Finance is a very delcate area and needs to be justifed correctly. Lets begin with the history shall we. (it will be relevant later on)
The changes in syllabus
part 2 = performance management (F5) + finance management (F9) = 2.4 Financial Management and Control
part 3 = finance management (p4) = 3.7 Strategic Financial Management (core paper)

For good lecturers i think these forum may recognise these 3 person : Chan, Andrew & Daniel
1) Chan (Mco) = I never attend his class & have very few friends who did attend his class so i have very few info to spare.

2) Andrew = During my tenure in optional level i met a fair share of students who have attended andrew class. Some of them said he is ok or acceptable but have nothing much to say (most of these opinions are generated by his ex-students from his F9 or F5).
I also received some other opinions mostly from new students (some of it from sunway students) =

i) Its very hard to adapt to his method unless you have attended his class in lower levels before = so hard to understand
ii) Although they mentioned his calculation technique is unique but they did not like the fact that he put so little emphasise on explaining the theory part which they felt is equally important as well = not balance
iii) They felt that the class atmosphere discourage questioning the lecturer (as if distrupting the flow of class), the lecturer also only reply to very difficult questions and minor / insignificant question will be put aside.
iv) Most of those who chose him at the first place bcos of his reputation & experience but some of them think he is no longer like last time.

4) Daniel = I have attend his class from lower level since i heard from friends that he is the only finance speciallist around, so i give it a try.
True enough he is not perfect but most of my friends who have also attended andrew class agreed he is the better lecturer :

i) If you have not attend his class before it doesn't really matter, he applies the "Zero based Knowledge" so he will assume you have very minimal knowledge in finance. A lot of his students can easily make the transition from other lecturers.

ii) He also practice "Step by step approach" which he will start to explain in very basic manner = to intermediate = then to very advanced level.
He encouraged the students to grasp the key concept before moving on to difficult stuff, so he is very patient to explain until students fully understand.

iii) He is a very friendly person (why is it important?)
He encourage students to ask question so the class atmosphere is very lively (especially in part time no, P4 all night class). Normally there will be around 20 - 30 questions being asked by different person and he answered all of them. He always answered my email question

iv) He is the one of the most experienced lecturer around if not the most. I have approached some of the lecturers (I knew) in KSA, MCO, KB and most them recognise him as the most veteran. I can't reveal whom but all of them have worked with him before = check who is ex-FTMS lecturer you will know. Since he has the pool of experience he can share many tips, techniques he discovered & developed throughtout the years.

Ok its also fair to review his weaknesses = He always claimed he has superior technics (i think its also true) but lack the minor calcualtions (he may make simple mistake like deriving in final figures), however i have not seen any lecturer who didn't.
His english is not that fluent compared to haneef or parmindar but is quite acceptable.
Not the lecturer but the centre FTMS = if you want to eat be more discreet since there is a "jaga" who will "jaga" you when you do that.

My recommendation is quite obvious from the statements above (I try to be as independent as possible). Since you asked for finance i can only recommend the very best in the field, the speciallist himself. But don't get the misconception, that other lecturers are also quite good.

Personal note = I rarely audit my statement so if there is any typo error please forgive me, as i typed it all at one go.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Feb 17 2009, 11:08 AM

Yes but mostly variants applied to reporting (every country got roughly similar standards).
Streams are applied to law & tax since many countries practice non-identical things.

Oops silly mistake

I have PM & some asking about chin ann here, since i have attend his clas b4 i think i can spill out the details :
(I won't go to pros & cons since i think its an unfair indicator of a lecturers performance)

His style
1) He really knows how to focus on important issues and will constantly highlight the key pointers to you (so you will now the priority)

2) His style of explanation is roughly like "break-down" approach. He will break down the structure into smaller pieces & explain them separately so students can grasp they points one by one.

3) He always write a lot in class & expect student to write it down. Normally you have to rely both on his "whiteboard note" with his text book since most of the time it will be use concurrently. Its very difficult to lay down a single format so i will give examples :
- his text book notes has full details on sales system = so he will summarised it in simpler format in class
- his text book just touch on key pointers in payroll = so he will explain in more detail in class
(His notes are mostly based on past diet importance & he rarely update = so he may bring up the changes in class)

4) Unlike other lecturer he likes to actually write down full answers for an exam question for students to digest. Most lecturer will just highlight the key points but he will write down like he was actually answering it in exam. If memory serves in audit he always write more than necessary compared to the examiner. His principle is "write to the point, but elaborate more".
(He writes very very fast & students normally needs to catch up but i always cheat by taking only key points )

5) He likes to create acronyms (but not to the extreme like Parmidar) so students will find difficult stuff in audit is easier to digest.

6) Normally he will use his own terms to explain & then brings forward the official version (so students may adapt well)

His personality
1) He is a "go lucky person" and quite friendly & will still answer your questions (but not as tedious as haneef)

2) He really investigate / research the examiner style & preference so he may give you many tips on how to prepare for exam. Previously he liek to spot exam questions & will list out possible questions (with ranking = highly, medium, unlikely). But due to unpredictability of exam he has lose much of these confidence compared to the past. However he still spot but let the student to decide. (He teach all in the syllabus)

3) He is a former prizewinner himself for some acca papers (i think audit is one of them) so he use this as his preference to teach students = on the technics of answering exam. So his methods will be used exactly how you will also use in exam. I think i can call it "hands-on" approach.

4) He always like to scare students & would like them to make mistakes in class in the beginning so that student will be more motivated to study harder later on.

His flaws (I think)
1) He is very fast (since he always scared of not finishing the syllabus) so you need to be at constant alert in class.
2) KB is not the best centre around but if you are lucky you may ge the top floor which is better than most facilities out there.
3) If its a combined class with 2 sessions = I stressed on the word "occasionally" he will impose on students like this =
"Do you want to go back early by 1 hour, i can do that by cutting all your small breaks & reduce your lunch / dinner to 45 minutes"
Nobody ever complains but i don't really like it (i rather have more quality time in studying but only have 1 or 2 combined class so its still ok)

Just to deviate from main topic = I have met some of the sunway students who have attend his class & actually there are a roughly > 10 in my sitting (jun 08) and they attend his class bcos of his past record (as a prize winner i think) & their own inadequate lecturer back then.
By the way KB has the cheapest fees in town (even lesser compared to KSA).

This post has been edited by Topace111: Feb 18 2009, 09:48 AM

Just a curiosity here :
Do companies enquire the details in acca = Ie exam marks, failures & stuff.
Or just the qualification is enough since i had some discussions with my friends on this issue yesterday.

Well Parmindar is good but your statement is an overstatement really (especially the last part)
I believe there are many other P3 lecturers around the world will scoff at your comment (Michael Mainwaring for example)
Supporting your lecturer is good but when you overdo it, it backfires.
Perhaps you are carried away by his constant religious remarks at class.

Ok i get a general picture about the markings there.
I was secretly hoping Malaysia also make full disclosure about public exam marks however they don't for reasons best known to them.
So how will employer treat to those who have failed before ? even with acceptable average marks. Is it going to be materially affect their resume?

Budget 08 is not even fully tested yet. Budget 09 is definitely out of the equation.

Ha ha i think i should
Right now i am researching which industry line is the most suitable for me.
Some of my relatives are also pestering me sigh. Do you have any preference or do you plan to stay for long term in Big 4 ?

I see, do they required you to know any other skills (Example : Efficient in using Microsoft office)
If you can be specific which assurance line you are engaged to ?
I have met other students who never share the same division.

I have not truly encountered a lot of people who have enjoyed long stint at big 4 mostly around 6 - 12 months experience. I agree with your entire statement but i have also discosvered a defficiency in the plan. Most who actually did engage for a long term in big 4 they became too speciallised in that specific region of field. So if they want to make transition within the same line of employment is quite easy (top position) but to make the transition to a large multinationals which required top personnel to know & able to perform everything normally they couldn't handle the overall task well.
I think Donald Trump had also expressed these in the show The apprentice which also requires graduate to be "street smart"

Examiners don't prepare exam in that 6 months period but way back. If i am not mistaken they maybe already finished preparing June 09 question and store it at the data bank. Normally exam questions are prepared 1 year in advance.
Even if its going to be tested, examiner understand students problem & may not test that detail in the first few sittings.

I thought 6 months ruling has been changed to 1 year ruling

---

Added on February 18, 2009, 2:28 pmGlad to hear it, i am doing my yesterday notes in m.excel as we chat.
I was kinda worried in the beginning of acca that my computer skills are quite weak so i start doing all my notes in different format of m.office (word, power point...) so i can easily make the transition when start working.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Feb 18 2009, 02:28 PM

They will start allocating so early ?
Oh there is other main divisions apart from tax & assurance ?
I expect to use p4 stuff way later in my career or something, i don't suppose they let junior staff to handle hedging or project appraisal
I don't suppose they also check my pmr or spm do they ?

Hmm thats an insightful strory. I am quite glad that PWC puts a strict requirement (the more difficult it is the sweeter the success will be).
I'm always a "straight" person from early days so i don't really feel worried when they asked for quantitative assessment.
Just a final question :
As i was not attached to any single college for long term there is very little oppurnity for me to engage in any co-corricular activities in my graduate days (i don't even think they offered these type of activities to my knowledge). So do firms like big 4 put these as main consideration when applying for jobs (I ws quite an outdoor person but i don't think they will record these in my 3-4 different centres )

Do they asked you played football or stuff ? If i am not mistaken EY has a football team.

If i am not mistaken if the company / college / universities has a large pool of resources they may "buy" acca numbers.
When they bought it they are entitled to receive the students history details namely the results.
Some college like Sunway did it , and Mco too if i am not mistaken. KSA did not.
Some college / lecturer who wants prestige or very confident of their students doing well they may buy students numbers. Apart from that if employer truly wants to know without buying it they had to asked orally from students.

Acca change the syllabus every 7-8 sitting so last time they called it audit now they call it assurance but its basicly the same. So in substance you may failed more than 10 times but in form its disguised in such a way it wasn't. Don't you worry about acca cunning ways of making money from students (you must practice on what you teach doesn't it ? )

Well so far i havent heard / learnt anything reagarding budget 09 in my tax classes (I will confirm this when i attend my next class).
If you are worried about reliefs / tax rates = normally examiner will state them in exam.
As for major topics i am not really sure : Why not you post the the major amendments in budget 09 ? so as to share together.

I think the basis of selecting a lecturer was entirely dependent on the student itself.
I don't know about others but i'm a firm advocate for "research before development" (which means i plan heavily before deciding any appropriate course of action). However i don't think many acca students does that these days unless they have failed their paper, then they will know the importance of suitable lecturer.

I think the the post above points some very good performance indicators which are normally required by a normal student. However before we start distinguish our respective lecturers that way, i think i need to explain the possible rationale on why the lecturers on the first page of the forum are the only those whom are recommended.

First point : Environment
After a prolonged period in acca studies i can fairly estimate that majority of the class size for fundamental papers mostly to cater for full time students (not joining the worforce yet) and professional papers especially optional level mostly cater to part time students (currently working).
Therefore in professional level only the qualify of lecture will be looked upon while most of the students satisfaction indicator will be ignored since their main objective is just to pass the paper not learning.
The experienced lecturer mentioned knew just how to deal with such problems.

Second point : Cost
I think another main factor is definitely money. Some of students are bonded while others rely on personal funding. Therefore they will assess the the basis of 3 E (Efficiency, Effectiveness & Economy). Kl centres lecturers are not perfect but they can rank quite highly in that 3 categories with ease especially the last "e". Another fair assessment will be "value for money" = why everybody is going to McD not TGI friday's ?
Kl centres can also be described as "no frills package" which philosophy has also been used by air-asia in their marketing ploy.

Third point : Competitive advantage
I think many factors can also be dumped in here but i will just concentrate on the key issues. Some of the factors highlighted above consitute a very good indicator but only if we are in western countries. In Asia with more specific in Malaysia students satisfaction or the quality of service provided is always the secondary issue. As such Kl centres really capture this points well and their strategy manage to satisy a broad market compared to sunway who mostly foucs on niche market (Its like Toyota & Benz principle).
Some of the lecturers recommended are also ex-sunway lecturers and they also understand the ultinmate "need" of a student.

Fourth point : Location
This may seem irrelevant at first but when taking several papers together this may become the key issue. Many students hope that their college is easily accessible by normal mode of tansports especially public transports. Suffice to say these KL centres do located in the centre of KL and most part time students appreciate this fact that they can easily access the centres after they worked. With the Kl centres located near each other it also makes them more competitive to retain & bring new students (competitive does breed efficiency) I can say that majority of acca students does not live near sunway that also applies to those who are working (especially big 4).

I think the most important factor also lies with ACCA policy itself. As many of those countlessly said acca is not a degree and gives absolute freedom to students on how to approach it. Therefore most of the factors mentioned beforehand are mostly for degree students which i think is the prime area of sunway.

Recommendation also comes with a very subjective nature. If somebody asked a general question like "I want to know the best place to eat buffet?"
So I will ignore all other factors and just recommend the best place i have been : Jogoya. If he proceeds further by asking "I want to know a place with quality food but at a reasonable pricing" then i may recommend somewhere else.

The recommendation here normally are based on overall opinion and doesn't cater to specific expectation of students. It also implies that these lecturers are suitable for general consensus (nobody can go wrong with them). However sunway lecturers style may suit some of the students but not all may share that similar view. A lecturer with a heavy pedigree knows how to balance his / her teaching methods to suit students with different expectation : just passing, wants to learn, aiming for prize, just to enjoy the class.....etc. Unless the forum segregates the recommendation to separate criteria = cost, quality, service, facilites or else i thik its quite difficult to state a "one for all" lecturer.

With all that said i also hope that KL centres can emulate sunway in certain areas but financial consideration will always remain as the major obstacle

Speaking of platinum, gold or whatever status I think there is a general misconception here :
Why awards are given ?
Technically awards are given based on the performance of students not the university itself. Therefore you cannot say the centre is sub-standard just because it doesn't have an accredication / award attached to it. If everyone wants to see it that way there will be a lot of anomalies / disrepancies all around the world, I think quoting real live example to better enhance the meaning :

Martin scorsese never won an oscar for best director for more thatn 20 years until recently with the movie departed.
Spielberg only once and george lucas never so do you count these legends as losers

Answering the reason why "other centres" did not get a platinum award is way even easier :
Lets start with ACCA themselves, why give award at the first place ?
The theory is quite simple to begin with, but lets quote ACCA sayings "We want to foster better partnership and gives accredication ....."
What they are implying is that they want to generate more members / students from these places. Suffice to say TAR & Sunway do generate a huge chunk of acca members. If you doubt my words you can check acca in wikipedia & see how many partnership they have try to build & building for future expansion.

There must be a reason why acca remains as the largest & fastest growing professional body around the world. Their ability to recognise so many things to make leeway / attract future members. They even gives exemption if you get A in SPM papers. OBU is another collaboration.

Why awards are not given to Kl centres ?
This is not even difficult to begin with :
1) Kl centres do not choose their students / no filter system in place so practically everyone can just attend the class as long as you paid the fees.
Therefore the margin between each students is not consistent to begin with.

2) The students comes from all walks of life : some are working, some only attend revision, some attend the class occasionally, some just to make the numbers,.......etc. So how do you expect them to achieve consistent pass rates ? I don't even want to bring students dedication & hardwork in cause it will just makes the matter even more complicated.

3) For each paper there is only 1 class (3 hours with break time of 15 minutes included) per week unlike some of more orientated college like TAR & sunway which goes way beyond that. In KL centres is all about self-initiative, if you are not hardworking or you don't find extra works to practice you ulyimately will not progress far.

4) One thing I really admire / jealous about sunway is that your friends from lower levels can follow you all the way through to the finals since most of the students capapbility is roughly the same. In Kl i have very very few friends that have progressed with the same level i have gone through. Therefore every siiting i have to make roughly up to 5 new friends per class. Indirectly it also impart some PR & socialising skills to me

5) That 4 points above points on the students themselves. This final one touch one the lecturer itself. One must surely thought about this before if the lecturer is so damn good why no "award" again. Try this analogy shall we :
Everytime I went to KLCC at lunch time (1pm to 2pm) you will see every single restaurant will be "full house" and there is a long line waiting to be seated. That is quite self explanatory cause its KLCC. Try put any of these restaurants on the street without the backing of the KLCC brand see how will they perform. How about Mcd they force to close down all outlets in italy less than 3 months (Italians are very picky)

These lecturer just rely on their self to generate these students. They don't have to rely on centres / universities to support their ventures. I think sunway lecturers performance will be more reliably assessed is when they shift to a new place with only but themselves. If students still followed them eevn if they have shift college then this prove they are quite exemplary by themselves.

I don't believe in strerotypes as I don't think all the Kl lecturers are good & not all sunway lecturers are bad. By the way i don't really know whether anyone will read post as long as this

Just came back from class & the war started & finished at the same day.
Seeing that most of the bloggers here are really interested on why Kl lecturers are considered more "experienced" than sunway lecturers, I think the term "experience" in itself is a very ambiguous word to begin with.
I think the more correct / reliable indicator is "practical" or "hands-on".

Lets start with the more well known lecturers or at least recommended in this forum.
The likes of Chow Kim Tai, Andrew Pang and Parmindar has given a lot of seminars ot giant firms in Malaysia or overseas so they are laden with practical examples so they can really quote these examples very well in class especially parmidar who can even quote the the figures to you.
(example he can quote how much toyota, HP & Microsoft are spending every year on R&D)

Some lecturers especially those who have worked with FTMS before has a lot of exposure with students from different countries namely singapore, vietnam, hong kong, beijing or peking (China) and some other countries. So they can arrive at methods which are singularly or commonly accepted in most part of the asean = keith farmer, chin ann, daniel ho, chow kim tai,......etc.

There are those that are really veteran in the field & regarded as a class above the rest (my own expression but they are really experienced)
I am referring to none other than chong kwai fatt, phillip woo & daniel Ho. They have really teach for so long that they have developed a special technique on their own and they can really simplify difficult stuff to smaller pieces for students to digest.
The best speech is always the simplest but have the most resounding effect : Try martin luther king & abraham lincoln. So they can finish the syllabus in a very short period but still carries the same level of comprehension.

In Kl normally we go to the "centre" not because of the centre but because of the lecturer. However most of the students that I met (which also includes sunway students) that cannot be said to sunway. We go to sunway because of "sunway" , the lecturer part may come later or less significant in the equation. I think some students may be discontented that because some of the sunway lecturers are just "borrowing" the brand name of sunway in itself (which may not be true). Since these lecturers have never step foot outside of sunway so their true performance can only be known inside the community of that university.
If i am not mistaken there is a lecturer called marcus whom have shifted to INTI, then the students there can start evaluate & compare with its predecessor for better evaluation.

By the way i also encountered some very funny but ironic facts regarding sunway students (especially those who have taken core papers)
It seems that most students from sunway feared to fail P2 the most as they really dread of going back to 12 hours class per week but they also end up appreciating the lecturer the most. However i seen most of them have also lose enthusiasm & mood to study compared to last time. Perhaps overstudy can really take its toll. Right now i am just enjoying my life (waiting for Oscar tomorrow morning )

I am really interested to discuss more on the "replacement policy" or the official word "succession planning".
Normally an organization (in this case college) needs to plan ahead if their so-called top lecturers decided to leave.
A contingency plan needs to be set up in advance or face serious repercussion if indeed the key personnel decided to walk out or move on.
(That can also be said about couples, ok just kidding )

Replacement can be either immediate or over long term. Immediate means you replaced with someone whom has equal calibre or even better.
Long term means you build the foundation from scratch or start from "bottom up". These alternative treatment will only work if that said person who leaves, walk out permanently which is often than not.

Roughly 4 -5 years back you will see this forum laden with, em hem supporters from FTMS & Sytemathic but over diversification has caused them losing many students. Actually a college will not generate good income from acca students compared to degree programmes, acca however is a very useful tool to attract sizeable number of students. That 2 college mentioned had already achieve that and start progressing to degree programmes. They have a very poor / negligible replacement policy of their lecturer and most are sub-standard these days.

Roughly 2 - 3 years back you will start to see an even larger horde of KSA supporters around. KSA has a very good track record of grabbing the best lecturer around by offering the highest student fees ratio to the lecturer, so reputable lecturers who have high confidence in their own ability choose KSA immediately regardless of the flaw of other things. Other lesser known lecturer also joined to borrow such limelight from these lecturers and in the case they leave there is a substitute in hand. Thats why you have 2-3 lecturers for each paper.

Currently i can slowly see the students are flowing to sunway but i can estimate in few years the trend will change again since there is many other more benificial untapped programme than acca out there. I seen they have start tinkering with Icaew already. I seen even other college like KDU & Inti started offering acca classes already.
Like in football famous quote : Form is temporary , Class is permanent

This post has been edited by Topace111: Feb 23 2009, 03:06 PM