a-levels is nowadays such an easy exam (up to 25% of candidates gets an A in most subjects), nobody with less that 3A's should be selected into med schools........

kudos.....

however, exceptions cannot be extrapolated to the general.....that is why anecdotal evidence is category 4......

if only all students and doctors were like that......

you all obviously have not been understanding what i am saying......

if you say so......since you already made up your mind about this, and now resort to personal insults....

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Added on August 11, 2008, 7:18 pmwrong about what? what did i say? i have made it clear imed is not relevant as far as individual country's sovereign right to recognise degree is concerned.......so listing there is not of consequence in the local indian and msian context.....

in any case, the website was last updated 1 august 2008....

but somebody has been stalking the site daily....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 11 2008, 07:23 PM

website updated 1 Aug.........incident occurred over the last week......so of course no update.....that is all it means......not updated....does not mean imed already determines it is semua okay even before doe india makes a decision......

yes, it is okay to be wrong......just admit it, everybody makes mistakes.....

================

my contributions to the education forums is based on principles, broad policies matters, facts about standings of med education and qualifications vis-a-vis each other, and in different sovereign countries....

i do not know anyone here personally, so i do not want to go down to individual levels in arguing and insulting each other.....non of my comments are directed to any individual specifically in any way.....

but some people feels offended because they take general statements about certain medical schools, and extrapolate to themselves......don't.....do not be so sensitive.......

i will now end this debate, and will only further comment in general terms......and will not respond to further personal insults and provocations.......

the people who will benefit from these threads will be those who silently read and learn the facts, and make sensible decisions on what is best for themselves, individually......in other words, make you decisions with your eyes open......and accept the implications of that decision eventually.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 11 2008, 11:38 PM

fact: arts student are taken in....leading to derecognition of ukraine school by mmc......

fact: students with very poor spm results are taken into russian schools....personal review of spm results of recent graduates starting housemanship...

fact: one can buy passes in russia.....personal communications from students there....and...http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/761025/+70

if one is 'bashed' by facts, yes one is too sensitive.......

i have the privilege of certain information most to-be students and current students do not have.....this info is for those who are contemplating doing medicine......it's too late for those already in....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 12 2008, 12:29 AM

actually, that is putting words in my mouth, when i said no such thing, as usual....so for the record again, this is my stand:

1. developed countries are consistent in their selection and training process, and thus has the best record of consistent med education....obviously of choice then.....

2. ipta/ipts and many 3rd world schools suffer from selection and training issues, just know that you will have a mixed bag of classmates and lecturers when you get there.....

3. money should NOT be a factor in the selection process, just interest and ability......the practice of buying places in msia (and 3rd world in general) is bad.......

so which part of that is not in agreement?

at least your friends got into ipta....many got nothing.....it is precisely this situation, where bright eligible but poor students are denied places, whereas mediocre students with rich parents or sympathetic government scholarships will buy the places.....that i say money should not be a factor.....

i criticise the system.......not individual students......don't you see.....by allowing a blow-valve situation of allowing poor students access to 'cheap' private med education, you are also allowing bad students to buy in.....

in local politics, by allowing the nep, you also allow leakages, justified in the name of the nep......same scenario.....

no official institutionalised discrimination......that's for sure.......

ie, it is illegal, but of course it happens....but it is illegal and you make a complain, something gets done.....no forms you fill are allowed to ask the questions: 'race', 'religion' etc.......

it's legal and institutionalised in msia........

big difference.....

facts.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 12 2008, 11:30 PM

referring to your reply to zltan, therefore specifically referring to oz.....

yes it is that simple there.......

have you been to australia?

i know it is difficult to imagine after being used to msia, but cabinet ministers have resigned for something as small as not declaring and paying tax on a videoplayer on return from overseas.......

it's call good governance and accountability, something quite alien to msia.......

links dead

i didn't say doesn't happen.....racism exist everywhere.....just that it is illegal there and legal and officially sanction here....you do know the difference.....

it's not that it occurred.......it's how we react to it that makes the difference.....but i am beginning to think some cannot understand the difference.....oh well.....time to sleep.......

eh.......actually, no lah......mostly 'locals', many from the spore branch of the previous um (before partition)......

sigh.......that's why have to repeat, some people too dense to get it the first time......

see above............point 2, the basis of all my comments.......

where did i say all 3rd world doctor not up to par........?

for the other question, see point 3.....

eh.......they did look at his degree, and they did NOT recognise it, and want him to prove himself.....that is why he had to sit for the qualification exams in uk and nz........

bottom line: you have to prove yourself individually, since the standards are too variable for blanket acceptance.......

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Added on August 13, 2008, 2:42 pmThe Great White Flood : Racism in Australia
Critically Appraised from an Aboriginal Historico-Theological Viewpoint
Anne Pattel-Gray 2000

Description
This book examines the impact of racist government legislation and policies upon the indigenous people of Australia over the last 200 years. Anne Pattel-Gray contends that racism in Australia is rooted in the long and corrupt relationship between government and church. The persistence of racism in every area of Australian society is documented, from government to schools to courts to churches, and the illusory humanitarian and human rights stances of both institutions are here exposed. Pattel-Gray argues that racism is an endemic and chronic problem that must be addressed and solved, Her book defines and clarifies racist terminology and language, reviews historical and contemporary expressions of Australian racism, and assesses both the concept and the recent process of reconciliation in Australia.

===========

can we have a similar book about racism in msia too......?

oh? cannot? too sensitive issit?

or because the white man did it, it is okay if we do it too?.....two wrongs make a right?

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 13 2008, 02:45 PM

as usual misquoting me......

replay:

1. developed countries are consistent in their selection and training process, and thus has the best record of consistent med education....obviously of choice then.....

2. ipta/ipts and many 3rd world schools suffer from selection and training issues, just know that you will have a mixed bag of classmates and lecturers when you get there.....

3. money should NOT be a factor in the selection process, just interest and ability......the practice of buying places in msia (and 3rd world in general) is bad.......

sjr, these are basic principles, there are always exceptions.......

and i know you all only know the msian scenario, and hence will always look at this with blinkered vision, but in countries we are most familiar with, ie uk, oz, nz, selection is NOT based on money....it is heavily subsidised, and fees often deferred (see zltans comments above).......so everyone can 'afford' as long as you are selected on merit.......in other words, they try their best to prevent what many is complaining about here......not getting in even with good results, and giving up due to no money.....

i know money plays a big part in the defacto situation in msia, which is bad, like i said......it opens up the widespread practice of students who would not have got in (were they citizens in the 1st world), on merit, now buying their way in........eg, someone with a ter of 93 will have almost zero chance of being selected into oz unis if he were aussie, but because he is msian, will easily get offers in several ipts here.....while another with stpm AAAB (which should be about equal ter 98) cannot get into ipta med school, and with no money, gives up completely and does something else in ipta.....

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Added on August 13, 2008, 10:43 pmyes.......

maybe because you understanding of the subtleties of english is deficient......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 13 2008, 10:49 PM

of course i am referring to citizens....but why are citizens of this country paying so much for their children's education, both ipts and overseas?

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Added on August 14, 2008, 12:07 amqed.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 14 2008, 12:09 AM

back to the usual passion vs intelligence debate.......sigh.......

i suspect most here know that based on strict merit based criteria, they may not have got into med school, hence desperately holding onto the belief that people should be allowed to try out, based on interest rather ability.....

oh well......

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Added on August 14, 2008, 7:42 amRevised principles

1. Selection of medical students should firstly be based on academic merit. There are more than adequate number of potential candidates with interest and passion in the profession from a group of top 5% students in any cohort. (in msia, that is 10,000+ students)

2. From this group, final selection should be done based on applitude, attitude, interest, compassion and other attributes.

3. money should NOT be a factor in the selection process. The practice of buying places is bad.......

4. developed countries are consistent in their selection and training process, based on 1, 2 and 3. and thus has the best record of consistent, quality med education....

5. ipta/ipts and many (not all) 3rd world schools suffer from selection and training (mostly assessment) issues, resulting in inconsistent quality of students and graduates.

6. Exceptions occur, but cannot be used as justification for allowing poorly qualified students to 'try' medical education.



This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 14 2008, 07:42 AM

there is a significant difference between 93 and 98........

zltan, someone (msian, non oz pr) with 99.55 didn't get offer in mu......