should be limited to those really, really outstanding ones, like Leo Messi and I can't believe nobody has mentioned Cesc Fabregas!
Punish
post Feb 13 2009, 05:32 PM

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surprise nobody mention pato in this thread....ask SerieA fan who is pato and ull got your answer....for me this 19 year old Brazilian international is the best youngster in SerieA....scoring almost everygame....

one of his beauty
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GTG

This post has been edited by Punish: Feb 13 2009, 05:34 PM
kaka91
post Feb 13 2009, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(Zan81 @ Feb 13 2009, 03:45 PM)
I think people misuse the term "wonderkid" because of the Football Manager game's definition of wonderkid.

I suppose wonderkids in the real world should be limited to those really, really outstanding ones, like Leo Messi and I can't believe nobody has mentioned Cesc Fabregas!
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i guess nobody sees cesc as a kid anymore biggrin.gif captain kid..hehe.. i think pato deserves a mention. he's only 19 and he is doing well in ac milan.
matyrze
post Feb 14 2009, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(verx @ Feb 13 2009, 03:03 PM)
I wouldn't consider Bojan in that list just yet. So far he hasn't really translated his previous form in the youth sides to the senior side. Busquets however has been a revelation for Barca this season.
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Bojan did really well in his first season, when the likes of Eto'o, Henry, and Messi all had some problems with injuries. My video of him says how he performed last season. This season, Pep decided to protect him. That's why we couldn't see much of him this season.

QUOTE(Zan81 @ Feb 13 2009, 03:45 PM)
I think people misuse the term "wonderkid" because of the Football Manager game's definition of wonderkid.

I suppose wonderkids in the real world should be limited to those really, really outstanding ones, like Leo Messi and I can't believe nobody has mentioned Cesc Fabregas!
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Maybe people didn't state Messi and Cesc because of their age, 21 years and 8-9 months. TS want men under 21 years old brows.gif brows.gif Or maybe people just bored to mention their name laugh.gif laugh.gif

I must say Pato is the most promising among the players mentioned here, although he started off slowly in his Milan career.
ncool15
post Feb 14 2009, 02:21 AM

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QUOTE(Zan81 @ Feb 13 2009, 03:45 PM)
I think people misuse the term "wonderkid" because of the Football Manager game's definition of wonderkid.

I suppose wonderkids in the real world should be limited to those really, really outstanding ones, like Leo Messi and I can't believe nobody has mentioned Cesc Fabregas!
*
Well Cesc Fabregas is no longer considered a kid because he already have more than 200 apperances for the club.So that's like a 24-25 year old's experience.Plus he's already a captain at 21.

That is why his name not being mention.In Arsenal 21 is like one of the oldest squad member. biggrin.gif

Nasri(21)---Denilson(20)---Fabregas(21)---Walcott(19)

This post has been edited by ncool15: Feb 14 2009, 02:22 AM
qsp1985
post Feb 14 2009, 02:50 AM

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john fleck from rangers looks promising. was link to manutd a while ago
TSblinky
post Feb 14 2009, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(qsp1985 @ Feb 14 2009, 02:50 AM)
john fleck from rangers looks promising. was link to manutd a while ago
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He was dubbed "Scotland's Wayne Rooney".
verx
post Feb 14 2009, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(matyrze @ Feb 14 2009, 12:21 AM)
Bojan did really well in his first season, when the likes of Eto'o, Henry, and Messi all had some problems with injuries. My video of him says how he performed last season. This season, Pep decided to protect him. That's why we couldn't see much of him this season.
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I disagree. He was no Messi who at 18 was already running rings round defenders at La Liga level. He did reasonably well as a squad player. But if u consider that worthy to be called a wonderkid then there would be so many of them u can put in that list.
-Nos-
post Feb 14 2009, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Feb 14 2009, 11:55 AM)
I disagree. He was no Messi who at 18 was already running rings round defenders at La Liga level. He did reasonably well as a squad player. But if u consider that worthy to be called a wonderkid then there would be so many of them u can put in that list.
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If you expect everyone to be like Messi at 18, i wonder how many would be dubbed as wonderkid?
boxsystem
post Feb 14 2009, 12:28 PM

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Wonderkid - A young player with a hugh potential to be discovered. With the right amount of coaching, he could turn into WORLD CLASS PLAYERS.

Okay, IMO there is a thin line between Wonderkid and World Class Player here. For me, Messi is a wonderkid who turned into a World Class Player. Going around defenders at young age and cemented his place on starting 11.

Same can be said of C. Ronaldo, C. Fabregas and the list goes on.

So, again, IMO wonderkid doesn't have to be the NEXT world class player but someone with huge amount of talent. Raw and needs to be polished. (Wenger comes in mind, he is great at it.)

IMO, wonderkid that doesn't turn up to be an another world class players are Anderson, Lucas, Babel. Well, at least not yet.
TSblinky
post Feb 14 2009, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(boxsystem @ Feb 14 2009, 12:28 PM)
Wonderkid - A young player with a hugh potential to be discovered. With the right amount of coaching, he could turn into WORLD CLASS PLAYERS.

Okay, IMO there is a thin line between Wonderkid and World Class Player here. For me, Messi is a wonderkid who turned into a World Class Player. Going around defenders at young age and cemented his place on starting 11.

Same can be said of C. Ronaldo, C. Fabregas and the list goes on.

So, again, IMO wonderkid doesn't have to be the NEXT world class player but someone with huge amount of talent. Raw and needs to be polished. (Wenger comes in mind, he is great at it.)

IMO, wonderkid that doesn't turn up to be an another world class players are Anderson, Lucas, Babel. Well, at least not yet.
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Exactly how I defined wonderkid earlier on.



verx
post Feb 14 2009, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(-Nos- @ Feb 14 2009, 12:20 PM)
If you expect everyone to be like Messi at 18, i wonder how many would be dubbed as wonderkid?
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That is my point. Why should there be so many wonderkids? A wonderkid should be below 21 but is able to play at the highest level and be an unquestionable starter as well. Otherwise the "wonder" would be meaningless.


Added on February 14, 2009, 12:41 pmOk let me clarify myself. I'm not expecting kids to play at Messi's current level. That would be unrealistic. I'm just saying that for me a wonderkid has to be so good that it would be impossible to leave him out regardless of how young he is.

This post has been edited by verx: Feb 14 2009, 12:41 PM
boxsystem
post Feb 14 2009, 12:46 PM

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In a way, verx is kind of right as well.

The term 'wonderkid' is very subjective.



I guess, those who never managed to cement their place on starting 11 regularly, can be said as 'Potentials' only?

This post has been edited by boxsystem: Feb 14 2009, 12:47 PM
TSblinky
post Feb 14 2009, 12:53 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Feb 14 2009, 12:36 PM)
That is my point. Why should there be so many wonderkids? A wonderkid should be below 21 but is able to play at the highest level and be an unquestionable starter as well. Otherwise the "wonder" would be meaningless.


Added on February 14, 2009, 12:41 pmOk let me clarify myself. I'm not expecting kids to play at Messi's current level. That would be unrealistic. I'm just saying that for me a wonderkid has to be so good that it would be impossible to leave him out regardless of how young he is.
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But I think most of the players listed in this thread do play regular football for their respective team, albeit some of them not in the top leagues.

This post has been edited by blinky: Feb 14 2009, 12:53 PM

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