Do you have background in F8 before ?
If not then I think Chin Ann will usually focus on financial statement items on 2nd term namely areas like audit receivables / sales, payables, fixed assets, cash & bank, intangible assets, stock, wages, going concern, management representation....etc.
Then he should progress to audit report, non compliance of law, fraud, CAAT, It stuff, and internal auditor.

First term should carry the foundation but not normally tested area : agency conflict, audit appointment, audit planning, internal control, risk assessment and audit sampling.

Disclaimer : This is the flow that he follows on my sitting so if he has different flow on your sitting i suggest you should refer to him.

---

Added on March 9, 2009, 7:15 pmHe won't be leaving so soon so don't worry.
Perhaps when you bump on him you should ask him lo. He should be around tommorow.

Regarding F5 I really have no recommendations but only one probable way.
Skip this paper and only take it at last junction with core paper.
This has become the official killer paper of acca seeing the dismal pass rates.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Mar 9 2009, 07:15 PM

Y/a = year of assessment.
Y/a 09 = 1 Jan 09 to 31 dec 09

P1 : Professional Accountant
You won't need your calculator at all. Question is always around (50% theory + 50% application). Normally question asked you to provide some general pointers from a framework or model (Ie : Tucker, Kohlberg....) then some will ask you to reply to a specific case.

P2 : Corp Reporting
I can almost said these is also a theory paper but you need to have decent calculational technique as well. Sec A (50 marks) is complusory and normally involves consolidation normally 30 - 35 marks. Inside those marks rougly half of it requires explanation of standards that you applied so its not wholly down top your figures. The remaining 15 marks normally required you to elaborate on your answer in earlier answer or answering the question in general.
Sec B (choose 2 out of 3) normally are theory questions with few calculational to support your answer.

P3 : Biz analysis
You may or not need your calculator.
Sec A : a case study of 50 marks which required you to explain the case. Normally a financial table is given but if your theory answer is already good enough you don't need to prepare ratios at all. Examiner already implied he won't put much significance on figures.
Sce B : All theory question.

P4 : Finance
The most calculational paper of all optional.

P5 : Costing
50-50%

P6 : Tax
Theories and calculation come side by side

P7 : Audit
Mostly theory

Professional is not like fundamental paper as in theory you need to explain and elaborate more to gain those marks. Its also more applicational based compared to theory based as most of the time you need to explain based on the case plus bringing out the theories as well.
Exam trend is currently moving to a simple direction where examiner will be very CLEAR on the requirement but expect you to pump in more details.
Optional is also unlike core paper where the theory will become even worse. 1 mark in optional is like 3 mark you will normally wirte in fundamental paper. But don't worry be happy

I think one should only consider OBU after completing all fundamental levels since you can better evaluation of its usefulness.
Frankly from what I heard that if you don't get first class for OBU it doesn't really add value to your resume.
Anyway after reaching final stages of acca many people I met doesn't really put much emphasise on OBU but that can be justified bcos most of them already had a degree.

Study style :
It depends whether you want to stick with a university or based on lecturer. Most of the student (>90%) followed lecturer at professional level.
1) Follow a university / college
= It will be very similar to what you are doing currently
2) Follow lecturer
= You are left to study on your own, 1 paper = 1 class per week only. You are given a lot of freedom & flexibility on how to study so if you are hardworking then you can make it. There will be no longer any spoon-feeding here.

Teaching style :
1) Follow a university / college
= Lecturer will be very dedicated to teach but lack the necessary quality to teach advance stuff (They want to teach but lack the cutting edge)
2) Follow lecturer
= Lecturer will have a lot of experience & techniques to share but don't expect the same level of dedication (They definitely can teach but some may not be so motivated).

Ok I will be very frank with you as I too had other friends from TAR telling me the same thing. TAR do not offer degree & the very best you can get is advance diploma which they claim is equivalent to degree. Ok let me ask you something how do you view B++ with A-- many people will tell you its roughly the same but then again advance diploma is still diploma and boss may not to eager to hire you (with recession in the way).

My advice to you is to quickly seek other qualifications apart from continuing in TAR, perhaps a degree or professional qualfication like acca or cima.

Yeah you need to be very independent, find you own school, your own lecturer, study on your own........if you want the best lecturer for your paper.
Its very normal for student to appy for 3 different lecturer in 3 different school for 3 different paper.

Regarding sunway : Although i can share but i have not been there b4 so to be fair, you need to ask from sunway students also .
Regarding Kasturi : Ok in the past I have some bad experience there so my post can be a bit bias, so bear with me

Kasturi
They have a lot of powerhouse lecturers at their disposal especially for core papers but less so in optional.
Kasturi or also known as KSA pratice a similar policy to tuition centre which they only teach & nothing more.
Normally the place itself was extremely crowded & goes up 250 student on combined classes & many people have already complained about the over-capacity but nothing has ever been done. (a good conversation point whenever I meet any ex-KSA student).
You need to fight for everything = toilet seat, water-cooler, class seats, notes, .....etc.
Think of it like "air-asia" culture which coincidentally the CEO is also an acca member.
The only thing that attracts the crowd is their low cost package which is quite economical when assessed with the lecturer popularity.

Sunway
Em i don't actually met many people in sunway for professional level except for P2.
Actually sunway is very beneficial for your progress in fundamental level but once you reach professional level you need to get off the nest to seek greener pasture. Although its still adequate but no longer superior.
Sunway have all the facilities you ever need (Ie : library) but you need to pay for them lo.
The fees in sunway can be considered quite expensive for acca & most part time students frown upon such things. SO if you want to study in a "study-friendly" environment you can definitely consider there.
Think of them like "MAS" but do you really need an expensive flight for just a short journey it depends on your preference.

If you want a safer route but slower is definitely degree first then acca.
If you have degree you will be exempted from all acca fundamental papers which many also didn't make it.
Unless you are very confident can try straight from CAT (just a precaution note : very few people never fail in entire acca course)

TAR is not a viable option since they don't offer degree, unless you are on very tight economic budget. the highest qualification you will get at TAR is advance diploma.

Actually i am quite curious how much is actually high marks ? (if > 80 marks then die lo,in acca i have only a few, if use CAT ok lo)
My marks are not consistent, some high some low some just average.
I have met a student who is currently working in a bank disclose that interviewer in bank is very peculiar in their interview.
They will personally question your mark like why this particular subject you scored lower than the rest.
And also like if you are applying for finance dividion but if your finance mark is not up to scratch they will also ask why.

CAT is already a sort of foundation. Other foundation could be like LCCI but not recommended.
Relax first & enjoy while you still can, you have been study for you whole life for 11 years isn't it.
Once you start acca and if you progress all the way through you will start work immediately then life is effective gone.
By the way ACCA course is not a good place to socialise or make friends as you will probably lose many friend along the way.
All the friends in my current level also admit very few of their batch make through.

Since you got 10A's i think you can handle long description do you ?
ACCA where got so expensive unless you take all at sunway.
ACCA course is definitely better than degree as in the payment for graduates is higher than degree holder by 15 - 20%.
All the degree students you met will end up taking acca course sooner or later in their life.
If you want more info you can check on newspaper clippings on job requirements.
Most of the time you will see "degree or professional qualification" acca belongs to the latter. But for high ranking job they want acca only or higher.
In your employment there is certain post that requires higher level of qualification : hence professional qualification to help your "promotion".

I don't really see problems with timing as only unethical or unprofessional lecturers will do that in frequent interval which is quite rare if you follow recommendations of the lecturers posted here. Most of the time they did it only once out of unavoided circumstances. Don't tell me you never ponteng class before . So your point is quite moot but its may be possible.

For fun factor if you always pass it will be fun but if you fail well its quite self explanatory. Its because most of the time you will be left to study on your own unlike in school days you have a teacher bossing you around (very rare in acca). Em just a reminder if you constantly pass & progress quite quickly you will find most of the friends may not able to follow your progress. My batch none did (sigh). That is because unlike programmes like doctor acca is very lax in their requirement in allowing students to enter for exam, this is their policy (in my own words)

"Anyone can join acca but not everyone will pass it". ACCA is renown for generating a lot funds from its members so the entry requirement is very successful since practically anyone can join but they set a very hard exam so they can still rake in the money without affecting quality so its not unheard of some students attempting the same paper for more than 5 times but still havent pass.

The cost above maybe inflated if you only check at sunway. My course so far taking in KL is only rougly RM 20 000 to RM 25000 including exam fees for uk at my final level. Scholarship in acca is very rare as its not a degree but just a qualification. ACCA never teach you anything but only let you take exam so you won't find any company giving scholarships as its not tax deductible too. Maybe company cna bond you but only as their employee. Anyway acca is qay cheaper compared to any degree you will find out there. All my relatives refuse to believe my parents that my course is faster & better than their children degree and at minimal cost. That is a fact of course.

If cost is a factor you may look for cheaper centres like MCO & KSA as its around half of you figure above. I heard sunway does give scholarship but if your results is very good or something. But scholarship never comes for free, you always need to repaid something (you will know later).

Well if you are considering scholarship try apply for few first like through STAR, Khazanah or apply directly from major college like Sunway, Taylor, Segi, Monash....etc.I get straight A1 in exam and I get a scholarship to study under Abertay Dundee for accountancy & finance through SEGI but its way even more expensive living & study in overseas & major college are quite reluctant to provide scholarship locally for reasons only known to them, all my friends go to US & UK more than those who get in MYS. But seriously acca is better than degree in many ways, if you are interested to learn more pm me. For more info on acca check link below :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_o...ied_Accountants

Almost forget something, cat is not difficult but acca is quite a different story. If you are brain dumping student which means you memorise verything in book & throw them back in exam its very difficult for you later on. You need to study smart by knowing how to apply things.
Anyway with hardwork & dedication everyone can make it. Congrats on your result too.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Mar 15 2009, 01:30 AM

To WallaceZAi & mastermosquito :
First of all I will explain how acca system works before I pump in the details, ok ?
Since you have followed so far, I will stretch longer so drink some coffee first ok

A) This is NOT a degree programme, then so what ?
The system works like your SPM exam & your trial SPM exam. Before you get your result for SPM you must have at least scour for scholarship or try for some college with your trial results right ?. Ok I will put the analogy in below first :
SPM exam = acca
Trial SPM exam = degree

1) Its because your trial exam will be depends on WHERE you take your exam, so this means it is your respective school. So college or universities will assess your trial based on your scool status : if premier or residential school got higher chance. Degree works the same way as every uni will have different ways in lecturing & degree structure. So your degree is also depending on WHERE you take. Of course there will be difference if you assess those who gets a MBA from Harvard compared to those who get it at local universities.

2) Once you sign up for a degree you will be sticking with that uni for your degree until you completed it. So you will have to follow whatever course structure or lecturer they assigned for you. So if your lecturer is incompetent or you dislike the uni culture then have to switch college already.

3) With current market degree programme is getting more expensive than usual so its not really economic to do so.

4) Ok this is actually the most important point i will be telling you now. All the degree counter you go to edu fair will be very reluctant to tell you this but if you ask any of those whom are already working they will be telling you this :
- a lot of graduates with degree anywhere already so degree reputation is no longer like last time
- degree is not enough to help your promotion in any company - need higher qualification like Master/ PHD or prof qualification.
- the problem of RECOGNITION, i will explain below but degree don't get you recognised, so why so important to get recognised - this is directly linked to why acca is recession proof, later below.


B) What is accountancy ?
Please don't confuse yourself those who only calculate money, those are cashier ok
Accountancy are split into many other division & considered the most versatile job in the world as almost everybody needs it.
You must heard why every company needs accountant but you lack the detail, so i will give you in these structure :
- tax service (required by Govt to submit every year)
- accountant service - reporting (Financial Statements) (required by Govt to submit every year)
- audit service (for listed company) (required by Govt to submit every year)
These 3 is the core in any company but mostly tax is outsource to BIG 4 but there are other things like Finance & budgeting is also under acca forte.
Ai so clumsy of me I forgotten to explain what is BIG4. Big 4 is 4 world largest accountancy firm in the world.
If you finish acca quickly with good result to support you may get employment in Big 4 very quickly, details below :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Four_auditors

Accountancy actually nothing to boast about compared to engineering or doctors or even lawyers right ? Don't worry all big corporate leaders you see up there all started with accountancy like Tony Fernandes in Air-asia or the Khazanah CEO (investment arm for Govt). If you are very callibre you can easily climb up the corporate ladder from accountant position :
Example : manager, general-manager, chief accountant- financial controller- director- CEO- Managing director, consultant....etc
I don't think engineer or doctor can climb to those position don't they, these 2 are quite specialised but accountant is like a platform for you to jump.

C) ACCA
As i said the most important thing is RECOGNITION, it means if you are recognised you can practically work in almost every part of the world with the same level of respect shown with othe acca holders from more advance countries (UK). Thats because the system work this way :
1) ACCA don't teach you at all, they only let you to take their exam
2) You can choose how to study by these 3 route
- choose your own lecturer
- choose a university & stay there until finish acca
- self study
You can choose your own mode of study but ultimately you need to take the same exam like everyone does like how SPM work. You can study in the jungle or school or private college for that matter. You can come from urban cities or countryside area but all of you sit for the same exam. So if you get good results for SPM no matter where you go people will respect you. But that cannot be said about you trial result which maybe different from other school.

So ACCA is quite recession proof unlike other occupation (with degree at least). If MYS are cutting job you can go to CHINA, if china cutting job you go singapore lo. Is very rare to see unemployed acca graduate. Most of the time you are not looking for job but people are looking for you.

D) ACCA route
Ok with all the basics done I will explain more in detail here :
There is grading in acca which they will state your marks in your transcript (to be transparent unlike our SPM).
So if you have high grades your chances of getting employed will be very high.
But sadly acca have a lot of failures as well as the normal pass rate is average 60% for part 1 (F1 to F3) 40% for part 2 & part 3 (F4 to P7)
So if like 100 people went for class only around 40 make it but that is following the world pass rate. In MYS our pass rate is always 10% less.
So only around 30 make through. But don't worry with genuine hardwork its not hard to pass but students are easily sway with freedom given.

This is how I start my acca : I will exclude study techniques
After rejecting the scholarship bcos I get exemplary advice from top corporate figure (from my parent company) that acca is the way to go in future
so I enroll in one of the college for CAT in FTMS. Please don't consider there for CAT Sunway is the best place to teach CAT for now. Mine is a mistake. After few papers I realised that some lecturers are not up to standard but there is one particular lecturer which is very good until student from other college also joined his class. With that in mind I come to learn "CHOOSING LECTURER BASED"

After finish CAT & with all my marks above 80 under that lecturer I decided to choose my own lecturer insteas of following blindly any college.
So i scour around until I found this forum which recommend good lecturers (first post) and with my own research & from friends advice I choose my respective lecturer. Now i am at final level already.

Sunway is good place for CAT but less so for advance acca programme so after completing cat you should come out and look for best lecturer around. If you want the best you need to work hard for it. Like any food expert they will find their favourite food at hawkers street or in the market compared to places like KLCC or food court which most of time is cooked by assistant or maid.

I can go further but for now I think its quite enough for you to decide. There are other professional qualifications like CFA, ICAEW, CIMA,CPA
but taking acca is the most convenient as there is adequate no of lecturers around & its lax requirement plus with its global recognition.
One more thing if you are smart student you will notice your class is filled with students from all kind of background from those who are very clever & not so clever so try to adjust accordingly

Well lecturers don't mind at all as they perfectly understand student who pays has every right to choose their own lecturer. The more experienced & more reputational don't mind at the very least even if you take only 1 paper at his college as long as you take under him.
College loyaly is almost nil in acca lore.
Although less experienced lecturer or not so famous one may dislike these type of students since students will not normally choose them as lecturer.

If you are independent you can take your papers with all different lecturer from different college but if you want consistency & fear of changes just stick with your old college. But for professional level its best to stick with the lecturer you knew or experienced before unless he is no longer teaching.

By your style of enquiry I deduced you never switch college / lecturer b4 ?

Em not exactly.
You will have freedom / right to decide on this 3 matters independently :
1) Lecturer
2) Exam centre
3) No of paper or type of paper

Sunway is a bit different since they are large enough to have their own regulations in place but under normal circumstances you can take it almost anywhere you want. I know the concept is a bit alien to you right now since in normal school concept you are bound by what the school has assigned for you including teachers.

Think of acca like a tuition centre. The body of acca will provide only exam to you while you need to find your own mode of study to tackle it be it finding a lecturer or self study. Then you can select your own lecturer from your own preference from the college you prefer (as long as you can make it). If you want "Mat salleh" as lecturer its up to you also.

Career in accounting is quite varied by everyone's opinion & judgement but it depends on your level of capability.
Accountant serves the lowest foundation compared to other professionals like lawyers, doctors & engineers with lesser salary & recognition in the beginning.
But accountancy has a very high return in the long term & it was the direct passport to higher echelons of the corporate ladder. To be manager / director / boss / CEO or any top level executive you must possess knowledge in accountancy / finance. If you see annual CEO / CFO meeting in MYS majority of them has background in accountant. Its quite hard to expect engineer or doctor to rise to such occasion.

However such illusion only limited to the very exceptional few. If you are capable you can go very far with accountancy but if you are not you are stuck forever with it. Successful ones with begin to climb the corporate ladder or setup their own business.

But job prospect in lower rung of accountancy is overflow since LCCI / Diploma / CAT / degree is sufficient for them to be employed. Only the upper rung which requires higher qualification & some years of experience is on demand.

That is P4 one of the 4 advance paper in acca. Don't worry you will ony reach this paper in > 2 yrs. You can also choose to avoid this paper all together as you are only required to choose 2 out of the 4 optional paper.

I think the problem with F5 is that it is considered to be easy in to be included in professional level but seems al little too difficult in lower level so it was pretty much caught in the limbo. A friend of mine after attending P1 & P3 class felt like the knowledge she gained there facilitate easier preparation for F5 compared to precedent knowledge in T7 in CAT.

I think this problem in F5 was caused by student mentality as well since other papers in lower level also carried some predictable questions every sitting : If you answer these area well you are practically pass already.
F4 = Half is consist of company law & social / biz law
F6 = Tax is always comes with company tax, personal tax & some tax admin
F7 = Consol, ratio / cash flow & published a/c
F8 = SP or TOC & some audit procedures stuff
F9 = Hard to predict but major topics around 5 & exam ask around 3 or 4 so its also quite predictable.

With that in mind F5 students carried with same assumption that if you have read / covered that chapter & if it does come out you can practically scored as syllabus in lower levels are quite general. Come to advance level everything becomes very speciifc & detailed so even if you cover a topic but inside that topic there is multiple things to be tested. F5 works with similar way.

That depends on 2 major factor :
1) The type of company you are working with
2) Your capability to effectively manage to balance your work with studies.

If you are working with large firms especially dealing with accountancy / tax / finance / audit line they will be more lenient & helpful in accomodating with your studies. If i am not mistaken firms like PWc & BDO encourage such employees by letting them to go back early for classes.
Some company may be less understanding so you may burnout from work overload if such circumstances arises & you may find study a lot more difficult.

Many find it very difficult to juggle their life between work & studies (unless the job is very stress free). Not one i heard that study-work part time did not struggle with their studies. Eventually you will hear many people will start to blame something for their failure in thier exam. If they cannot blame their lecturer then they will use working status as an excuse.

You can definitely choose this route but it is very long & demanding.

Well I don't know much about sunway but if you want to take in Kl from CAT level it will not match sunway.
Exam fees (Uk pound) + centre fees (RM) for entire acca package (inculding CAT) = cost you around RM 25,000 to Rm 30,000 excluding living & accomodation expenses & transportation cost.
CAT < Rm 10000 , F4 to F9 : RM 8000 - RM 10000 , P1 to P7 : RM 8000 - RM 10000 which already includes Uk exam fees.

You don't have to go to sunway to take all their papers but I seriously recommend CAT to familiarise with the foundation. After that you can jump.



This post has been edited by Topace111: Mar 27 2009, 08:52 PM

Well the factor of passing acca is no longer relevant these days only scoring. Good luck newbies

Touche, must handle the burden of getting prize for the new successors.
I have received an acca email :
"If you already have excellent financial English skills, why not demonstrate these to potential employers with the Cambridge International Certificate in Financial English (Cambridge ICFE)? Cambridge ICFE is a unique qualification offered by the University of Cambridge ESOL Examinations (English for Speakers of Other Languages) and ACCA."

Any opinion regarding this ?