Hi Guys. Sorry for this new thread. I have received pm's concerning hacks and cracks. Here are the pm's..



*************************************

LYN Rules and Regulations

Action: Discussion, distribution or posting links to pirated software, pornography or any kind of copyrighted materials.
Result: Offending post will be deleted and user will be warned. Repeat offenders will get a temporary suspension to their account.

**************************************

I'll let you guys decide if i need to close "Pwnagetool, Quickpwn and Winpwn Thread" as many sees it as cracks.

So do comment.

Cheers

This post has been edited by davidgary73: Nov 15 2008, 03:01 PM

Well..."Pwnagetool, Quickpwn and Winpwn" would fall under hacking as it involves non malicious methods of breaking into an iPhone system. Nothing to do with cracking.

I'm not sure how either hacking or cracking would violate the rule of discussion, distribution or posting links to pirated software, pornography or any kind of copyrighted materials. Technically speaking when we bought the iPhone, we made an exchange of rights from Apple to user. We can so to say do anything we wish to our phones. The only reason it would violate the rule would be because we started posting up the iPhone software source codes or giving out links to pirated applications which I'm pretty sure we're not...are we?

Some people just don't know the diff between hacks and cracks.

Pwnagetool, Quickpwn and Winpwn = Hacks
Illegally obtained apps/apps that u did not pay = cracks


Definition from wikipedia

Hack



Crack @ Software Cracking



To put it in a simple word ... if you didn't buy the apps but obtain it somehow and using it illegally then its a crack. U can be sued for soliciting it.

Why Pwnagetool, Quickpwn and Winpwn is not a crack? U bought the phone and its yours so u have the right to do whatever u want to it (unless u stole the phone). Apple already said that if u jailbreak (using those hacks) then you void your warranty but can't be sued.

Pwnagetool, Quickpwn and Winpwn can be cracks if Apple sold the iPhone OS as a separate entity like our Windows or Mac OS X.

Please do more research before saying a hack is the same as a crack although the line that separate the two is a fine one.

Interesting topic.Although I welcome any kind of hacks or cracks.I believe Dev team hack in first.They had did so,next they need to crack it. The point here is not so much about what is hacks or cracks is.The point here is both is illegal. If cracks is not allow then I see no reason hacks is allow.I think is LYN's rule put us in a grey zone here

I agree with frozz. Those who complain abt their thead being closed dispite being useful, they lack of maturity. Read, understand and comprehend the terms n process. Buying a pirated DVD is using cracked app. Buying an original DVD n ripping it to ur iPod or iPhone is another matter. Just a small comparison. No offence or watsoever meant. Jb is merely expanding our phones capabilities. Overclocking a CPU, hacking, cracking or smting else? Similar to Jb?

basically that is what those dun-read-but-always-assume-that-is mentality.

true, this Pwnangetool, QP/WP is in the hack category but

"It's not "illegal" in the sense you can be prosecuted for it. It might violate the terms of your service contract. If you're not on contract, then it's your phone and you can do what you want with it."-Yahoo answers

and when they(the M****) r in the middle of showing off their l33t skills and kena sound, complain, report... sure la heboh abit

This post has been edited by Seaedge: Nov 14 2008, 09:18 PM

pwnagetool tool and cydia is not illegal because you are entitled to do anything on devices that you own, but obviously that breaks the warranty (not like you are having warranty for your iphone here anyway).

infact, people should be praising the developers of pwnage, without jailbreak in the first place, Steve Jobs wouldnt be approving the concept of appstore. Would you like some web apps?

However, cracked apps should be banned at all cost, it is hurting the developers.

I think the best explanation is u can discuss any JB related stuffs but not cracked apps. That's it. Simple and straight. Btw JB is considered as hack and it is not illegal as well coz u own the iphone, u can do whatever u want, putting pr0n inside, smash it, put it into the blender, drop it and etc. But just that u cant get warranty from apple, that's it. Well, maybe u can if u restore ur iphone to original state and del all the JB data left in the iphone.

Btw here i present you how to put iphone into a blender.

fact: JB/Unlock iphone will not land you with a lawyer's letter... cracked apps is. PWNage/QP/WP is not cracked apps in the 1st place. its a developed app.

This post has been edited by Seaedge: Nov 14 2008, 09:31 PM

"Man down..!man down...!"


Yup crack issue again.. this is one of example, what is crack...

Do you think Dev Team got this kind of email...?
I dont think so..
Simply bcoz, there are DEVELOPER!

This post has been edited by setoyo: Nov 14 2008, 10:08 PM

hmn.. i am more interest to discuss is Hacking is legal ? I don't think so... Then, If hacking is illegal , anything subsequent on that is consider illegal already.... I really don't think hacking into iphone by Dev team is legal... Something like hacking into bank website..

@sugen


This post has been edited by davidgary73: Nov 14 2008, 10:04 PM

huh? what is that mean @sugen?

Sorry..press the return button to fast..hahahha

So u think i should close the pwnagetool thread?

This post has been edited by davidgary73: Nov 14 2008, 10:03 PM

I am not the moderator of LYN... Again.. I welcome hacks/cracks.... Your question to close pwnagetool thread is on the hands of the Moderator..
As i said earlier, the LYN rule & regulation bring us in a GREY zone..Since hacking/cracking is an illegal operation.. Then it really confuse many LYN forumer to differentiate which illegal action can be post & which illegal action cannot be post..
[/size]

This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 14 2008, 10:10 PM

@sugen = sugen,

meaning he's directing that message to u..

hacking is like a knowledge. it can be used for good or bad. if not why do you think there will be firewall softwares and such by those antivirus company? do you think come up with such software without hacking knowledge?

but when knowledge misused, then it is a crime.

again, hacking into iphone, if thats what you are refering... why is it illegal? are you reselling the hacked iphone? if for personal use, its not "illegal".. (like i said previously) not until the extent that you will be prosecuted by the law.

so where is this M**** fella?
come out come out wherever you are

it had been mentioned clearly from frozzbyte and seaedge's postings,
there is a fine line that divides them both if not why didnt they just categorized everything as cracks or hacks?

it's your phone you can do whatever u wan with it including BlendTec. I'm no advocate for crack apps but use it at your own discretion.

With that said, anything that happened to your phone is a risk on your own. As cracked apps need a patched mobile installation file and changing permission protocols, once messed up...halleluya

and please la why still with the malaysian mentality?
do appreciate people's work, if not who will be producing fun apps like texas holdem and asphalt 4 for everyone?

p/s it's like producing your own shit but letting others claim ownership of it without permission.

This post has been edited by =Hanxz=: Nov 14 2008, 10:16 PM

So from now crack app can be post in LYN?

hahahah...

gawd why can't you just understand that it's copyrighted materials
its not about how to use the cracked apps but how ethical it is for u as an end user.

even though our country is riddled with pirated stuffs, why can't we just move a step forward and do our own part to support originality?
again and again its about how u appreciate other people's work and come on u can buy a 3k phone but u r whining about paying a little bit more for that extra fun?
better sell your phone off and get a n96 then where all the applications are pre loaded

regulars here definitely have noticed the sudden outburst of new cracked apps threads by newbies, i even reported a few and why does the mods invisible-ed it and not the pawnage thread?

have some common sense, i doubt we all have with our lackadaisical attitudes around.

I think moderator is the right person to wrap up this post..

i do hope you edit your post, it just doesn't make any sense
and hey, here's a handkerchief...you're dribbling shit from your mouth literally.

i FULLY understand.. I think we should understand is hacking/cracking is legal.. I really cannot accept that cracking is illegal & hacking is legal... Both should be prohibited IF IT IS FOUND ILLEGAL

Woot...

It depends. I think u need to read back my post at the previous page. Jailbreaking ur iphone will void warranty but it is not illegal, u own the iphone, u can do whatever u like, so it is legal, unless u abuse it or use it for crime and etc. For example, u buy a new laptop, u open it and modify the hardware inside, of course u r allowed to do so but just that u will loose ur warranty. Now do u get it my dear sugen? (sugarcane)

1. cracked apps r pirated stuff
2. pirated stuff is stolen frm others
3. stealing is an offence, hence prosecuted
4. JB is not stealing...more of tweaking or technical altering...
5. JB is no offence = cant be charge...
6. if cant be charged, plead not guilty...

IMO... Cracking is a part of Hacking...

Mind to explain?

Seems like there are still some people that does not have a firm grasp between hacks and cracks.

Let me put it in the simplest way that even a level 1 spore can understand:
"hacking is not cracking"

U cannot put hacking/cracking together as both are different. Just an example, "muslim can't drink tea/beer because it's Haram". Both elements are different. One is halal (legal) and the other is haram (illegal) although both are drinks. Sorry for the anology ... can't think of anything better.

Yes hacking can be in a grey area since we have the white hats and the black hats (google that up). White hats will hack to test the system for vulnerablities so they can improve the security or program. Black hats hack a system for a more malicious reason. Asking for money or defacing a website or putting in a trojan. The dev team are more to the white hats, hacking the phone to make it better, not to harm anyone. If u still say hacking is illegal then the HackTheBox (or something like it) event which is endorsed by the information technology ministry is illegal? Even giant software company held hacking competition for hackers to hack their system/software.

Crack or cracking is an act of alatering a software so it can be use without permission hence its illegal. No matter how u look at it, its still wrong. Bak kata pepatah "seperti menegakkan benang yg basah". No matter how u argue, if its wrong then its wrong.

Please understand the term properly n carefully so you wont be misguided. Information is at the tip of your finger, use it wisely

This post has been edited by frozzbyte: Nov 15 2008, 12:31 AM

hack = breaking into system thru OS vulnerabilities
crack = reversed engineering

perhaps... another 'debate' is on the net too. check it out [ Here ]

This post has been edited by friends: Nov 15 2008, 12:12 AM

well before we argue further, shudnt we refer back to Apple iPhone Software License Agreement?

I have just download and read the agreement , things we need to understand is that Apple license the iPhone user to use the software

this part is copy from the License Agreement

what we need to confirm that JB is legal or illegal is in the section 2( c ) of the agreement, which is stated below

Does JB did any of the thing mention there?
The main point there will be the "modify", if Jailbreaking does modify the iPhone Software, then it does consider to be violating the License Agreement

but bec to another fact, violating the agreement is a case only between the Apple and the User who been granted the license, not Apple and the JB program or Dev Team

the case of Dev Team hack iPhone software is another case, which is not related to the user since user only use their tool to JB, not joining them in the effort of JB it

so downloading or owning or even distributing the JB software are not related to Apple iPhone Software License Agreement, it shud refer to those program Agreement, if we were to ask distributing these program were legal or illegal then we shud refer to their agreement, not Apple's

Added: As i remember none of the software here post by other forumer relating to JB iPhone is those iPhone Software that has been cracked or pirated, these forumer are only posting those TOOLS to JB and unlock iPhone

This post has been edited by elico: Nov 15 2008, 12:30 AM

Good one elico.

If i may add, don't u think that Apple would have sent out their lawyers to get the dev team or shutting pwnage/quickpwn/winpwn down if it was violating or infringing the T&C or software agreement? Yet the dev team are still alive and kicking.

unless Apple get an injunction from the court or any other method by law to seize any distribution of these JB Tools

or

as in my previous post it is state within these JB Tools software license agreement

i dont think posting up these tools in LYN were consider to be illegal

hahaha nice topic here.

from my view, pwnage/quickpwn/winpwn is not illegal as long you using your iphone for yourself.

Apple will not stop any JB tools. Dev team will not release any unlock software if iphone 3G sale still good. All about money.

well you guys can argue all you want, but at the end of the day, this forum belongs to LYN. hence they will determine what is illegal and what is not.


so far, those threads endorsing cracks have been clamped down, but JB threads remains unopposed.


hence, the conclusion here is simple. if you want post/contribute things which are not endorsed by LYN, get the heck out of here and carry out your activities somewhere else. LYN doesn't welcome you here and so do we. period.

sugen cant differentiate what is hack and crack, that is one thing i am dem sure about.

elico, what you stated previously is correct. that is the agreement. its not regulation or an act. you will not be sued by apple if dismantle, modify or whatever you do it to your iphone. at most you only violate that agreement and void the warranty. but if you clone one iphone out... apple will make sure you pay for what you did...

as for sugen, again, cracked apps and jailbreak/unlocker is 2 different category application. cracked apps are those commercial software which their limitation(demo, trial, shareware) has been removed while JB/UL is to modify your iphone.

This post has been edited by Seaedge: Nov 15 2008, 02:03 AM

lol if someone makes a report on apple about these things,than it will be a real big issue.hope M**** does not report or complain to apple about this cause something real bad may happen.

Apple doesnt really care coz there r hundreds of websites out there who offer cracked apps, if apple really wants to care, they will shut down that websites first. But so far, nothing has be done yet coz it's just too many....

ok maybe something might happen,dunno la.im out of here.i gtg to sleep..

report about this thread? or cracked apps offered by thousands of website/torrents?
dont hope. this kind of thing has been reported since day one the availability of cracked apps.

shoot the pirate to prevent piracy

OR


haha..

nonono.. As i said earlier i am fine with hacking... The interesting topic here is about LYN rule & regulation that lead us for this discussion... BECAUSE LYN prohibit any post/discussion about cracking BUT ALLOW discussion about hacking... Since both are illegal action, then y hacking is allow & cracking is not allow..Don't you guys see there is a DOUBLE STANDARD here..

Guy, do u think that apple will AGREE that DEV team's hacking is Legal action ?? I am sure is not..
IF someone hacks in FBI website, do u think that FBI will award him & praise him that he is a genius ? OR will FBI says

Definition from wikipedia

Hack

Hack has several meanings in the technology and computer science fields. It may refer to a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem, or to a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem. The term is also used to refer to a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable, such as DIY circuit bending. The general media also uses this term to describe the act of illegally breaking into a computer, better described as cracking.

hmn.. i am sure they will put him in JAIL





This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 15 2008, 01:26 PM

well as posted by david in his 1st post, this is what LYN Rules and Regulation stated



i think sugen has a miss conception here about LYN rules, LYN is not prohibiting post / discussion of cracking and allow discussion of hacking, LYN is prohibiting discussion, distribution or posting links to pirated software, and so far what i see is that LYN moderator are only closing those thread that are posting these pirated software

as long as we did not distribute what we have cracked then it shud still be ok with LYN rules since we only discussing how to JB iPhone, not discussing pirated iPhone Software

same thing apply in Hackintosh thread too, they merely discuss about hackintosh like : "how to get these driver" and so on, not distributing the hacked / cracked version of Mac OS X

This post has been edited by elico: Nov 15 2008, 12:07 PM

fair enough, if certain parties oppose so much about hacking. hence to avoid any confusion, let me advice davidgary73 to take down all this JB threads.

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Added on November 15, 2008, 12:10 pmbecause as far i'm concerned, LYN has not prohibit any sort of JB activities here before.


but doesn't matter, so long it pleases everyone, we all should act in accordance to best interest of the majority.

This post has been edited by nokia2003: Nov 15 2008, 12:10 PM

Thanks... ok..AGREED.. So the previous post with link to crack app store application should be prohibited as it falls in the below "DISTRIBUTE or PIRATED SOFTWARE" rules..

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Added on November 15, 2008, 12:21 pmSorry Elico,
The more i think the more i got confuse about the LYN rules stated below... "copy righted/link posting/distribution...."...

Take a deep tough, Firmware 2.1 OS is copy righted by APPLE.. Someone, took it , hack it, modify it & release it with it's own FIRMWARE... (DEV TEAM).. This is already fall in intellectual property...

So, should we or should not we DISTRIBUTE it here in LYN?? hmn... what a discussion here.. i am confuse... Guy, again .. this is a discussion about LYN rule.. I am welcome any hacks/cracks honestly..

This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 15 2008, 01:24 PM

@sugen you are welcome

well i dun see why it is not good to have a forum discussing all these... even though IF these thing are not allow to discuss here, there always places like Google and iClarified to know how to get things done, providing a place for discussion is only save u the step to going Uncle Google house to find answer

Come on, dun take down all the JB threads here, if not this section will be very dull for sure.

AGREED.. I think we should suggest LYN to change their Rules & Regulation.. So that BOTH hacking/cracking is NOT restricted..Since both fall in "COPY RIGHT/DISTRIBUTION/PIRATED" category..

@sugen

those WinPwn or QuickPwn were tools for cracking software... it is not the cracked version of iPhone Software... so if forumer only post these tools here, then they are not distributing pirated iPhone Software, but distributing the software to JB iPhone

as i remember when JB iPhone we need to have the iPhone Software Restore file and the QuickPwn or WinPwn or what so ever JB tools right? And the iPhone Software are not those that have been pre-modified by Dev Team but those are original downloaded from Apple, the cracking happen only when u start using the JB tools to JB ur iPhone... thus the modified copy of the iPhone Software were only in ur iPhone

YES during the QuickPwn process, it does need the root 2.1 firmware.. The process actually MODIFY/ADD in their own CODE to the root APPLE 2.1 firmware. Then the last steps is COMPILE it. The end product is the NEW MODIFIED/JB 2.1 firmware...

The above process already fall in intellectual property... BECAUSE, the firmware is copy righted by APPLE.. ANY attempt to MODIFY/USE without permission is PIRATED/ ilegal.. Again, it had fall in LYN rule & regulation of PROHIBIT DISTRIBUTION/COPY RIGHT/PIRATED category..

The key point here is, SHALL we ALLOW to DISTRIBUTE/link the QUICKPwn tools here in LYN ??


This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 15 2008, 01:56 PM

Sugen, can u plz use smaller/ordinary size font? All of us can read here, u dun have to stress for every words u said. Thanks.

what we violating here during the JB is the Apple iPhone Software License Agreement, but the violation of this agreement is not happening within Lowyat forum, but rather in the iPhone and, or the PC of the user who JB the iPhone

i agree with you that we does modify the iPhone software, but we only modify it during the process of JB, not during the process of posting the message in LYN, we didnt not violate any License Agreement if no JB happen thus we did not break any LYN rules, and we are not distributing the modified iPhone Software too

this is taken from Apple iPhone Software License Agreement secton 2(b)


LYN rules prohibit us to distribute, discuss or posting any pirated or copyrighted material right... what we SHOULD NOT POST in LYN is the iPhone Software since it is copyrighted by Apple as u have said and as stated in Apple iPhone Software License Agreement section 2(b), but still we can download it from Apple and make a copy ourselve as stated in the License Agreement, and i think if the link for download iPhone Software was from Apple, then i dont think it will be violating LYN Rules too

Again i must say.. Posting the Tools for JB does not violate any Apple License Agreement, and these tools are not any pirated material thus did not violate LYN Rules too.. what violate the rule might only be posting the original Apple iPhone Software since it is copyrighted

This post has been edited by elico: Nov 15 2008, 02:38 PM

hmn... that is another point from u...

But in the LYN thread "Pwnagetool 2.1, Quickpwn and Winpwn 3 Thread, »»» 2G/3G Unlocking and Jailbreaking ««« " It does has a LINK to Download the tools.. This is a DISTRIBUTE action right?..
Earlier, someone ALSO provide a LINK for cracking the app store application. But, it has been remove due to DISTRIBUTED & pirated rules in LYN. If Quickpwn's LINK is allow, i see no reason cracking link should be removed..

@sugen

LYN won't change the rules. So, what you what us to do?

1) We delete every thread concerning Jailbreaking? Also, threads related to it are Winterboard, Iphone for Dummies, Cydia (all softwares related topics) etc.

2) We prohibit everyone who ask how to JailBreak or even use the word JailBreak at all?

If all the threads above are illegal according to you then, close them? And, don't tell me is up to the mods to close the threads. Please, i can close my own threads. Mods or no mods..

If you still insist is illegal, this is what i will do.

1) Close all threads related as illegal to you. Trust me ..i dare to close all my theads..did it once, always welcome a second round. If anyone ask me why, i point it to this post or your post. Maybe ask them to pm you. Be prepared to answer them.

2) You wanna us to be strict, we can be. Anything you or anyone post regarding hacks and cracks, we will report you or whoever to the mods without hesitation. Trust me, i will do so or many wil do so.

*Why mods closes cracks threads? Simple. Is illegal and you have eyes to see it. Not a single thread available.
*Why is Pwnagetool thread still up? Simple. Read what elico said: Tools for JB does not violate any Apple License Agreement, and these tools are not any pirated material thus did not violate LYN Rules too.. what violate the rule might only be posting the original Apple iPhone Software since it is copyrighted.

Dear Davidgary,

This is a discussion thread, or you call it is a DEBATING thread... The standing here is ALWAYS either AGREE or DISAGREE.. IF you agree with me that hacking is illegal & it should not be appear in LYN.. Then action should be taken;ELSE take no action..

I certainly don't think that APPLE is agree that what DEV TEAM did is LEGAL..Pls read the below article source from http://www.iphonehacks.com/2008/11/pwnagetoolpwned.html

"" New MacBook Users Reporting Problems Running iPhone Dev Team's Pwnage Tool?

The iPhone Dev Team have claimed that it was impossible for Apple to fix the bug they had exploited to develop their Pwnage Tool which they claimed could only be prevented by a hardware fix.

However, Apple Engineers had proved them wrong (kind of) by figuring out a way to combat Pwnage for existing hardware by programming iTunes 8 to detect and prevent the Pwnage exploit. The iPhone Dev team had immediately released a patch to counteract Apple's counermeasure at that time.

But it looks like Apple Engineers might have another trick up their sleeve as iPhone users over at HowardForums and iPodTouchFans are reporting problems running the Pwnage Tool on the new MacBooks that were recently released by Apple........The Dev Team have not yet commented on this latest countermeasure by Apple. ""


So, any idea y APPLE want to do this? I believe you can answer it..

For me, i still stand firm on my Standing here... "If hacking is allow to DISTRIBUTE here then cracking should be allow too"


This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 15 2008, 03:35 PM

@sugen

Why don't you report my threads and all threads regards as illegal if you see deemed illegal? If mod close, so be it.

If you wan a list of threads, i would warmly provide you the links. Got lot's of them.

there is some difference between cracking something which u didnt own and cracking something which u owned

JB iPhone is cracking something which u have the license to use the software even without JB, when u purchased iPhone the license came together with it, JB it just violating the License Agreement, did not violate any Copyright Law or Intellectual Property Law as we did not own an infringe copy of iPhone Software

But cracking Application in which u does not own the license to use is not just violating the License Agreement, but aso violating others Copyright Law, Intellectual Property Law and other law relating to it as u own an infringe copy of the software

This post has been edited by elico: Nov 15 2008, 04:20 PM

Again, i welcome crack/hacks.... It is just our debate here "why hacks is allow & why cracks prohibited since both is illegal action ".. We live in the kingdom of Mod here.. This is his kingdom, if he think hack is allow but crack is not allow.. Then let it be....

Oh ya.. last action of any debate end with hand shaking... eh.. no ICON for hand shaking 1 ah here...

oh no david.. not again..

i agree with u

@ sugen
read that up

Do u know there is lesson/class to learn how to hack in some training center, but there is no lesson to learn how to crack?

Hack depend on human moral value, which is done it for good or bad
Sometime hacking is necessary to retrieve what they been locked.
like said, a company got an important data, but they locked and forget their password,
and there is an IT company tat unlock this password or AKA Hacking service, which it is allowed
and dun forget, u even can purchase Hacking tools online
hacking Microsoft password tools that u need to purchase which it's u tell me is it illegal or not?


but Crack is really a different story
if something that u have copyrighted, u by pass it so u can use it free other than pay the license/copyright.
i dun see it is same as hack


So, Hack, whether it is illegal or not, that is depend on victim that get hacked to judge it.
while Crack is illegal all the while

taken from iphone - wikipedia;

Third party applications

The iPhone's operating system is designed to only run software that has an Apple-approved cryptographic signature. This restriction can be overcome by "jailbreaking" the phone,[123] which involves replacing the iPhone's firmware with a slightly modified version that does not enforce the signature check. Doing so may be a circumvention of Apple's technical protection measures,[124] which in the United States would be legal under special provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that allows for circumvention for the purpose of connecting a wireless telephone to a wireless telephone communication network.[125]

@boxer freak: i have done some research on what u have state and i found this too on Wikipedia



so base on this section 103(f)(1), if we legally obtain license of iPhone Software, then we may circumvent (or what we call jailbreak) the software to achieve the ability the interoperability of computer program, and it does not constitue as infringement of the software

so basically it mean that Jailbreak will be argueable to be legal or illegal under this section of the US Law, but of course the legality depending on the purpose of JB-ing it.

This post has been edited by elico: Nov 16 2008, 12:20 PM

Great to hear that ! But... but then i found out the below article source from http://www.iphonehacks.com/2008/11/pwnagetoolpwned.html (For those who miss it in the earlier post, i will just Cut & paste again)

"" New MacBook Users Reporting Problems Running iPhone Dev Team's Pwnage Tool?

The iPhone Dev Team have claimed that it was impossible for Apple to fix the bug they had exploited to develop their Pwnage Tool which they claimed could only be prevented by a hardware fix.

However, Apple Engineers had proved them wrong (kind of) by figuring out a way to combat Pwnage for existing hardware by programming iTunes 8 to detect and prevent the Pwnage exploit. The iPhone Dev team had immediately released a patch to counteract Apple's counermeasure at that time.

But it looks like Apple Engineers might have another trick up their sleeve as iPhone users over at HowardForums and iPodTouchFans are reporting problems running the Pwnage Tool on the new MacBooks that were recently released by Apple........The Dev Team have not yet commented on this latest countermeasure by Apple. ""

Elico,
Maybe apple had recently change the rule & regulation that JB is no longer legal under US LAW.. (this is my assumption ONLY )

Guy, i will try to email apple.com support regarding the matter that we discuss here.. Not sure if they will entertain me or not. If they can drop a word or join us for this discussion.. THEN LYN will be very famous by then..

All of us here just want to know the REAL answer.. I think apple should be the right person to answer..


This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 15 2008, 09:55 PM

If davidgary closed his thread again..
I know who to blame on..



This post has been edited by setoyo: Nov 15 2008, 10:20 PM

Yup, finish reading... To be specific, what is the point of view from APPLE themself in term of hacking into their iphone. Will they see this hacking as legal? Or will they see this hacking as just like what you & me read blow? hmn.. I really don't know.. But i can see that APPLE is COMBATING their iphone with DEV TEAM pwnage tools..

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Added on November 15, 2008, 10:19 pmCome on man... Davidgary open up this thread for us the discuss & debate.. So, let us accept it with open minded heart.. After all, this is just a dicussion..Every one have different view on the same thing...Let continue to discuss lah..I would say this is a great discussion..

This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 15 2008, 10:22 PM

Developer site,
Have u been use IPhone SDK toolkit...?
better get one, read the policy...
It not an easy task build and publish in Apps Store..
bcoz apple got their tough guide line...

So developer put their beloved apps in cydia/installer to sell it.
Before they can publish to Apps Store...
(Its a Long Queue to get there)
So the solution, the developer need to produce the "JAILBREAK Term"
So they can sell their useful stuff through cydia/installer.

So hacking the iphone is a must...
It produce more quality to ur iphone..

Cracking not producing anything..
it just distribute developer work..

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Added on November 15, 2008, 11:18 pmThe dark ways,
Crack site, buy this app @usd9.99 legally then crack it...
So the developer just got usd9.99 for once transition...
Then the cracker publish his "WORK" to the world...That He Can CRACK!
Next the leeches(U KNOW HOW), just suck up this apps and sync to their iphone...
Not only that, then the "leeches" put the "CRACKED APPS" at their "place"
to distribute to other leeches... Hmmm

the next day, this developer see just an empty wallet..
but his apps is use worldwide!!!


So what do u think about crack and hacking now?
Is it same?

Tell me?

This post has been edited by setoyo: Nov 15 2008, 11:18 PM

but u just state they combating?
if against the law, shouldn't Apple file a law suit on them instead of "combat" on how to prevent it?

This post has been edited by CooLeRthings: Nov 16 2008, 01:09 AM

This is why i'm not good in debating, i easily gave up on some people that can't or refuse to see the facts laid out to them. They can't see black or white but just grey. Its already been stated that hacking depends on the persons intention. If he/she meant good then its good/legal but if he/she has malicious thinking about hacking and there are victims to his/her doing, then its bad/illegal.

Cracks/cracking in the other hand will remain illegal if he/she has a good or bad intention towards cracking the software.

If u are saying that hacks are illegal as cracks then this forum as a whole will be a boring one. We won't have modding section for pc or mac desktop i.e themes, eve candy and system tweaks. We won't have the hackintosh section or even the gamers will run away since they can't discuss hacks to their console.

This debate is going no where if some people still don't understand the difference between those two term. Facts and definition have been laid out but still have some thats trying to "menegakkan benang yg basah".

Cracks will always be illegal no matter how u twist n turn the facts to 'legalize' it.

And if u still think that hacks are also illegal but infact its not then just don't participate in the particular thread.

Nuff said

I agree with this part. If u dun JB ur iphone, it is just a piece of metal which everyone has, i mean in terms of the features, look, homescreen and etc. To unleash the FULL POTENTIAL of ur iphone, u have to JB it.

http://mac.blorge.com/2007/10/20/faq-iphon...g-jailbreaking/

just want to share

This post has been edited by g3n0c|d3: Nov 16 2008, 02:53 AM

i understand what sugen is trying to state there about the new MacBook cant use the pwn tool, the fact is that, if u think from Apple side, let say that u are Apple, for sure u will try to maintain and protect ur and ur partner benefits or interest right. Since if JB were by the law section stated before are legal, then of course Apple can only use method other than seizing the distribution of the pwn tools by law, to protect their interest

Yes JB does bring something not benefiting to Apple, but it also enable more people to join in the effort in expanding and making the iPhone and the application on iPhone flourish

JB is like a double edge sword if u were to ask me, if Apple really does to lock everything up and not allowing anyone to continue the effort to help iPhone "grow", then i would really be sad because this will make Apple re-doing their mistake in their history.... remember how Apple was used to be when Steve Jobs havent return to Apple, remember how "EMPTY" Apple was back then, almost as good as dead.

and look at Sony too, they used to be like that in the past, isolating and locking up themselve from others... yet they started to change now...

i dont mind that if these tools and thread regarding pwn tools were to remove from LYN, and i dont blame Apple if they really wanted to stop jailbreaking, i myself were not even an iPhone user to begin with, i just want Apple to continue on what they started 30 years ago, and i just wanted when i mention Apple's name, others will think of Apple as something like a smile, where everyone loves it

btw... want to add something, I used to wonder and ask "Why does Apple keep Mac OSX lock to only Apple's Machintosh, why dont they open it to allow other to used it on their PC, everyone loves Mac OSX so much, why does they keep it to themselve?", the answer to that question came not just from Apple, but also have to thanks Microsoft for it

the answer were simple : "Apple wants their user to have an overall statisfaction in using their product.", it might sound "selfish", but if u think properly, what does u feel when u use Windows Vista? Are you statisfy with it? I dont... i run Vista and Mac OSX on the very same system on my iMac, but yet how can 2 OS that do almost the same thing happen to be performing so differently on a same system, it is simple because Apple design the Mac OSX to work well with every Mac, so everyone can have the same statisfaction, and the same performance... Windows Vista are not design to be specific, they were made for everyone, that is the great thing about them, but it is also their weakness.

and for those Mac user and switchers, ask yourself "Have you ever regret on switching to Mac?" , i will be the first to say "NO, I never regreted."

Apple might not agree with JB due to the very same reason too, they want iPhone user to have a good overall statisfication, for example Apple dont want any application on iPhone to run in the background because it drain the battery life, but some apps cant work without doing so, so Apple wont allow such apps on Apps Store... but JB enable these apps to do so on an iPhone and let other application to have a chance to work and improve on it, who knows maybe someday, some genius came out an idea on how to run an application on the background while not drain the battery life thanks to JB which allowing them to have a place to test and use. Think about the limitless possiblity of JB and Apps Store can bring to iPhone, and even other product on the market

Sorry for making such a long post

This post has been edited by elico: Nov 16 2008, 04:20 AM

hahaha.. a good debater will ONLY pin point on the topic but not a person...I like this topic discussion man... Talking about hacking is legal in GENERAL.. I use back my old post again...

Let says..

IF someone hacks in FBI website, do u think that FBI will award him & praise him that he is a genius ? OR will FBI says

Definition from wikipedia

Hack

Hack has several meanings in the technology and computer science fields. It may refer to a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem, or to a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem. The term is also used to refer to a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable, such as DIY circuit bending. The general media also uses this term to describe the act of illegally breaking into a computer, better described as cracking.

hmn.. i am sure they will put him in JAIL.. If this is true.. Then y hacking is legal...

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Added on November 16, 2008, 7:32 amThanks... we all know the ADVANTAGES of JB..And we love JB... Discussion keep on... JB is legal/illegal..

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Added on November 16, 2008, 7:39 amhmn.. Right.. I was wondering too.. But haven or does not take any law action YET does not mean that they AGREE or what DEV TEAM did is LEGAL ooo... Like Microsoft know for sure that 80% of home PC powered by end user in Malaysia mostly is using pirated OS etc... Till now, we never see Microsoft sue any end user.. That does not mean that END user does not against the law..BUT we only see action taken to Corporate....

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Added on November 16, 2008, 7:47 amOk... APPLE is still COMBATING (means does not win yet) to cover the lop hole.. IF.. IF 1 DAY they had FIX the bug.. DEV TEAM is leave behind.. They are unable to JB anymore...(a bad news for all of us).. Then, by that time... Will we SAY "now only it looks like JB is an illegal action in the view of APPLE ...."

This post has been edited by sugen: Nov 16 2008, 07:50 AM

i just realized tat u r da one n only advocating da point tat jb is illegal...

WHO THE HELL IN THIS WORLD SAID JAILBREAKING IS LEGAL!!!!!!!!!ITS ILLEGAL

TO ALL THE NOOOOOOBS SAYING JAILBREAKING IS LEGAL, READ THIS FOR YOUR BETTER NOOB KNOWLEDGE : http://www.ipodtouchfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62142

@MohdFarid1994 have you even read the whole DMCA Section 1201? Here read This until section (f). JB are argueable as legal or illegal, and the outcome depending on the action and purpose of what you do with JB... dun just simply quote other website and state it is illegal

@sugen, after some of the statement from previous post, i think you still dont get it, some hacking by law are illegal, some hacking by law are legal, dont mix all and put them together as one category as hacking is illegal

like i said, under the DMCA 1201 section (f), if a person legal get the license, he can circumvent the protection system to achieve interoperability, which mean if he got the license, he is legally to crack / hack the system in order to know and learn how does the system exchange in information, so that he may use those knowledge to build more application or some other usefull program to work with it. This is an example for hacking is legal

and btw, have u heard of the term Ethical Hacking? Understand the purpose of Ethical hacking then u wont say all hacking are bad and illegal, it is depending on the course of action and purpose.

Some ppl still dont get it... eh..
Between hacking FBI website and hacking iphone... haayaa...

Pls somebody... plz.. SHOOT ME...

As your wish.

Relax mate. Take some chill pill dude. Elico is rite. Please read what he posted.

Anyway, let's say you take Rm 40,000 - 50,000 to work on a software. You're extremely proud of it. You manage to convince highrolers to buy your products. That's all good. Then....out of no where, your product is been pirated thru out the world without paying you a single cent for your hard work that you have invested in. They pirate/cracked your software..That's illegal in your terms rite?? What do you do? Cry for help and hopefully someone out there will listen to you? Hunt down those who pirate your software?

Same thing goes to crack apps. Developers gave their time, money, effort and you come introducing and posting cracks apps here and others say you're posting something good?. Don't u think you're doing a bad thing?

Look at the developers point of view if you will. You'll be so frustrated and in the end, you would not want to develop any more apps. It's their rice bowl mate. Thier income which gives them the motivation/will to make more apps for use to use. Why not help them? Being nice is not hard. Just simple jesture of saying thank you.

Second, you purchased an iPhone. Is yours to do whatever you please. If you wanna jailbreak or not jailbreak, is entirely up to you. Given if you say we should not mentioned Jailbreaking here or even allowed in this forum because it is illegal, what else can we do here? Mind sharing some ideas on how to not talk about jailbreaking here or theming the phone, using Cydia apps etc? Tell us..i know you and sugen or those who support your facts has lot's of ideas mate. Do share. We can implement something new here.

Again, if you find my threads illegal, report them. I welcome your reports.

Cheers

This post has been edited by davidgary73: Nov 16 2008, 12:44 PM

I think they r debating on whether it is legal or illegal, and not about ur post. Btw it is just a friendly debate so dun use noob please mohdfarid.

hey jacka$$es or mentally challenged individuals.


i know you guys are trying to make a point here. but everyone in this forum here can read perfectly well. there is no need to increase the font size or use capital letters.

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Added on November 16, 2008, 1:18 pmexactly. i do not see what is the point of getting agitated to be begin with.

This post has been edited by nokia2003: Nov 16 2008, 01:18 PM

Yup,this is a debating about legalimate issue about JB.If u also think that JB is llegal and should not appear here.The you can delete it.There is no need to keep asking what you should do..Hihi...so will u remove it?Only u know

@sugen

HHAHAHAHA...sure. I got more courage that you dude. Read..HAHHAHAHA.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/790913

This post has been edited by davidgary73: Nov 16 2008, 01:49 PM

Then next time when ppl want to ask about how to JB their iphone, wht should we ans? And where should we point to?