lol.. he's not the PM

I disagree completely. Maybe you misunderstood me.
1. You must differentiate rank (corporate rank) and position (roles and responsibilities). When I said analyst, I meant the rank of A1, i.e. an analyst being a first year MNC IB rank. I did not mean the position of analyst as in research analyst. A research analyst is a 5th year or so position, and is typically Senior Associate or VP rank. Those guys earn like RM300k a year. You are correct that fresh grads going into research will have the rank of analyst, but their position is assistant research analyst. As for them 'not paying RM140k', you are sadly mistaken.

2. In recruitment criteria they roughly are. My intent was to give an example of the best universities in each country. Remember that not all Ivy League universities are made equal too. Some are better than others in their respective fields.

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Added on August 7, 2008, 3:36 pmI've renumbered your sentences so I can reply accordingly.
1. You are correct about McKinsey and Co. A fresh grad joins them as a Business Analyst, and must leave after 2 years. If you do well enough, McKinsey pays for your Masters. If not, sorry la. Out.
There are very few BAs in the Malaysia office.

2. I never said it was a realistic expectation for the majority. My point is simple, there -are- these jobs out there, but there aren't many. If you want one, make yourself as strong as you can, and strive for it accordingly.

3. Most do not return, you are correct. However, some do. For whatever reasons, family, friends, SO, etc. I am one of them.

4. I disagree here. There's a huge variance between the strongest graduates and the weakest. After a few months training (typically 6 months), a fresh mathematically inclined 23year old trader can make millions for his firm. Directly quantifiable, on-the-floor profits. On the other hand, 10 lesser graduates may not be able to, and may even lose money in the capital markets. Worth the RM140k? Definitely.

5. You are somewhat correct here. Maybe not 1 hand, but there aren't many. 10 a year? 15 a year? 20 a year? Something like that.

This post has been edited by zer0hour: Aug 7 2008, 03:38 PM

Essentially, there IS a long queue waiting.

Want better pay? Move out of the country.

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Added on August 7, 2008, 4:59 pmWhich MNC IB's pay RM140K per year for fresh graduates in Malaysia? None that I know of. Malaysia is not even a regional financial hub and its capital markets are thinly traded so why should they pay exhorbitant amounts? Foreign funds which invest in Malaysia (which is not much to speak of in the first place) buy and sell on pre-determined weighted programs and certainly have no need for smart alecky number crunchers to do that for them - the only need order takers which your average equity broker can do just that. The traders who make the really big bucks in IB are the fixed income folks - and the fixed income market is severely under-developed in Malaysia which means those FI traders will need to ply their trade in Singapore, HK and Japan if they want to make decent $$.

Some Ivy leagues may be better than others in certain fields but there is no conceivable way that a University of Melbourne can stand up to Oxbridge or a MIT in any business related fields.



This post has been edited by SPS: Aug 7 2008, 04:59 PM

1 (a) None that you know of does not mean there aren't any. I don't feel comfortable disclosing which IBs, but you can take it from a person who used to work in that industry that there are those positions out there. I leave it up to you to believe me, or call me a liar.

(b) As for trading based on programs and models, yes you are correct. The majority of traders in Malaysia are sales traders, i.e. order takers. However, there -are- proprietary traders around. Again, I will not disclose which banks, but if you do some research on which bulge brackets have a BNM banking license, you can figure it out.

2. I never said they were equal. Read my reply properly - I'm saying that in terms of recruitment criteria, i.e. whether your resume gets thrown out or you get your interview, these are all within the accepted range.
At the interview, it's all up to you. Your degree counts for very little at that stage.

I am working in the investment industry and there are no IBs in Malaysia which pay anywhere close to RM140K for a fresh newly minted graduate straight out of school. Hence, I do not believe your statement.

As I have explained in my earlier post, logical inference would also tell one that IBs in Malaysia would have no need nor will they pay such a large pay packet for a fresh graduate - trading volumes are thin in Malaysia and the fixed income market cannot be considered mature in any sense so why should they need to?

An accepted range at the pre-interview resume sifting stage when considering the world's top colleges would be Oxbridge and the Ivy League plus Standford and INSEAD for instance, Uni of Melbourne and its equivalents would get bumped down another rank. This is not a discussion about the validity of the degree after candidate selection has been done.

ur friend must be in the solutions team then..... get a friend in the consulting workforce then you have the right to speak.... if ur friend is in the consulting workforce then either he's not doing too well or he has been cheated

1. And I have worked in the investment industry as well and I tell you they are. If you do not believe me, so be it, and we will just have to halt discussion on this. Fixed income is not the only market, forex and derivatives employ proprietary traders too.

2. Not true. Stanford and Oxbridge are primarily research universities. If you're talking about absolute top rank for the finance industry, then Harvard/Princeton/Yale/UPenn. All others, same rank as UCL/UoM/Paris/Ecole. Also, we are discussing fresh grads not MBAs out of BSchool. No INSEAD. And this was never a discussion about post-selection validity anway, why bring it up?

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Added on August 7, 2008, 5:52 pmHe's probably in Services. 3k+ for a year 3 is still too little for even Solutions.

This post has been edited by zer0hour: Aug 7 2008, 05:52 PM

i agree with kevin.. there's NO way your fren could be paid that amount in consulting workforce..

tat aside, it's true that ACNs' pay is on the high average portion in the industry.. but try calculating ur hourly rate, then u'll realized it's almost da same as wat ur getting outside..

ACN:
RM3500 / 22 working days a month / 11hrs a day (i'm not exaggerating; speaking from exp) = RM 14.46 per hour

Average:
RM2500 / 22 workings days a month / 8 hrs a day (typical) = RM 14.20 per hour

and work life balance, it's really depends on the project as well as your definition of balance.. some ppl may think havin full weekends every week is work/life balance; some might think of everyday going back at 5:30 to spend more time with family as balance.. so it's kinda subjective..

but i guess the most important thing is for u to be happy.. regardless of how much you're earning, if you're not happy with the work you're doing and the company you're working for, salary means little..

my conclusion is ACN is good for u if u:
1) wanna be exposed to MNC working environment and culture
2) gain and learn more of a specific thing (SAP, ERP, etc.)
3) young and no tight family commitments
4) super enthusiastic (with slight kiasu-ness) in learning and performing better than others

n try not to expect collecting enrich points if you're joining in fresh, the possibilities are not that great..

my friend told me that he will fly to moon powered by sugar, and he will not lie to me..no way he will lie to me....i believe him without logical thinking!!

This post has been edited by huix: Aug 8 2008, 03:29 PM

There is Rothschild bank in Malaysia??

hi guys,
i just got an offer from Accenture as a xxx.
It's not directly under Accenture. But it's a subsidiary company called Advent Business Services(ABS) at Menara TM.

What do u guys think?
is it ok in term of career development?
and i think the benefit maybe a little bit different from Accenture itself..

i got offer more than 1K..
no fixed allowance..
and medical benefits is not good like my current comp..

I used to work for a GLC Telecommunication company (not very hard to guess, right ?)

When I join there in 2002, the starting salary is RM 2157. Recently, they have increased that to RM 2400.

Considering GLC pay packet is at the low side of the industry salary range, in addition to the news that the government starting pay + allowance to be set at RM 2,800, I found it reasonable that fresh graduate at private local companies (especially that of MNCs) can earn RM 3,500++ for starting salary.

After working in that GLC company for 6++ years, I have recently joined a Big 4 consulting firm as Senior Consultant. The pay almost more than doubled from my last pay with my previous employer. The pace and work style/environment differs a lot and at times I wonder why I did make the move from the more stable work/life balance and slow paced work environment to this.

Don't get me wrong, I am an ambitious lot and I know before-hand what I am into once I resigned from old post. The point is...money is not everything and there are reasons why some ambitious people prefer to stay at one position in one company that pays lower than that of the market.

As one of my former boss (who worked in that GLC company) once said....if you're healthy and ambitious, go for the money at other firm....but if you're dying of cancer or need to be with your family all the time, this GLC is the best company for you to work in. As he said "my medical cost due to my chemotherapy runs from RM 20,000 a month at least, but the company is paying for it...no questions asked. If I was not feeling well, it's ok for me to stay at home without medical leave deducted....so what ever people say, this company is the best company I have ever worked with and I have no intention to leave the company, until the day I retire or die...." and he passed away a year after retiring from the company.

So the point is, there are many factors why one company is preferred to the other and there are reasons why people choose to stay at one company and that reason doesn't necessarily meant big bucks.

This post has been edited by aabrahim: Nov 20 2008, 04:37 PM

nicez.

While other people say they had 3 interviews before they got in to Accenture.
I did mine in 2 interviews and got offered.
However, the last meeting with the Partners could not pay my figure in demand because I told them..."non-negotiable", they just told me, it would be difficult to bring me in.

Not 5 figures, and consultant level.
this was 4 years ago, when i have more than 6 year work exp.

But true enough, some people find what they want from there....while others find more balance in other job, which I did. Although, not a better offer, but suitable in terms of balancing my life, and not having to work more than 8 hours aday, and yet less a few hundred from the figure i asked from Accenture.

Frankly...having a BIG salary for fresh graduate isn't all good.
You will find out HOW hard it's going to be moving into future jobs....when u really can't stand working there.

That is why, I am a contractor. That seems to be the route I have to take to maintain the speed of my salary targets.

Pros and cons...don't think having big bucks makes the person a better position or lucky.

So after all these discussion.. anyone got into Accenture?

This post has been edited by Doppelgriff: Mar 4 2009, 05:02 PM

It's the company culture. Accenture's culture is either you go up (by raising your profile with the managers) or get lost. Their turnover rate is very very high and they don't care if people worked there 5,6,10 years leaving, they will bring 10 fresh grads next day, low paying, why not!?!

Not everyone wants to be workaholic, but being a responsible person, your project is due next week, will you work this weekend or not?

Accenture's culture is being pushy, getting projects with ridiculous deadline so that they get the deal and sales is boosted.

Acn is actually a good company. Work time is not fixed but their policy is you get your job done. What I notice is in some project (maybe it's Malaysian mindset), employees stayed until 6.30-7.00pm but can leave around 5-5.30pm. You must have thought they are damn busy. In fact, sometimes they just chill in their cubicles, work and relax when they can actually work efficiently and go home soon.

A lot of yum cha in the middle of work. I work there before (intern only) and my manager is an australian.

Many ppl will say Australian r lazy but actually some of them are very efficient. They finish working by 5.30-6pm but when they work, they really work hard and no time is wasted.

Here in Malaysia, it's more like... you make your move going home 1st, then I follow, if not stay until 7 lah...

I'm sure this happens in many company and I truly hate it. Going home at right time and being said of not hardworking enough

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Added on March 8, 2009, 11:26 amEvery consultant work is the same. The first few phase sure very tough and need to stay late often. But towards the end, very chilling.... but they will still stay until 7pm


This post has been edited by EddyHyip: Mar 8 2009, 11:26 AM

1 question guys, concerning the RM140k pay for fresh graduate. Typically, where does that fresh graduate come from? Malaysian universities or overseas?

Wow, banks in Malaysia sure pay very well. RM140K for fresh graduates. RM300K for AVPs with 5 years experience.

Foreign banks in Malaysia are either paying double what foreign banks in Singapore pay (assuming 1:1 parity or absolute parity) or they pay the same as in Singapore (in USD ie. common currency). You really think so? I guess KL's the real financial hub then, not Sg or HK.

Check out this website: efinancialcareers.sg I've linked the search page. Filter your search for country: Singapore and salary: S$100,000-200,000 and you'll see that it's mostly AVP level jobs in MNC banks. See how many years of experience and the types of experience required. Most of the jobs are in wealth management or relationship/corporate banking. Find an entry level job for a fresh grad with no experience in this area, pls post it here.

In the meantime, let me go tell my banker friends about the postings in this thread and watch them either ROFL or straightaway apply for a work permit to Malaysia.

Having said that, someone earning 300K after 5 years work is not impossible. The VP in my office is only in his early 40s, and he's already earning US$2-3 million a year in Singapore. His pay after 5 years in the company was already S$250,000. But then there's only 2 people like him out of 5000 employees in Asia, who are fast tracked (average of one promotion every 1 - 1.5 years). But even a super high flyer like him didn't get a huge starting salary when he joined the company. He got the same as every other fresh grad. He was fast tracked only after he proved himself, and being really good, he could prove himself (and get opportunities to do so) very early in his career.

So, I subscribe to the notion that no company will pay a ridiculous starting pay to an untested fresh graduate, no matter how good your education says you are. But if you're really good, you will get ridiculous increments and promotions... but not before you prove yourself first.

Are you sure KL pay is double Sg's? (following your assumption of 1:1 parity)

My understanding (based on my senior last year and my classmate now) is that it's more like 1.4 times. (following your assumption of 1:1 parity) Btw, I'm in NTU now.

I'm assuming that that RM140k is pay for fresh grad in investment banking division by foreign investment banks in KL.

And if we take a more realistic purchasing power parity, I believe the ratio should be even lower than 1.4.

RM140k for a fresh graduate working in the banking sector in Malaysia is pure BS.

Moreso in these troubled times for financial institutions and for a financial backwater like Malaysia.