even 50uf can works on high pass. The value of high pass cap determine how much mid range down to bass send to the tweeter, not to make more higher treble.

A speaker crossover is actually a frequency divider and doing a balancing act. However you mod it will NOT extend the frequency range beyond the extent of the speaker design and potential. In practice you're altering its tone.

clarity, dynamics, bass response. 1st order, 2nd order , 3rd order filter. the circuit diagram is a 3 rd order XO.

i think i am going to have to convince you to do a series crossover, you can tweak easily by ear. thats how all my speakers have been done without any measuring equipment and software. but to a degree it is important to have the thiel/small parametres of the drivers themself to find out all the important things like the voice coil inductance, resistance, Vas, xmas, total Q this is when you can do the crossovers with calculations, and my philosophy! your ear is the best judge on what YOU like to hear, so dont let anybody persuade you differently from that, because of so called RULES of speaker making. yes the basics have to be adhered to but theres no fun if you can't break the rules sometimes.

i still think you need a higher value in your tweeter cap after the inductor as I suggested a while back. try a 14 uf as it is quite pointless having a C1 @6uf and then the third order cap @7uf after the inductor as the C2 cap is designed to lower the crossover slope either faster or slower. but having one nearly identical is just a waste of a cap in the signal path as far as i am concerned.if you dont have the 14uf to replace the 7uf just take it out and use the 2nd order electrical slope crossover, this will give you a lot better vocals as the slope is less and your tweeter will be taking up some of the work with the woofer around the 2khz to 5 khz range this will give some clarity and a more forward presentation in the vocals

let me know how you go.

My 6.8uF Jantzen cross cap is on the way. will try

1. parallel 2x6.8uF cap.
2. bypass 7uF i.e. 2nd order. (isnt that -12dB/octave and a much gentler slope than 3rd order which is -18dB/octave). All this while, my tweeter survice the -18dB slope.

The sifu of series crossover is cooking now. will get to it around the corner.

This post has been edited by ccschua: Jan 5 2009, 11:29 PM

thats correct the 2nd order is a much gentler slope giving the tweeter a little bit more work to do, but if you listen at sensible musical levels I would be surprised that anything would happen to the tweeter.
try it and see how it brings the vocals forward a bit more. start with the 14uf and you can decrease gradually. the other thing is Phase allignment which once you have found the correct value of the cap you can swap the positve and negative input to your tweeter to see which one is phase alligning with the woofer. and it is always good to sit your speakers back on an angle to get time allignment between the two drivers , i am sure it was designed in the original crossover but since we are playing with your new crossover you can try lots of different things to get them singing as you want.

regards

series crossover i tried it in my car before, quite interesting but abit harsh on the highs for me, didnt continue researching tho...

I also tried a series on my car, but unless you have really high quality drivers like scanspeak vifa i think it probably would sound a little harsh.

I tried it on my focals in my car and it sounded ok but i believe that an ordinary series crossover used in a car environment doesnt take into account the natural brightness of some car tweeters. So you probably needed to put a lcr network in there or Zoebel as I believe most car tweeters are fairly eratic on their natural frequency curve.
but realistically the series crossover is and should be used at home as they are renowned for there clear defined soundstage and imaging. where in a closed environment such as a car it would not be benificial as the sound stage collapses because of the limited space for the speakers to breathe.

my two sens worth.....

---

Added on January 6, 2009, 6:55 pmI am going to send you a series crossover with the solen caps i have for you also i have included some other caps for you to try including a brazilian made 8uf one. have no idea on how it sounds but it looks quite impressive.

If you like the series crossover then you can either keep it with a bartering of items or copy it and send it back to me when your ready.
of course not knowing the parametres of the drivers you have it will be a little bit of a guess as to how it will incorpaorate but i can guide you through the changing of values for the caps and the resistor between the + and - leg of the crossover.

I will get wifey to send in the next couple of days to the address you gave me before.

cheers


This post has been edited by chefsinc67: Jan 6 2009, 06:55 PM

That would be great. Now I am pampered with too many items. I just received some white sausage too.

Enjoy the Taiwan made white sausage

This post has been edited by GodLuvSxS: Jan 7 2009, 12:27 AM

Hi Chua

series crossover and solen caps on the way!

oh sorry i sent them before you got back to me regarding the 0.470uf caps so i did not send them but i did send some other solen caps including 2x 4.7uf and 2 x 6.8uf as well as the brazilian made 8uf caps. hope you enjoy the series crossover. when you hook it up let me know what it sounds like and i can guide you through any adjustments that you may need on the caps and the resistors.

let me know when our Jantzen crosscaps arrive from australia.


ps I will be in Kuching Next week for the opening of Sheraton four points, helping out so probabaly wont be online but if you need anything my handphone number is on the bottom of my email signature.

cheers

The cap just received. Again the Malaysia posmen is too lazy to wait for people to answer their call.

Dunno how to complain about my problem.

By tomorrow I would be able to receive the parcel.

---

Added on January 8, 2009, 11:48 pmoh nice.

got all the cap now.
the Jantzen and the solen.
plus the taiwan unknown cap.

---

Added on January 8, 2009, 11:55 pm

This post has been edited by ccschua: Jan 8 2009, 11:55 PM

To all the sifu here,

I've just bought a pair of used speakers; unfortunately, I didn't have chance to test it due to the seller sold off his amp when I bought the speakers.

The previous owner had left the speakers in store room over 1 year.
The speakers exterior looks perfect, including the woofer/ tweeter condition.

When I hooked it up at home, my God! The sound was so dull !!

No mid and high, only bass!

After re-run in about 30 hours now, the high is coming out now, but the mid (especially vocal part) still sound dull!

My question to all the sifu here is:

If there're any capacitors in the crossover circuit fails, what would be the possible consequence to the speaker sound?

In my case, could it be something wrong with the speakers' crossover?

Both speakers sounded the same! But I've heard the same model of this speaker before (Castle Severn II), it shouldn't sound so dull.

Help Sifus!

What I normally do is to bypass the crossover to see is there any different or not. To do that you need to locate where the crossover located, some on speaker box connector, some beside the box. You can unscrew the speaker to see the location clearly.

Another easy way to take out the speaker and connect direct using cable from your amp...

@ccschua,
you quote your own post lor....

This post has been edited by nordingh: Jan 9 2009, 02:36 PM

castle seven should not sound dull, they are regarded as some pretty good kit, as for possible issues we need to see them front back and inside with the crossover if possible.

once you have taken the pics post them on here and I can have a look at all areas that would be detrimental to the usual sound. it maybe as simple as some crossed wires or a crappy resistor/ capacitor in them, but as they are both the same maybe your source and amp are not up to running these speakers. please list all your equipment you are using also so it maybe the amp cd player etc.
I am happy to help after building so many speakers now i can share my thoughts and experience.

regards

i think you just need to run in >300 hours for amplifier and speaker which is much longer.
the speaker cone has hardened a little due to being idle so long as you describe 1 year or maybe longer.

give it some time..

For me, it is better to describe what is the setup. matching is always the first thing to check.

Thanks for all the sifu here

My setup as below:

1) CD Player : a) Denon DCD-S10 b) Primare D20
2) Pre-Amp: Musical Fidelity F22
3) Power Amp : Adcom GFA-555
4) Interconnect : VDH D102 MK III, Taralab Prism , Chords Cobra 3
5) Speaker cable: Chords Odyssey 4

Currently, I've another 3 pairs of speakers : Castle Harlech S2, Castle Richmond , Tannoy 705 Anniversary . All these 3 pairs of speakers don't sound dull at all in my system. My system even though is not extremely bright, but it definitely not mellow in sound.

The thing is, my Tannoy 705 had been sitting in my brother storeroom for 7 years , but when I tried it today, it had no such problem (dull sound).

Only the Castle Severn II got this problem. I really don't believe Castle Severn II is so dull in sound (in UK was listed at 599 or 699 pounds); for such a dull sound, nobody is going to buy it

I'll try to take some picture of the crossover tomorrow when I got the tools to open up the woofer / speaker terminals.

This post has been edited by billyngcam: Jan 10 2009, 11:34 PM

Open it and trace the circuit.

u should see the connection from input to output, tweeter and woofer. Normally more symtoms can be found if u check the cross over.

---

Added on January 11, 2009, 11:34 pmJust tested the Jantzen Cross Cap. I am surprise at how clean the sound is and very detail presentation. It is definitely good cap.

This post has been edited by ccschua: Jan 11 2009, 11:34 PM

All the Sifus,

I finally got time to open the speaker terminals to see the crossover.

Photos as below.

I tested it by connecting the bass unit directly to speaker cable , bypassing the crossover, and the speakers do sound bright enough!

So, now almost 90% confirm the problem is with the crossover. Either the factory pre-set it like that, or something not working correctly. But the strange thing is, both side of the speakers sounded the same.... can both speaker crossover spoil at the same time kah? So lucky?

Now, my headache start..... Sifus, how to check which component fail?

At the end of the day, if, just if, nothing is wrong with the crossover, how or where can I modify the crossover to make it sound brighter?

thanks in advance bro!





This post has been edited by billyngcam: Jan 13 2009, 06:06 PM