This thread is for all of us forumers to debate on existing misunderstandings on how the iPhone forum is being utilised. I feel that there is a big gap between the regulars/old timers here (the ones who log in nearly everyday/the ones who have been around for a long time) and those who come by once in a blue moon when there is a need. Both parties are unable to relate with each other's frustrations given the different experiences that we have in the iPhone forum.

Apart from settling our differences, it would very nice if you could also contribute constructive ideas on how to improve the usability of the forum. For example, I am in the process of revamping the old iPhone for Dummies pinned thread so maybe you could share with me on how the old guide worked or didn't work for you.

Please keep the discussion clean and please do not resort to personal attacks with references to what one forumer posted last week in a different sub forum or how a forumer is a MOD wannabe, how he did this before and etc. Thank you guys.

To start off the discussion, I am sure some of you have popped over to read the discussions at ( http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/868017 ) which started the trouble brewing again just yesterday. If you haven't read all the posts in there yet, you would not know the source of the rebutts I am going to make now.

In response to V3000's post #15 in that thread, I PMed him privately. In light of fx2800's post #24, I will republish my PM as I feel it explains the bigger picture somewhat:

---

Hi V3000,

How are you doing?

I agree with you, the forum is for open discussions. I am also able to see what you mean by when some people simply come in and replies "Do you really need to open a new thread for this?" Sometimes I agree with the comment and sometimes I will not agree with that comment depending on the situation.

If you noticed in the particular thread, davidgary73 did tiao the TS for not having the intiative to Google the question beforehand but he also gave him a lot of information in regards to his question and even pointed him in the right direction. In this case, I don't think your response of "How come soo many Mod wannabe here?" was warranted at all. Someone like davidgary73 has put in a lot of effort and time into helping others in the iPhone forum. He really does not deserve to have a comment like that thrown to him in such a manner.

Do you really think that the "Moderator" status is so important to davidgary73? It isn't. The sifus in here share their knowledge for the love of helping others not to gain recognition. There is no fame or money in doing this. At the same time, the sifus don't want forumers to be overly dependent on the forum for answers hence pinned threads such as the Dummies Guide and READ ME Before Posting exist. And who pins these threads up? The Moderators do. And why? Because the Moderators realises that all this helps improve the user experience in the forums.

I'm not sure if you realise what happens behind the scenes at all. Which is why I expressed my disappointment in your choice to say what you said without looking at the big picture first. If you really do respect people, you would at least try to figure out all points of views first before passing judgement.

I have no reason to report you to the mods nor to ignore you as I have said before I do not think you have done anything wrong. I just think you made a poor choice of judgement.



Maverick Wil


---

The reason we try to get forumers to adhere to certain guidelines when using the iPhone forums is simple. It is not to be authoritarians or to restrict conversation/banter/discussion. Being very active and long time participants, the old timer forumers know that discussion is unavoidable in a forum. It is what the forum exists for. HOWEVER, repeated questions over and over again in new threads cannot be considered constructive discussion. Instead, it becomes a waste of resources. This week alone, I am pretty sure there were 4 new threads opened up by new forumers asking "What are the features of the iPhone". It varies slightly of course with questions like "Is it worth it to get an iPhone?", "Difference btwn iPhone 2G/3G?", etc etc.

These are standard questions that have been answered in the best detail possible on the pinned threads. For problems that require updated solution (aka not so standard), the pinned threads itself points you to relevant threads where you can discuss the problem in a centralised environmenrather than having to refer to ten different half arsed threads. If you find your problem is not so standard, by all means go ahead and create a new thread if after using the search function, you don't seem to find a solution. No one will flame you for it. However, this is not what we are seeing. What we are seeing is people coming in and ignoring all previous existing efforts already put forth in existing threads (pinned or not pinned) and goes to open a brand new thread just for themselves. They don't do their research, they don't care to search first, no! they just expect to be spoonfed the answer.

This is number one very frustrating for the forumers who are here all the time to help. If you are here everyday and in one week you have to type out the same answer to the same questions 3, 4, 5 or 6 times over and over again, you would know how it would feel. It is an abuse of the helpful forumer's good will. Number two is these new threads mess up the forum. When discussions on the same topic occur all over the place, poor quality threads are created and this ruins the forumer's user experience. This is opposed to creating high quality threads by centralising discussions. Take for example if you were to come in one day trying to look for a discussion on iPhone casings. Ok, it's not on the pinned thread. Fine. You do a search. F*ck! 20 threads on iPhone casings? Some are 20 pages long, some are 2 pages long etc etc. Where are you supposed to discuss about the case?! You end having to go through 20 different case threads to find out the highest quality discussion before even getting to talk about cases.

Now imagine if most of us had some discipline to keep discussions on casings in one thread. Ok maybe some new extremely ignorant or extremely newbie forumers may make the mistake of opening a new thread once in a blue moon. That can still be controlled by experienced forumers directing them to the relevant post and getting them to close the thread. And take note old timers, all you have to do is prepare a standard reply like "You can find the information bla bla at this existing discussion link. Thank you, please do read the pinned threads on how to best use the iPhone forums. Voila. Simple. We educate the new ones.

That would be ideal of course but nooo some of them argue back with you. Worst thing is when these folks are experienced forumers with senior titles or those who have seen enough foruming days (not in the iPhone section but some other sections). They don't take the time to appreciate all the existing work that has been done before b*tching about how discussions are restricted etc. By doing so, it is a huge disrespect to all those who have contributed so much of their time and effort before you came along. It's like spitting in their face for telling you that they already have put the answers in the pinned threads or wherever and then you still need them to answer you damn question. It's ridiculous. It's a spoiled brat behaviour.

Anyways, to rebutt one more point by fx2800 and all those who keep bringing up the MOD wannabe issue. fx2800, you seem to imply that no one but the MODs should be regulating what is being done in the forum. Yes, that is true. They are MODs for a reason because they are the one enforced to guide the forumers. Yet on the other hand, you say that I quote "i dun expect myself to be looking in the PINNED thread or something..". This is where you are wrong. The well meaning forumers like davidgary73 may take the time and effort to compile something like the iPhone for Dummies guide but if a MOD does not agree that it will be helpful to the forum, those threads will not be pinned. The MODs are the ones who pins the damn threads because he/she expects you to read them before anything else. So you should read them!

Ok. That is my two cents for now. Note that I'm not trying flame anyone like fx2800. I am using his posts to be rebutted as to drive the point home. I respect that we all have different opinions and those opinions are to be shared.

errm i have a small suggestion... hope it helps

currently in iPhone section well we do have enough thread like iPhone for Dummies and Pwnage thread to help the users...

the problem is that every new user will sure have their question, and most of those new user with question are those who doesnt do the homework before getting hands on, whats more they dont know where is the proper place to post the question since they did not do their homework

rather than keep redirecting them to the proper thread... can we make it a proper Q&A places? for example like a place for Ultra Noob Q&A Section like the 1 in LYN Hardware Question and Answer section?? iPhone for Dummies thread is a good Q&A places, but does not seem much of the new user will go there 1st...

or maybe give a proper name for iPhone for Dummies thread? coz the name does not "attract" much of the "dummies" to come and read...

hope it helps... and peace

hmm maybe can ask mods to delete those irrelevant threads/ questions by n00b that never do homeworks?

it can prevent from innocent user being flamed..

i for once thinks that the threads that got pinned are of no use.
people just don't utilise them.

i think dummies and iphone club thread should be unpinned..dummies for the relevant questions and iphone club for all-the-other relevant spams.

@elico

The problem with having a free for all Q&A section is that the answers and questions will once again be all over the place instead of in the relevant threads. I agree with the fact that no matter how small a problem is, there will still be ppl who will want to discuss the problem. It is natural and in fact more easier to talk about the problem.

I was actually talking with davidgary about this yesterday and suggested for the new Dummies Guide, we create new threads for each commonly asked problem. The existing Dummies Guide pointed to solutions all over the forum making it hard for discussion. Some solutions didn't even have their own threads so there was no specific place for discussion as well. Discussing it in the Dummies thread is also not very practical because as a few forumers have pointed out before, who actually goes through all the hundreds of posts to find a solution? It is a cumbersome task because there is no organised manner of the posts in the Dummies thread itself. Even I don't usually do that if the search function fails me.

Furthermore if users don't do their homework in the first place, why would they would actually go to the Q&A section? They probably wouldn't even notice it.

On names, I am open to suggestions for renaming the upcoming Dummies guide to something easier to comprehend like "iPhone Beginner's Guide" or what not. I think you are right on that matter. In fact, the current proper Q&A avenue is actually the "iPhone Club" pinned thread but the name doesn't explicitly explain that it is a Q&A thread.

This post has been edited by Maverick Wil: Dec 8 2008, 01:46 AM

Perhaps, all junk/spam threads can be merged into one so called "Junk/Spam Threads"... so that the forum will look more organized. Yet, this can only be done by MOD.

And, these "categories" should be useful if forumers give full co-operation.
** Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) -> can compile from Q&A thread
** Question & Answer (General)
** Guide & Self-Learning
** Tips & Tricks
** Apps & Games

Cheers.

actually... wonder the developer of this forum (wkkay i think?) put out an extra feature on the topic
which is blinking!!!
mean make the iphone for dummies or QnA topic blinking and sharp enuff?
most of them come in and they just read throught 1st page n din read the pinned 1

and you wanna know y some of them din read the pinned thread?

coz for some other section like kopitiam, real world issue
the pinned thread is "rules and regualtion" or "warning for unrelated issue" or such, mostly is rules or guide on forum direction instead of the useful topics

so in order to prevent those nonsense or bull crap, we have to find a way for those helpful topic to stand out or sharp enuff for those N*** to notice =/

@friends & CooLeRthings

- We've got Apps & Games quite nicely set up now by baronic. One for reviews and one for discussion.

- We have Tips & Tricks pretty well set up as well.

- Question and Answer is provided under iPhone Club at the moment but for me personally, we like to talk cock (everyday chit chat and updates on the iPhone/Apple scene) in there as well. Maybe we could continue to talk cock in that thread since it is a "club" and set up a separate thread just for Q&A? Anyone up for the challenge?

- Guide & Self-Learning < Maybe I could rename the Dummies Guide to something along these lines? Anymore recommendations?

- IMO bro friends, your pinned thread (the ReadMe Before Posting one) could be turned into an FAQ given it's current format? Maybe a name change is also in order? Do you think you could do a revamp on that thread?

Maybe we can work something out with all the first posters of all the pinned threads to standardise the format of our titles? And maybe once we get everything revamped, as mentioned by bro CooLeRthings, we could ask for a "rules and regulation" type of box to be placed right on top to remind forumers to read the pinned threads and do the recommended steps (search, etc) before opening a new thread? Maybe give it a friendlier name than r&r?

This post has been edited by Maverick Wil: Dec 8 2008, 02:33 AM

lol
you get my idea wrong
some of the forumer they always hang out at real world issue, or other forum topic, which their pinned thread is rules and regulation
which lead them to this thinking that, those pinned thread is just rules, not helpful topics,
since they got this kinda mindset, they come in here just read those that below the pinned thread and miss out
they read the 1st page n found non of what they want, then they open a new thread
i think this is how those ppl do....

Oh yea, that is true as well I guess.

I remember seeing one sub forum with a red announcement bar kind of thing right at the top which we could prob use. Forgot which section it is...

This post has been edited by Maverick Wil: Dec 8 2008, 02:41 AM

hey guys... 2 days not on the net and the worlds going upside down...!!! hahahahaha..

just want to say something.... i've only been here for the past 3 months actively...but for the past months tht iv'e been here, i saw a really drastic change here in the forum....
before loads of ppl just came here and flood this forum opening a new thread and asking the same question all and all over again.... but i realize since dave arrange the sticky thread and such.... i find tht there's not much new thread open now....

it worked... only some ppl who didnt read or just really wanted to open new thread only open it....

what im trying to say is.... what ever did the old timers and dave, nokia2003, frozzbyte, and everyone who are otai and regulars did to the forum... works!!!

it damn works....

wow i support blinking pinned thread, which actually i think will do !! since many sifu waste alot time n effort there, no use if no one read it....as if sifu redirect it to the pinned thread, i found it very good, as new ts no need keep ask n they can come back here n read the pinned thread ^^

maybe can open a thread just for discussion for iphone like kopitiam, i saw here most flamed thread were those ts asking about "no answer" question like this or this nice, that or that good, is more subjective..

most sifu here like technical stuff more that kopi chit chat....if TS can assign the thread according to level will be great...like lvl 1 topic- for simple n not urgent answer, lvl 2 - moderate-technical-improvement and lvl 3- emergency !! so most sifu can help at lvl 3, and can redirect then at lvl 1 or 2 if they wan.....but i not sure can work or not

sometimes i feel sorry for some ts being flame , sometimes i feel is right as ts asking some funny question haha..

p/s: not pin-pointing anyone....just suggestion

Hey that's pretty cool. How are you going to go about doing it?

haven't gone through all the posts, but to make iphone forum a better place, just very simple - a hardworking moderator is needed, along with unbiased thinking and good attitude. just that simple.

A few heads are better than one.

the fact is, you can't possibly prevent old member from flaming noobs, and you can't prevent noobs from posting noob questions again and again either.

i've been to many other international forums, although newbie problems are not as frequent, but there're still many noob questions asked. all mod have to do is to lock the thread. if he still don't understand why the thread is locked, and post again multiple times, the member will restricted from posting anything for a period.

as far as i can see, iphone forum is not as active as other sections, so my opinion is 1 mod is enough for the task.

True but another fact is the mod is not as active as the forum. It would be nicer if everyone chipped in a bit of common sense and helpfulness. That way we don't have to rely too much on the mod all the time. It's not like we pay him to do his job. He can only do so much. I get what you are trying to say anyways. It is in an unfortunate way more realistic as to what I'm trying to advocate.

This post has been edited by Maverick Wil: Dec 8 2008, 05:08 PM

haha, i don't know..ask mod maybe? possible?

I have a suggestion.
If you feel like you need to ask a question and you prefer not to search or google the subject first, PM the sifus, but not evrytime, spoonfeeding is not the solution. You also need to learn to use the Net to help you out and in the process of doing that you learnt new things as well adding to your knowledge. The beauty of the iphone unlike other phones is that it gives you endless possiblilities to explore. I had many phones before especially the PDA Phones, they did not pose much challenge in terms of exploration compared to the iphone.

unfortunately, this is a public forum. anyone can register, anyone can post. there's no restriction. a mod is a must, gaining access to moderate a post or topic, or even give warnings and temporary silence or even banning. there's no other way, you simply can't stop anyone posting anything.

i don't expect mod to be active all the time. like, login once everyday, for 10 mins. or, login every 2 days, and moderate topics everytime he/she login. if the current mod is not too active, vote another one.

from my experiences, there're no other way other than moderators.

again u did not read my post
i did said might can ask the developer of this forum, which is wkkay i suppose to help out with this 1....

But but but... I was asking jimnuz as in how is he going to code it or what not. Hey no fair.

i got one excellent suggestion. now with the help of ajax. by typing in the "Subject" field in the new post. you can display an autocomplete box which searches iphone dummies post for relevant terms. if the subject has a 80% match in the search , then the poster will be denied from posting and instead redirected to the relevant post.

of course this will require modification in the forum system itself. but its very plausible and the technology is there.

i done several ajax applications before, and this is not hard to achieve.

That would be a very cool function. It would work even better if forumers post clear understandable topic titles as well. LYN Internet 2.0 ...hear hear

This issue has been discussed many times if I'm not mistaken.

but the problem is still going.

So it is time to actually put the discussions into action. On my side, I am working on the new iPhone Guide (Dummies) and will be doing so for the next few days. Hopefully the new guide will be more accessible and even clearer to understand. With that hope people will come to rely on self help rather being spoonfed. I don't reckon a lot of forumers purposely make the mistakes ...just that they are not aware of the resources in place because the information is not organised to it's maximum potential. A lot of the newcomers realise this once we point them to the right resource and proceed to close their threads accordingly. This is based on my personal observation.

I sincerely hope that those who have spoken out thus far can follow through to implement their fantastic ideas.

We can't expect 0% mistakes but at least we can try to minimise the problem. I see a lot of regulars stop coming by already because the forum has failed to provide a good enough user experience due to so many repeated mistakes being committed.

This post has been edited by Maverick Wil: Dec 8 2008, 10:17 PM

a lot of them reg-in, post new thread and gone.

all we can do is hit the report button.
done.

ha ha. then we will labeled as a moderator wannabe!


anyway i cannot give a tiny rat a$$ about this subforum anymore. the only reason that i'm still patronising here is because i'm bored and it's a habit to do so.

That's usually how the regulars start disappearing eh bro nokia. The annoyance sets in and you also eventually get sick of it all.

My sentiments exactly! Plus other niggling issues like glorifying jailbreaking and ridiculing/belittling those who wanted to stay virgin. But since I belong in the minority here, I chose to zip it and watch from the distance. Lazy already explaining and talking about it ,over and over and over again.

Yes... when you tried to be kind to lend out your hands, and eventually you are being labelled as "MOD Wannabe"... ON and OFF you will feel uncomfortable and irrespect from others... I don't you neither of us would like to be labelled or quoted as that, will ya ?

Moreover, the very first issue happened here is, nobody even care to look at the PINNED thread
even it is full of very useful information.

To me personally, it is all about individual's mentality and their own mindsets... other than that, none of us could do much about it.

Btw... subject with quote such as [ Help ], [ Urgent ], [ Guide ] and etc. is very useful and looks neat for forumers to find/search.

im here only to help and gain information.
nothing more nothing less.
and im here 24 hours reading dilemma day by day, poor soul seeking help and so on without even replying anything only if necessary.
we help people here and they should help them self too.

Gengstapo,

Excellent suggestion, I actually find myself reading less and less in this iphone forum at lowyat.net. Just a few quick draw flamer on the loose but I am glad that there are a lot more GREAT SIFU around.

Yes I know that the forum must be regulated but isn't that the job of the moderator. How does one rate a new posting being a STUPID question, SILLY question.

It maybe silly or 100% STUPID to some but NOT to some newbies who just heard about lowyat.net and maybe a first time forum users, I believe may not know how to navigate a forum properly so how do we expect so much from them. I too myself have even open new thread that in less than a minutes was told that AHEM.... AIYAH MAN this one already talk about lah... why YOU OPEN NEW THREAD..... for me I manage to close the posting but for some they do not even know how to close it then many more jumps in and on and on it goes. Isn't that just as bad as opening a new thread.

jackdon
now Iphone 2G firmware 2.2 and it is GREAT

in other word, we're going round and round and still back to the initial point - we still need an active mod, or at least 2 mods to share the effort.

anyway i haven't been active in this forum for a while, so i wonder since when the mod-wannabe thing happened. for me, i'd vote some of the senior member as a mod.

No thanks, blinkenlights will look tacky.

I'll be watching this topic, so keep your suggestions pouring forwards

I think a subsection for Help & Support is needed so that the General discussion section will be clean from spams/flames/annoying questions ..

And in such way, user who likes to read interesting stuff like me will not have to go thru tons of pain-in-the-ass topics that have been asked a zillions times ..

gud luck guys..i'll be watching n waiting..
although im no sifus,,but me too,now not active in this forum..only once in a while to on..thats why im outdated to upgrade to 2.2.
sry if my reply is not useful enough as a suggestion.
im just giving my views..

It feels more and more like a "Kaunter Pertanyaan" or "Apple Unofficial iPhone Helpdesk" than a discussion forum (and places for drama swasta). A forum is a place of discussion and information sharing but what I can see now, people come, ask question, demand for a quick answer and cabut faster that a speeding bullet without contributing back or reporting back the result.

The attitude of 'Noobs' where they want fast answers but don't want to read the pinned thread first is the main issue. Malaysians (most of it) are just plain lazy when it comes to reading.

Wah.. so tired read the 2 page comment and suggestion..

@Maverick Wil

IMO, to improve this iphone forum, u must :

1. List down the major problem happen before thats causing this forum to make changing for improvement. For example: to many FAQ thread open (maybe).

2. After listing down, then we can discuss on how to settle it 1 by 1. (how to give opinion without knowing the problem)

3. And after that we can find the solution to change the system or anything.

Just giving my opinion.

---

Added on December 9, 2008, 7:51 pmMalaysians (most of it) are just plain lazy when it comes to reading. <-- including me.

---

Added on December 9, 2008, 7:53 pmProblem 1: People lazy to read

This post has been edited by Buzza: Dec 9 2008, 07:53 PM

i got an idea..y dun we set like need sum requirements to open a new thread..say minimum number of post..coz oni those newcomers openin useless threads rite.. so by doin dis, they wil haf to post and read alot..by dat time sure they paham the know hows of lowyat rite..haha..=D

Great idea, no voice so cannot ask.

or maybe we just dedicate this sub forum for a few sifu to chat while we noobs can only watch at the sideline and hopefully they ask question that we are trying to ask.

jackdon

I agree with ur suggestion. Let the pro/sifu/master helping people and the other just reading and watching. No such post like smilies or something useless allowed. I think mod or sifu should take part to "sound" such member that just posting but not helping or giving opinion on how to solve the prob.

I dunno, I don't like the idea of voice. Everyone should be free to speak in the same area. Anyways, who is going to determine who is sifu and who is not? Not a very fair system IMO.

Anyways, I'm nearly done with the new Dummies Guide which I have renamed to something more generic. "Malaysian iPhone Users Guide or MiPUG for short. Found a lot of potential re-editing for certain solutions while re-constructing the guide but that will be long term I guess.

Too tired to think now after pulling an all nighter but have a few ideas in my head. Maybe later...

You've done a great job there Maverick.

I was wondering if we could make a thread for Iphone accecories(headsets, battery charging pack, etc.) review.
We already have iphone case discussion thread though.

Might be an interesting topic.

This post has been edited by Kazachok: Dec 11 2008, 04:03 PM

Thnx.

Well there is a HUGE case discussion thread already. IMO headsets, battery charging packs and the other accessories don't garner that much discussion but maybe you could start a quality accessories review thread first if you're really keen? And if there is a lot of interest, that could branch out with its own discussion thread.

Just like what happened with the iPhone apps/games. Initially it was all in one thread (reviews and discussion). Eventually bro baronic cleaned it all up and separated it into two different threads as what you can see in the pinned ones now.

The mods here know nothing about iPhones. They will not be able to help much.

After such long discussion, what has the mods or admin done to help this subforum? I don't see progress leh.

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 26 2008, 12:27 PM

Hmmmm... TripleH,

I have read some of the stickies and sometimes I still do not understand, I then turn to this forum to ask. So I am consider a BODOH.....

Bahhh.....

We cannot stop noobs from asking but as we so call "FRIENDLY Malaysian" could refrain from calling names and posting remarks about U BODOH LAH u are not fit to use an iphone lah.... that is giving this forum a bad name.

We should take Chinamobile suggestion, ignore the thread if you think it is a BODOH question and read the next one. No need to show the whole world how good a SIFU you are.

jackdon

I'm no sifu and i learn lot's from the pinned thread. So why can't you or others? I guess you're not here often and all you can do is to correct ppl from correcting others.

Also, everything on pinned thread is English..how hard is it to read?

So noobs is allowed to post new thread just becuase

1) thier phone has no sound on the right speaker?

2) Is the speaker stereo?

3) how to jailbreak?

4) got wifi?

5) how to use bluetooth?

6) Can forward SMS?

and they keep asking again and again when answer already on pinned thread ah?

Why don't you and chinamoblie take sometime to answer all these question when they are posted and i would like to see how long both of you can last.

Good..then i don't have to help and leave it to you both since you're so friendly and don't mind answering all these noobs.

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 26 2008, 07:27 PM

lets look at the guys at PDA section

This is their pinned threads




and look at this typical thread of a user asking setting for mms 3g

how how they replied.



http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/874555




any 1 notice a new pin 23 dec

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/884548


love the last part.



This post has been edited by chinamobile: Dec 28 2008, 12:59 AM

Hey chinamobile, why don't you make more time here and answers all noobs questions? Since we're not doing a good job, you show us the way and we follow. Be the first example to us and then we can follow thru.

And let me ask you something?

a) What are pinned threads for?

b) So noobs is allowed to post new thread just becuase

1) thier phone has no sound on the right speaker?

2) Is the speaker stereo?

3) how to jailbreak?

4) got wifi?

5) how to use bluetooth?

6) Can forward SMS?

and they keep asking again and again, opening new threads when answers already on pinned thread ah?

Please answer if you can.

Also, Baronic is there to close threads as he is incharge..we don't have a designated mod.

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 28 2008, 01:10 AM

are you giving me a test?

Sorry, did not meant to be a test. Just want to know how you go about those questions when noobs keep asking when the pinned threads have answers. Seriously, we would like to know.

Atleast teach us how to go about lor. You say we are rude and not polite. So whats the best way?

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 28 2008, 01:30 AM

Phone Purchase Guide by Maverick Wil Click Here
iPhone Ver 2.2 is out and Guide to JB your Iphone by davidgary73 Click Here
iPhone Tips n Tricks by MIKELEE Click Here
Should you buy a LOCK or Offically UNLOCK IPHONE 3G Click Here

something like that

This post has been edited by chinamobile: Dec 28 2008, 01:28 AM

That's usually what most of us will do.

But what i'm trying to point out is some ppl post question without reading the pinned thread or google for answers. So is that the excuse to open new thread and is it fair to Maverick, davidgary73, nokia2003 etc when they spent so much time to produce good infos for us to refer while noobs just don't read them? Some even say they lazy to read pinned threads leh..

The problem here is noobs attitude of not reading the pinned thread lor..how to overcome this? Any ideas chinamobile?

I have been following this iphone forum since 4 months ago and have seen davidgary73 and maverick tried to make changes here but what happens? Still the same leh.

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 28 2008, 01:38 AM

you see how well this went.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/888244

he will definitely be back..

Yes..that's good. But let's say if there's 5 threads of this on a day, how would you feel if you make a thread full of infos and none of them read when your thread is pinned with sufficient answers? Would you lose faith or you'll ask yourself why are they not reading the pinned thread?

Let take the example you posted.

If he read this pinned thread on Section 'B' : General Tweaks & Localising Your iPhone:

Will he ask the question he ask or even open new thread. Obviously he did not read t all. This is what i'm trying to point out to you the whole time bro.

What are the pinned threads for if everyone open new thread? Better not to have pinnned thread kan? Waste of energy/time for those who made the pinned thread.

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 28 2008, 01:51 AM

bro student become sifu 1 day.
And hopefully they will stay and contribute.

about the pinned thread

if you have zero idea about iPhone
reading the title of the pin may not give a clear direction.

This post has been edited by chinamobile: Dec 28 2008, 01:55 AM

I agree with you 100% but something must be done to make noobs read pinned threads but how?

i have been to some forum. new member

my first visit to a certain room .

there was a pop up.

directing to list of pin thread with more then 2 line details.
more like a summary of the threads.
which i find was
very helpful

Yes..some forums does that but i don't think this will be implemented here at all.

If i'm zero in knowing the iPhone, then i do my homework by reading the pinned thread kan? Also, the pinned thread is not that hard to read and all in English ma. How can one not get a clear direction leh on reading pinned thread?

This is not hard to read lor..

[GUIDE] Malaysia iPhone User Guide (MiPUG) The self learning and self help resource

[GUIDE] iPhone Purchase Guide - Your road to iPhone Ownership

Pwnagetool/Quickpwn(Mac & Win) & 3G Unlock »2G/3G Fw 2.2 Unlocking & Jailbreaking«

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 28 2008, 05:47 PM

Chinamobile, a super good example of a senior not reading pinned thread lor..

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/889028

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/876169

This post has been edited by TripleH: Dec 28 2008, 05:49 PM

Hey guys, just bring this thread up to ask some questions regarding minor improvement in the forum.

1) Is the pinned thread helpful or too cluttered? Which pinned thread you think is not relevant?

2) Which you prefer for new open thread?

a) Close thread or merge it to relevant topic/thread?

b) New threads that needs answers will be left open till TS finds one. If answers provided by forumers helped TS to troubleshoot, thread will be given 1-6hrs of grace period to close by TS and a pm will be send to TS, asking to close the thread. Forumers can ask TS to close thread immediately. If TS fail to close after the grace period, the thread will be close by mods. Is this fine with you guys? Need longer grace period?

3) Do we need a Rules and Regulation post/Thread? Don't have to be a thread in itself as i can post it in one of the pinned threads. Suggestions?

Do suggest your ideas and see how we can go about making slight changes to this forum. If you have other suggestions to improve the forum, do chip in.

Thanks

Cheers

This post has been edited by davidgary73: Mar 10 2009, 04:00 PM

gotta have a standard rules that over rule everything regarding the sub-section. ie. no cracked apps discussion

pinned threads are too crowded d.
me thinks everything should be taken down except for
Please README BEFORE POSTING
iPhone Tips 'n' Tricks
[GUIDE] Malaysia iPhone User Guide (MiPUG)
[GUIDE] iPhone Purchase Guide

and take down the mod announcement as well, thats sufficient for three days
i'm gonna close it now

Very cool. Thanks Hanxz. Took down Winterboard and the "unnessasary" thread..

As for the Apps reviews, they seems to be useful unless majority vote to unpin them. Do let me know if it stays pin or unpin.

kinda agreed with what bro Hanxz suggest. but i've some to add.

1. apps review can stay but i think most would resort to getting reviews from other sites and they are more updated. that's what i usually do.


2. iPhone exist as an sub-section of a forum rather than a thread on itself, unlike those in Phone-Specific Discussion. therefore, creation of new topics should be allowed actually. agree with the implementation of this:

b) New threads that needs answers will be left open till TS finds one. If answers provided by forumers helped TS to troubleshoot, thread will be given 1-6hrs of grace period to close by TS and a pm will be send to TS, asking to close the thread. Forumers can ask TS to close thread immediately. If TS fail to close after the grace period, the thread will be close by mods. Is this fine with you guys? Need longer grace period?

3. topics like these should be left in normal discussion thread rather than always pop out as a topic on its own:

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/960207
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/960198

4. this is needed to educate forumers and newbies on how things work here:

3) Do we need a Rules and Regulation post/Thread? Don't have to be a thread in itself as i can post it in one of the pinned threads. Suggestions?

This post has been edited by teikwing: Mar 10 2009, 05:47 PM

hi, lemme give my opinion...

i'm a noob when it comes to iphone. Just got one 2 months ago. Before i even bought the iphone i started reading the pinned threads by maverick wil namely the iphone purchase guide and the MiPUG.
I would like to thank Maverick and also some of the seniors here who spent time creating and maintaining these pinned threads...
by reading those threads i got a better idea of what i was getting and most of my questions were answered in those thread itself!

I believe for many of us we buy the iphone for normal daily use. Not many of us will really go all out on modding the iphone especially if u're a newbie, so how hard can it be to find the general answers in the pinned thread? And i'm sure if u're into modding diff aspects of ur phone u're not the only one and certainly not the 1st one, most of the time somebody will have already covered it in the discussion section right? a simple search will give u ample information.. and if finally u really can't find the answer i'm sure nobody's gonna flame u for opening a new thread...

I think that most of the important information like differences between 2G/3G iphone, setting up itunes acc, caller ID fix, custom ringtones and sms tones, transfering video to youe phone etc have all been answered in the pinned threads... I had those questions in my mind even b4 i bought the iphone and i found the thread very useful and not too hard to follow.
Anyway i think my conclusion is: Getting an iphone in Malaysia is a little bit complicated coz it's not really officially available here so of coz it needs a little bit of tweaking to make it more usable over here. So i think if you want to use this good piece of technology from Apple it wouldn't hurt for you to do some homework beforehand...

that's it for now... keep up the good work!

Taken down apps/games reviews as we do resort to outside sources.

For new threads, some threads will be left open till solution is found but for some simple thread, merging to related thread would be a good option.

As for rules and regulations, a thread by it self or a post in one of the pinned threads? For example http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/868281

This post has been edited by davidgary73: Mar 10 2009, 06:10 PM

1st question thou.... how can we make the people (especially) the new forumers to read the pinned thread....

lately ive seen lots of repeated questions and never close it when they got an answer....

if we can make this new forumers read the sticky thread... then we can go to another phase...

thats my comment lah....,

In a forum like this, there will be boundless opinions and different ways of looking at things.

One quick way, attempt at least, to alleviate repeated questions is to have categories pinned for forumers to go to when putting up a thread/post. Examples would be Software, Hardware, etc., etc.

Don't know whether this will help cut out the repeated queries and cluttered threads but anyone wanting to ask a pertinent question relating to say Software would/should logically read up what were posted first before doing so and if the answer is already there then he/she would not need to anymore.

This also encourages people to read/search as they can just zoom in to the topic of query which would then be less of a hassle.

We can never stop people from opening threads. Some just don't read. Hard to make people read when they prefer not.

As for new threads, you can either ignore the thread or give your comments. Or you can report them.

Another way is to let it go down the post till next page. If the thread has no answers in 24hrs, i'll close it or merge it in iPhone Club v8. What you guys think?

---

Added on March 10, 2009, 6:53 pmIndeed a great idea with the Software and Hardware thread. With the [GUIDE] Malaysia iPhone User Guide (MiPUG), most infos required are in there. We made it for this subforum and forumers to refer to.

But..i'm afraid it won't work well when we have hardware and software pinned threads. Forumers will still open new thread and skip the pinned threads. We have seen it happen all the time..hahaha. Proven too many times.

For example like how to sync video, it really easy only when one takes the time to find how to go about it may it be via google or read the User iPhone Manual. As we know, we are impatient peeps and need answers fast. So new thread suface for fast/quick fix. But don't worry, we can close them after the answers are available to them. Just more work for mods

This post has been edited by davidgary73: Mar 10 2009, 06:53 PM

i like that idea.... since like davidgray73 said do make sense.... if the mod think its informative then they can just merge it on the iphone club question... or if its a repeated question... just close it....

This post has been edited by g3n0c|d3: Mar 11 2009, 09:05 AM

The absence of a moderator before this has allowed a lot of non constructive posts. I worry that it is only a matter of time before post counts are not taken into account anymore in this sub forum.

Community before Self.....