Hi guys

I'm now undergoing a 3d modeling freelance job which I'm suppose to model a few interior visuals of an entire whole house including living room, bed room, kitchen blah blah blah. I haven't discuss the pricing with my client yet, so I wanted to ask any of you experienced people for suggestion.

1) How much will you charge for visuals like these (attached pics)


2) Do you count by per piece of visual? How about per angle? Or different perspective?


Thanks guys for the effort to read all these and also those that replied, really appreciate it...

- noob freelancer -

This post has been edited by ivn: Sep 8 2008, 02:27 AM

count models and renders. easiest.

ok..... so? your answer is?

You can count per package. Depend on your client request. Put your entire job in a package type. So they have more choice to choose.

If you doing the whole bed room, with your skill, I think you can charge around RM200 to RM400. Give them 2 angles in this package. If they want more angles, you can offer them 20% to 30% of the total what you are charging him.

Also all job must see how details the client require you to do.

in 3D many charge through per hour rate. You cant charge it through per-item modeled or through angle. But if the finishing required some simple shader and no-so high res modeling, then you can just charge in package like what soyabean86 suggested.

oh i get what u mean, thanks

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Added on September 8, 2008, 3:35 pmi plan to charge RM500 per room, and you can take whatever angle you want, as in RM500 for a bedroom, and you can take shots of whatever angle you want, how many you wish... Is that ok? Am I spoiling the market rate?

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Added on September 8, 2008, 3:36 pmgee thanks ^^

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Added on September 8, 2008, 3:37 pmvery detailed information, thank you very much

This post has been edited by ivn: Sep 8 2008, 03:37 PM

well the thing is how are they going to tell you what angle? and if they are just beside you looking at how you do the angles, how are you going to charge 20-30% more? (assuming it is easy to get a new angle)

how u charge per hour rate??
how long u know 1 3D scene takes to render?
different view might takes different time. some consumes for hours. even days. yes im not joking, for the one i did, it suppose to takes me more than 20 hours to finish render. exact time im not sure coz end up i cancel it and split render by using around 8-11 pc.

and even u know those, how u gonna know if ur client will wan to make changes or not?? major changes we will charge, but if u are beginner u got no right to bargain. some client will say "want charge meh? if u charge next time i don bring project find u ady lo".

experience such client before? O_O?


anyway, yes there are some people charge through per hour (i guess). u might be right. just that seriously, i dont know how people charge by per hour. nvr experience before.

This post has been edited by Core-: Sep 8 2008, 09:33 PM

ya true also, assume that designerA can model an object in 3 hours, and designerB need 6 hours to model the same object, does that mean designerB can charge extra for taking more time to model it? If yes then it wont be fair, cos the reason designerB took more working hours is because he is not as skill as other designer, it could probably be that he's purposely working slow to gain more working charge, would it? So how exactly do you charge ppl by hour? I really dunno....

usually, in my quotations as a web designer, i do charge by hour in that i break down steps taken to make the website into logical steps with time.

eg.
Create logo
1. open photoshop - 1 minute
2. open file in directory - 30 seconds
3. create new layer for text - 30 seconds

and so on..

i know it sounds tedious the first time round, but after 2-3 projects you will basically have all the steps in an excel format that you can just copy paste into the quotation complete with total time.

just total out the timing and charge it according to your rate.

eg. your total time for the project is 7 hours, so say your hourly charge is RM85, just 7 times 85 and you will get the charge.

that's how i do it. and my clients can't complain much once they see the long list of steps that i took to make the image/products/website since everything has been detailed out for him.

This post has been edited by technophile: Sep 8 2008, 10:55 PM

wow, ur a very systematic guy, dunno whether I can achieve that, cz im kind of a tedious person, haha... great guidelines btw, thanks for your suggestion ^^

have too la. later client complain the charges are not reasonable. plus it helps if they ask for discount. you can just flip over the quotation and show them which step they want to take out, usually none coz all the steps are required to do the thing.


most clients do not know what they are paying for and why the charge we charge them sounds unreasonable (RM1500 for flash website? unreasonable?), thus i use this approach to somehow "teach" them of what kinda things we designers do in order to deliver them their website/product.

so far so good. they will look at you as professionals after that.

This post has been edited by technophile: Sep 8 2008, 11:03 PM

cool.. sounds just like a real professional, respect!!!

I got some time to spare,
so I'll explained how I do it.... (I used to do some freelance)


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after discussion with the client and got all the necessary infos..

ask 50% before doing anything...

-----------------------

1st

start modeling, texturing.....etc.

interior for 1 area, for me took from scratch to final render & touch-up, about 2 days / or 1 whole day (if I don't sleep.. well.. I rarely sleep for days.)
for exterior 2-3 days.

render is really not a problem, with the right settings, for a high-resolution image the longest time it takes is around 1 hour.
I use 2 pc, 1 for render and other one for work (sometimes render when I'm not using it).


--------------------------

2nd give the client a preview

-for a preview I do a 6 angle camera shots, brought into photoshop and combine all into 1 big image and email to them in jpg.
(no compositing in photoshop whatsoever.... just a normal low-res render.)

low-res render (1000 x 750) x 6 (camera shots) per area

---------------------

3rd (estimated time, 1-2 days)

high-res version (5000 x 3750) x 1 (selected angle from client) per area

usually at this stage I rendered the visual and do some touch-up & compositing in photoshop,
for example, an exterior render of a new shopping complex, in photoshop I put some real people, sky, cars, plants (landscaping)... etc.
skip unnecessary modeling for anything you can do in photoshop, those extra polygons = extra render time (and sometimes won't even render).

-------------------

4th

second preview. email them the final look (but low quality resolution)

when got an A-okay from the client,

next step :

done. ask the remaining payment before giving the final product. (no money no talk.)


if not, do some correction/alteration... changing idea..? thats gonna cost extra.. (first changes is free)



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well.... different people, different way of doing stuff..

about the payment,
usually I gave them the base price for the service (modeling, compositing..etc) (not including render per piece, that's another price.)
I don't charge according to how many hours/days, and I rarely charge them base on complexity cause I always do my best even for a simple job.
(I hate doing a half-4ss job)


if they say.. "wahhliau weyyy... damn expensive mehh...?"
if that happens, most of the time, I just ask them what's their budget, and we go from there.
(you can always decline the work though.)



wahsaiii... long post already.

anyway, good luck in your job.

.

this is basically how i do as well

btw dude, mind if i ask how u ask ur client to pay u 1st before u hand him final product???
as in... how u say to him??
"after u pay me i will send u the final file..."
or or? how u say??? usually i just giv them my files 1st then wait for them to pay me. @.@ so far nvr kena cheat yet la. doesnt mean that i wont in future, but tats why wanna know how usually u guys ask them to pay 1st? lol...

first thing first .. put watermark when posting/delivering either its vid or still pixel .. so others cant steal your hardwork babe!
(i dont do 3d so my point of view is just this) goodluck!

Wah seh, if I tell this to my clients, they'll show me middle fingers and tell me to fly kite.

hahaha.. kesian la you your client seems to be bunch of morons.
i've had my share with morons before.
they expect us to work with very limited budget and pay us unreasonable price.

that's where i came to use that system.
saves me a lot of time. plus i have prove (documentation) of things i charge them.

clients have budgets, and so do we.
what i'm doin is in a way teaching clients not to take us (freelance designers) for granted. that's all.

IF only, never done this before.

Freelancing depends, I open a price, they don't like it, they can go away.

Most of the time I charge them per work/project. By hour is a bit...

Obviously I open a price that I feel not underpaid.

The total time of the finished render x the amount you want to charge per hour = the total sum. Not to mention that you need to include the charges for modeling and texturing. Animation has to be calculated differently as it will be per-frame based. Changes will be charge at 10% of the total sum calculated earlier and 50% of the total sum calculated earlier for a major changes (may it be remodeling, retexturing)

If you rent a render farm for the rendering then the charge will be the fees you paid for the render farm + 15%.

The reason why you charge per hour is to have a standard rate to your service.

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Added on September 10, 2008, 8:05 pmLocal client? Then i have to say, its no surprise on you saying that. Theoretically, local clients tend to be very cheap due to their exposure of "want cheap and very good service".

This post has been edited by onscreen: Sep 10 2008, 08:05 PM

I used to ask them to pay me only after I delivered the final files.
because of that I got cheated twice in the same year...

but I managed to get them to pay me the rest of the money...
(its a long story)

after that I change my strategy.

every time there's a new job, I will always tell them before we even made any deal,
that I will only send them the final files after I received the rest of the payment,
and of course after I showed them the final low-resolution one...
that's just how I do things...

If they are ok with it, then we have a deal...
if not... well.. pls feel free to find someone else.


basically when the deadline is near, I will remind them again, that the final product will only be send after I received the rest of the payment.

.

Hi guys, thanks for all your sincere experienced suggestions and advices, been busy rushing the visuals for my client this few days till i don't have enough time to check my post. Actually he has given me a very tight schedule to finish my work and now I'm actually still rushing the visuals. I've send over a quotation for my client today, and I'm supposed to submit the FA to him this Friday. Anyway pls take a look at my quotation and tell me what you guys think....

Below is the visuals that he asked (numbers represents amount of printed visuals, different rooms and angels)

Living Room
1) Tv cabinet (single visual)
2) Partition (single visual)
3) Outdoor shoe rack( single visual)
4) Front view of living room from outside (through big window panels)
5) Inside view of living room towards Tv Cabinet and living room arch (extended balcony)
6) Inside view of living room towards partition and dining hall

Dining room
7) Dining room mirror (one panel)
8) Dining room mirror (three panel)

Resting area (beside dining room)
9) Front view from outside of resting area (pergola) looking towards dining room

Study Area (under staircase)
10) One visual showing study area

Dry kitchen
11) Dry kitchen 1st view
12) Dry kitchen 2nd view

Wet kitchen
13) One visual showing the whole wet kitchen

Study room (2nd floor)
14) One front view

Kid's Room (2nd floor)
15) Visual looking from outside to inside
16) Visual looking from inside towards wardrobe

Master Bedroom (3rd floor)
17) Visual focus on wedding photo area
18) Visual focus on bed

Walk-in Closet (3rd floor beside master bedroom)
19) One view focusing on wardrobe
20) One view focusing on cabinet/mirror

So i tell him:

3D visuals is normally charge by RM200- RM500 per room, and then sub-charge of different angle for a discount of 30%-50%. Or to make it easier is to simply charge RM300 per printed visual (some people charge by each printed visuals, the guy I know charge RM350 per piece). So base on the amount of visual he asked me to print, 20 visual x RM300 = RM6000

But i offer him a package price of RM500 per room(there are 10 rooms), with no limit of angles (he can take as many angle as he want) That way, 10 rooms x RM500 = RM5000.

How do you guys think?

Again, I'm new in this so if there's anything wrong, please don't scold me, haha... will gladly accept any suggestions and advice, thx....

sounds logical to me.

quite detail as i need for references to guide.
personally i felt can goes higher. can afford to goes 7-8k if u can make it really realistic. im not sure how realistic u can make though, but if the 2 images in 1st post of urs is ur current skill, then maybe around there ba la.
as long as u don feel underpaid, then it should be fine. the way u charge seems reasonable too. this is just your starting point. keep it up brother. make ur portfolio firm, make ur skill better, so u can charge higher in future. lol...
anyway back to the point, feel not underpaid and feel good for earning then okay ady. haha. congratz for ur 1st 3D freelance. wish u all the best



btw just reread again what u said... it is kinda dangerous to say "But i offer him a package price of RM500 per room(there are 10 rooms), with no limit of angles (he can take as many angle as he want)"
just to avoid some sorhai client abuse this...

This post has been edited by Core-: Sep 11 2008, 02:23 AM

nice work
rm500?

yea, RM500 per room, easier to charge him, so that dun need to count angles so much hassle.... consider as a package for him as our 1st business deal la

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Added on September 12, 2008, 10:56 ammy client ask for RM2k for everything... omg....

This post has been edited by ivn: Sep 12 2008, 10:56 AM

2k for everything???
impossible to be done.
rm100 per view??? logo design also not so cheap la...
ask him do by himself pls.
lousy client no money still wan use 3D.

next time pls giv people quotation and let them agree on it 1st before u start work. if im not mistaken u already start ur work?

GG now they ask for 2k for everything.

This post has been edited by Core-: Sep 13 2008, 02:56 AM

as the matter of fact the work is all done =___= suppose to meet at lunch hour today to pass the visual and collect money, who knows he send me an email at 6am in the morning, by the time i get to my office and read it it's already 10pm++.... so i wrote a reply back to him and explain him the time consuming and energy burning throughout the work costs a lot, cost he claims that it should be cheaper cos there wasn't much designs involve(most of it they give the designs and measurement, i just model it....well sorta, but i did throw in some ideas) he also mention that there be lots of opportunity to work in the future la, bla bla bla, those kind of craps...

then after mailing him i text him, "hi Mr. XX i read your mail, replied you, please read it and make another arrangement for us to meet again, thx" so the visuals is still in my hands, i still hold the cards, just see how firm i can hold... worst comes to worst i will charge him RM200 per visual, at least i still get 4k, still a "special prize" cos i wanna keep this customers cos he's a very potential long term client, he's a contractor that does house renovations, so the visual is for him to show his client....

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Added on September 13, 2008, 3:43 amBtw let me give you a longer story of how i get this job, he's a contractor that i know that does work for MY company, so all along I'M his client. Last week he meet up with me and ask me whether I can do 3D visuals for him or not, it's very urgent and need it by this week. I ask for details of the brief and he told me it's gonna be furnitures, but there's gonna be a lot like 20piece plus. He showed me reference pics of furnitures like what shown in my attachment(kitchen cabinet, books shelf). I reckon it won't be too hard so I take the job lor, but the brief is still not detail yet and I still are unsure of how many visuals I need to do and what type of furniture do i need to model.

So I started work last Friday, with him coming to my house and telling me directly what to do, what measurement and what furnitures to do. By the time I realize it, it turn out from a book shelf to be a living room, from a kitchen cabinet to a whole kitchen, I'm not just doing furniture, I'm doing 3D interior visual!

Finally on Tuesday night when i get all the details from him (number of rooms, furniture items, measurement) I discuss with him about the quotation, I briefly told him that 3D visuals normally cost around RM300-500, but for my standard of work and the quality of work that he requires, I give him a special price of RM500 per room and he can take any angle he wants regardless the amount (like what I mentioned in my previous posts). After i explained it he asks me, "wow, that would reach at least 2-3k right?" so i said, "yeah for sure" but i didn't say it's gonna be 2k - 3k cz im sure it's gonna be more than that but i myself also didn't know it's gonna hit 5k cz i didn't exactly count it at tat time. So it seems everything is fine and he say he'll discuss with his partner.

The next day morning I mailed him a full quotation (the one I post before) to him and called him to inform him that, and I told him i would like to receive the payment by Friday upon upon collecting the visual, and he say he'll look into it. Yesterday night which is Thursday night, a night before the submission date, I called him and confirm the time with him to meet which is the next day lunch hour, and I ask him has he showed his partner my quotation, he say they've look through it, so I ask is it possible to collect the payment tomorrow? And he said "dun worry, i'll issue a cheque o you when meet you" notice he only say he'll issue a cheque but nvr mention d amount.

So this is what happened, 10hours later after that call he mailed me and ask for reduction to 2k, i guess he's tryin to catch me off guard knowing i start work at 10am and hope i'm gonna get panic and made the wrong decision, luckily i was calm enough to manage the situation, calmly explain to him in email and text him for another appointment and start my work in the office that day like usual, luckily it didn't effect my working mood that much today.

Until now there's no news from him

This post has been edited by ivn: Sep 13 2008, 03:43 AM

tell him, if we input design, it gonna charge much more...
coz by right if u input design, design itself which is ur concept it should cost over thousand ringgit. thats why u see those few hundred ringgit logo, those aint their actual price. all are pressed down by the sorhainess client.

200 per visual dam low honestly. but that is the least u can do. hold his visual don give him. if he is really so dam urgent, he will pay u anyway. i can understand trying to keep a potential long term client. but if is a client that pay u shit payment, think urself. u are going into long term deep shit or suffering too. work load a lot with low payment...

btw 10 scene with 2 view for each scene. in total 20 scene. how long for u to model, texture, lighting and render all out???

hmmm... i dint really count la, but to be honest it doesn't take really long, cos it's all basic modeling lighting, cos that's how the client wants it, plain white blah blah blah...

ooo... Those modeling base on the image he provide???

not image la, base on the floorplan, blue print those type

i mean those modeling of furniture is it specifically follow the furniture design that he want???
not saying the interior design, talking about those object.

nvm though, not really important. just cincai ask only. lol...
hope ur price wont kena he press too much ba la. all the best...

he got some reference pic from d internet la, he say "want something like this" so i will design base on the not so hi-res pic and follw the max heigh and width of d furniture lor