There are people who prefer sunway lecturers but it was drowned by more "cost orientated student". I think you must be misled by the assumption that if it have "Platinum status" it must comprise the very best of lecturers = this is general misconception. Previously sunway do accumulate some of the best lecturers but most of them already left & becomes the recommended lecturers you have read & seen.

How to determine a good lecturer ? This is a very subjective issue indeed. We normally go for students feedback as student is the best performance measure for lecturers effectiveness. According to Kotter you will spread the good product (ie : lecturer) to 3 person while spreading bad product to 11 person. So i think you will get a general picture of why so few of sunway lecturers make the list.
I met a few students who judge lecturers performance based on the pass rate of student. For this i truly admire sunway for their exemplary performance. However one must understand sunway does have the tendency to "push'" the student to study while most centres in KL let the students to decide : the level of flexibility is enourmous.

If i mentioned that i have attended all the lecturers class i don't even think you will believe me isn't it. Its either i am very bored or i have failed countless times to try new lecturers (sorry to say that i have not failed any papers yet) so i try very limited no of lecturers. However i have suffered some very bad experience with incompetent lecturers which forced me to look for very best around. I normally research heavily before i choose any respective lecturer.

How to judge ? I think the first 3 criteria i have already mentioned above is very subjective and unfair comparison. Sunway does have the most prize winner in malaysia no doubt about that but only in CAT currently. ACCA always lessen the paper difficulty & pass rate 2 syllabus before the it ended & started to give room for student to maneouvre. No surprise sunway students churned out the best prize winne rduring that time zone but created none in last seating (no offence to anybody around , merely highligthing the fact). As i have already mentioned Kl centres never force the students to study so imagine during your SPM the teacher never give you homework & spent only 6 months to teach instead of 11 months.

Class size is really the weakest link. You should try parmindar at Kl, goes up to 400 at revision with students from all around malaysia.
Next you touch on the lecturer itself. The first 3 is about his professionalism. Very few are noted for humour since there is nothing funny about acca but most can make th cut (but don't expect Mr bean in your class). They will not really wear tux to teach if that is what you are asking.
Your last 2 indicator serves the best measure : for this i have to acknowledge KL lecturers since most of them have wider experience & exposure compared to sunway lecturers. If you want to know more in detail please PM me since this can go for few pages if i am in the mood.

Your last 2 sentence generally highlight the most essential block of acca : Substance over form.
There are many lecturers whom does appear to be very famous, presentable, .......... However once you truly experienced them its but of an empty shell. Therefore before i choose any lecturer i will carefully filter out these lecturers from the contention. I really don't want to point out the "You know Who" since i was kinda worried about defamation. However i can reveal the top lecturer (which you can not go wrong) from each centres :
FTMS : Daniel Ho
MCO : Haneef
KSA : Parmindar
KB : Chin ann
There are others but these are the ones i endorsed & guarantee their quality.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jan 22 2009, 11:11 AM

Well the pressure to study is one of the best motivator to progress forward. If i am not mistaken sunway students followed normal college policies where students are required to study for a considerable amount of time. Well most lectures in KL only have one class per week (only 3 hours including break time). If i am not mistaken, my sunway friend told me he study 4 times that amount for his P2 class with menon. That is to say a student who studies without lecturer is even worse since he had to manage his own time or busted.

KL lecturer have tried / want / resorted to / willing to "push" the student but most that attended the class have different agenda of their own. Some come with heavy enthusiasm, some just wanting to pass, some just bcos of following friends around, some required by the company, ......etc.
There are even some students who are older than the lecturer and its not easy to impose such will like school kids. Homework needs to be constantly marked & unlike sunway lecturers who work full time, most lecturers are working part time or acting as freelance. Example :

Viknes (F4 lecturer) has to juggle class with his law firm
Phillip woo (F8 & P1) has to juggle class with his company work (hence weekend class)
Daniel Ho (F9 & P4) has to juggle south east asia & hong kong.
Haneef teach in 2 college KDU & MCO while Chin ann teach at KB & JB.

ACCA is purely self initative paper & if student can maintain their level of discipline on their own & triumph they also should be in work. You can read those acca magazines about prize winners, they don't need fancy universities or lecturers to pass they just have to rely on themselves. Therefore they can also transfer this experience to their work (not just touch & go).

I don't think anyone is will think lecturer quality is not an issue here. Quality is the most important but one must also consider other factors as well which is why i highlight the cost. For example there is a restaurant in KLCC which cater penang foods for consumption at premium prices (let say RM 12 for a bowl of laksa). There is of course the hawkers at penang selling its own tasty laksa for merely RM3 (quoted from newspaper recently). So the simple philospohy is :
WHY PAY MORE FOR LESS , the mathematical equation is simply why pay more for something which only equals a quarter of what you can get. (1/4)

By the way i fell very intrigued when some people utter the statement why everybody here is anti-sunway. Well i have not seen anything even remotely that somebody is criticising sunway. The only thing that lacks are praises or recommendation. I don't think when somebody is not praising you or telling something good about you is actually criticising you (that is another different matter entirely). When a lecturer does not make the recommended lest doesn't mean he is not good just that there is better lecturers out there. Is Hillary clinton good i think so but Obama seems to be the better candidate (thats the basic philosophy).

Its quite logical in marketing sense.
When you are strong you will stay silent (since everyone is aware of it). Therefore brands like Coke & Mcd doesn't need aggresive ads.
When its the other way around you need to make a lot of noise to be heard / acknowledged hence the "supporters".
My loyalty to any centre / college / univerisites is almost neglibible since i am "lecturer based"

You should go to FTMS I never failed to get a room for self study.
I think student satisfaction is a very very minimal objective in the eyes of KSA overall goal. Its always market share = more student = more income.
I don't think even most lecturers teaching there would like the environment but forced to bcos :
- KSA offer the most performance related pay to lecturer (according to student ratio)
- with some reputable lecturers around, incompetent lecturer performance would hardly get noticed (borrow the brand name)

I don't know about others but i find KSA environment is very tense & uncomfortable like everybody is rushing to study once arrived. Its almost like if you don't study along or with the same level of dedication you will also fail. Brrrr i got this phobia even during my secondary school days when i see a lot of people so hardworking (overdoze) around i got really stressed. Thats why i always study at home or somewhere very quiet & relaxing.

I thought you guys mentioned before that he stop teaching few seatings back, bcos lack of students unless sunway pay him a big salary to accomodate the oppurnity cost. I wonder his teachings is still the same compared to previous seatings.
His situation is quite similar to keith Farmer & if i am not mistaken he is not teaching when P6 is introduced only the previous paper (3. something)
Hopefully i am wrong though.

Ok i will assume you will pass all your cat papers when feb 16 comes.
F4 : You have not study any part of it in cat so you will begin afresh. This paper requires a lot of memory power if you want to pass & score. Understanding is not so important here but if you study law like that i guarantee you will fall asleep in 1.5 hours.

F5 : Now this is very grave satistics for you. F5 has generate less than 30% pass rate in 2 seatings = its the killer paper in fundamental levels.
What you learn in T7 may be quite similar to F5 but the answer structure is very different already. Your cat focuses more on calculational but in f5 they expect more explanation with figures to support. So they may ask back the same question but you need to write a lot more.

F6 : Good news for you what you study in CAT almost cover > 80% of F6 syllabus. The only new area is corporate tax which you must master with personal computations. Apart from that the theory is very similar.

If you wish to reveal your lecturers i may tell about their preference / methods. (if study before only)

Revenue expenses = expenses which is revenue in nature which is also called revenue expenditure normally meant for recurring expenses
(Ie : maintenance of assets)
Deferred revenue expenses means an expense which is going to be incurred in the forseeable future. Treatment is very similar to provision.
Hope this is what you are looking for.

Don't worry too much about annual fees payment as long as you pay every year (they won't dare to interfere with their cash cow)
Its a normal tactic used by many people out there especially based on the assumption that all of us are bad debtors.
So they will set a stricter date to forced you to pay earlier than expected, if you pay early then its their gain.
Example :
You want a YB / MP to arrive at 2.00 pm for your function.
However you expect them to arrive at 3.00 p.m (VIP always like that)
So you invite them at 1.00 pm, if they came early its better still, even if they do come late by 1 hour its still within time limit.

1) Degree then ACCA
Ok normally people that i asked will only take acca after their degree its because they HAVE NEVER HEARD about acca before or very little knowledge about them. Then when i asked more thoroughly most of them will not take their respective degree if they are aware about acca.
If your degree is very good at the first place why pursue acca then (usefulness is quite limited). However there are certain firms like big 4 which put more emphasis on students with a degree first (university experience = team working, project management, presentation ,.......). ACCA is just an exam so it can't help students much on this area.

2) CAT to ACCA
This is a faster approach provided you pass all the papers (best case scenario). However if you are stuck with any papers & you decided to stop then CAT is all you got. However acca recognise this problem & offer a back-up plan for students in the form of OBU degree. If your average mark for part 2 papers (F4 to F9) reach a certain percentage you will qualify for 1st or 2nd class degree. You need to submit a project / thesis roughly in 1 - 2 months to be marked and the grade will also be taken in equation to grade your degree.

3) Degree vs ACCA
Most of the time employer will pick acca first but seriously it depends on the individual performance & capability (seriously i think this outweigh any qualification).

4) Degree + ACCA vs ACCA alone
Guarantee employer will pick the degree with acca (but again depends on your capability). However you will roughly spend 5 - 6 years for the former compared to pure acca from minimum 2 - 3 years (best case scenario)

5) Degree + ACCA vs ACCA + OBU
Seriously still the first one prevail but you really don't need double qualification unless you want to apply for higher post in your career, normally graduate will start from small post then progress through the hierarchy. No boss in this world will hire to you to be a manager after you graduate unless you father owns the company or you are the son of "You know who".

One negative thing about acca (my perception only) is that you will find it very difficult to explain to your countless relatives & friends what is ACCA, where you study, when you finished, what job you will get......... . I have faced endless torrents of these questions in CNY from my cousins who are most based in engineering. So i have to explain one by one from the very beginning, they keep pestering me about why i have to study at 3 different college you see.

Chow did not left but choose to continue with F9 instead (reason is unknown), he is still teaching in Mco.
Since Chow no longer teaching F5 it seem irrelevant to mentioned his teaching methods, so i will dwell more on andrew pang.
Andrew focus more on calculation compared to theory, he will only highlight the important theory part and ask you to read back at home.
No lecturer in KL will ask you to do homework, so you need to buck up yourself.
F5 is literally new paper and past year question is quite limited & some lecturers borrowed question from CIMA or higher level.

The reason many people failed F5 not bcos its difficult but rather the mentality in approaching it. For example in my P3 exam (its a theory paper) i will prepared my answer in more explanation based compared to figures since most marks will derived from explanation. However in exam there are some candidate will spend a lot of time to prepare the figures from tables (it is given), so i was wondering why prepare something which even examiner felt is insignificant.

For F5 it is the most difficult paper in F level but comes to professional P5 seems to be the easiest. The reason not bcos of the difficulty in content but rather the technic in answering. If everyone has a mentality of 75% theory + 25% calculation to F5 exam they should normally pass if compared to the other way around.

There is also Mr Low in Kolej Bandar who balanced in theory & calculation but like i said it depends on your self effort. If you want more questions to practice try buying BPP & Kaplan book or engage in P5 material, it is quite similar to F5 in certain areas.

Oh i think costing is quite difficult in lower level (the lowest passing rate in 2 seatings does not help either).
Like i mentioned before that different people have different difficulties, mine is definitely costing (its the only paper i have scored below 60 mark radar). But i also agreed audit is quite hard to score since one must really know everything from something.
If exam asked for steps to audit stock & syllabus account 10 of it then you must really explain ten steps to gain full marks. Thats why i never fully read & memorise all those ausit steps (or i will died from mental exhaustion)

Exam results 2 weeks more to go.....sigh......sigh......sigh.......sigh

For the first 2 lecturer you mentioned for finance i have something to share.
Both are not finance speciallist in nature & they do not carry on with the same paper in professional level.
Chow continues with P5 not P4. So if you want to carry on with finance in optional paper i suggest you go to a lecturer who does continue with it.
Between the 2 i think Mr Chow is more experienced & reputable but there are better candidates.

Joe fang methods focus mostly on the calculational part in F7 which focus on consolidation. His theoretical explanation is not on par with other more established lecturers around. You can still consider him for F7 but when comes to P2 & just relying on superiority in calculational is very difficult business indeed. One more thing i heard from my friends that attended his class :

If you cannot adjust to his methods than its very hard for you to pass since he will use his own methods / calculation techniques not the presribed method by the syllabus. If you can adapt then you can do well if not or you are from another different reporting lecturer its gonna be hard.

One thing i realise from reporting is that is fast becoming theory unlike in the past is quite calculational. Another thing that you really should follow the same lecturer for F & P level or you will have a lot of problem adjusting & adapting later on. Just passsing the message from my other friends who have regreted switching lecturers & learn it the hard way in exam.

P1 & P3 seems ok since it was quite general in nature.
But P2 is always the major obstacle for "degree converts". Most of my friend were quite confident when heading to exam but sooner realise how difficult it was when everything they learned is not coming out / very different question. It happens all the time since acca wants extra membership in their body (more money). Thats why acca have so many students every year (they offer exemption to everything including SPM).

CFA have so little students around bcos offer 0 exemption.

I also never attend his class although most of my friends "did".
Sometimes we will gathered around and shared our experience with respective lecturer.
Somehow he prefers the way to explain the standards by quoting too much "practical example" but lack the substance of the standards.
He will asked the students to prepare the exam answer "his way" which claimed by KSA itself that students can finished within 30 minutes for consol.

A friend of mine who was interested by the hype & there are many others friends tagging along at KSA, i was left alone pursuing F7 at Mco. (kinda lonely that time). It seems that Joe Fang has met the examiner himself and showed his calculational techniques which was acceptable by the examiner. Therefore he start drilling the students with his methods in class. It seems that his students always emerge as the fastest finisher of the question & claim its almost always 100% guaranteed "balance".

Therefore he will publish a heavy text book to his students laden heavy with questions & past year (with his method of answering of course)
It seems the the structure & style of examiner's way of answering is quite different from his but the final answer is the same.
If i am not mistaken he will not explain how he teach but just show how he will do it in class so most of the time students will get lost & really need to concentrate to understand.

The reason most of my friends disagreed with his methods its because the answer structure was designed in such a way its very risky.
If you can answer or understand the question very very well then you possibly can get high marks in the calculational portion but no the theory in expalnation. Its because THERE ARE NO WORKINGS. Its just cross here & there and magicly derived a final figure.

So if you don't know one standard = 0 mark. Even if you know there are many standards in P2 its quite hard to know everything. Its always either 0 or full mark. Under Haneef its the other way around since he will expect student not to know everything so he will drill students to get all the basic mark and minimum marks to grab & i have discovered in exam its plenty around. Even if you don't know how to answer but you got the principle right you always bound to get 3 - 4 marks out of 5.

There are some people claimed haneef doesn't have any short cut techniques or fast tips. I think he does know all this but chose not to since "if there is a shortcut why not everybody use it" principle. Haneef method is always right whenever somebody uses it so one does not have to worry in exam. In Joe fang method however if exam qs come out exactly the same they you can score. But how about if they release something so different than what you expect (you gotta admire Graham Holt for this). Just one final thing to add, Haneef likes to impersonate as an examiner & always praise the examiner cunningness in exam. He always mentioned to us which question have "5 star rating".

One thing i do admit about haneef his nagging is ten times worse than all my grandparents combined (even thats an understatement !!!)

Well if you don't mind why not reveal how menon teach ? If you have not step foot outside sunway then i never step in

Well thats the type of reply i expected.
I always heard how good is she but always the one sentence remarks.
Some differences i can certainly highlight :
- haneef class is always twice per week (total 6 hours)
- no homework (since no one would do)
- less emphasise on the lesser & formality = the final figure / total / net amount.
- focus more on understanding than memorisation.

He always went for the most difficult stuff & circumstances that if comes out most will fail.
I can define him in one word "details".
He put extreme importance on the wordings, technic and format so he will give all the necessary details. Normal standard = 1 class. Important standard = 2 - 3 class. He cover my ratio & cash flow in just 5 hours for my F7. Standards can go for days if necessary.

Normally student ask question during break time / after class . WHY ?
He will not tolerate nod as an answer but ask you back with a different version but same principle. So student normally guaranteed to get their answer for their own question. Its like you ask why 1 + 2 = 3 he will ask you back like why 2 + 1 = 3 then he will let you go. So each question can go as long as 15 minutes per student.

P2 is not that heavy actually but one must need knowledge in F7 too. Since he normally assume student to have zero knowledge he usually bring back some of the F7 stuff to class. P2 is not a stand alone expansion but a direct expansion from F7 so don't just simply forget or touch & go.

Well i find it quite rare for a sunway student to actually criticise its own university policy. Normally its the other way around.
I don't have a single homework until now, thats why i find my own drills, exercise and other practice like create a personal summarised note.
I think thats what gives me slight competitive edge compared to others .
Result less than 10 days away now.

Everytime i read anything about P1 - P3 i always got goosebumps. The first few weeks i was quite confident & relaxed now after all the negative & gloomy predictions I felt terribly anxious now. Should go to church soon or something ........

This post has been edited by Topace111: Feb 6 2009, 07:06 PM

Over confidence has caused me a lot of troubles in the past so best to be prudent.
Best to dream big but expect low so any heartbreak one can tolerate but any gargantuan windfall one can savour.
Yeah i am a full time student alright albeit a very young one.
Best not to talk about result or i will soon scare myself to death.

service is meant more to liabilities = pay interest on debt (which is also listed in oxford dictionary)
Another meaning of service is to maintain the receivables but the word doesn't match with rights.
By the way are you self study ?
It bcos i think its way easier to ask your lecturer about such thing. If you pick up the word from text book there is likelihood that its mistaken. Even in my BPP text book for P2 i have detected a lot of anomalies with my lecturer.

So far i have not encountered anyone claiming acca to be easy (even prize winners don't)
Prize winners are those people who get the highest mark for any paper they sat compared with other students around the world.
You won't find anyone who will be giving you a stat for straight - passer since acca gives 100 % freedom on how you want to take it :
- you can self study
- you can go to universities
- you can go to smaller college
- you can have self tutor = one on one lecturer
The list is endless as there are many other alternatives.

ACCA is not the toughest paper in accountancy or financial line if you want to know.
CFA, CIMA & ICAEW is commonly accepted as the tougher professional qualification however they are less recognised & globally accepted compared to ACCA. Nothing is perfect on this world or else everybody will pursue a single ambition.

Straight passer is nothing significant if you use examples like this :
You may failed one paper but you scored over 90 in all other papers
Compared to a straight passer who just average around 60 marks.
You will be the judge. Is like asking god who should go to heaven : a corrupted evangelist or good hearted asssassin.
I get straight as in my spm does that make me a better candidate than those who didn't i don't think so, i know a friend who scored over 90s in all exam but ended up getting b in one tough paper, if take average marks you may find that is better evaluation.

For the part of acca difficulty if you get average mark of 68 for 6 of the required fundamental levels you will get a first class honours equivalent in most degrees in uk. Even degree holders may find acca tougher than their respective degrees than expected. One more thing acca gives student option to take up to maximum 4 papers per sitting. So how can you compared with those who take 1 or 2 paper per sitting compared to those who have taken four.

If you have read until this far you will realise how irrelevant your entire statement to begin with.

---

Added on February 9, 2009, 7:14 pmIn exam for lower levels you need to have good mathematics to score.
But when comes to higher level you can calculate all wrongly but if you have good principle you should be fine (except finance & tax).

In real life when working :
Junior level = cannot afford to have major mistake or you will be grind out by superiors (ac execs, executives, assistant)
middle level = you will be the one doing the review & checking = so if maths is average you fail to detect some mistakes & you will be grind by your superior. (manager, chief accoutant, accountant)
Top level = no need to care since you have other more pressing matters. (CEO, CFO, financial controller)

Anything requring less mathematical skills is not core area of accoutancy to begin with :
Law = more for lawyers
Professional accountant = more on your ethics (like moral in SPM)
Biz analysis = more for MBA stuff
Audit = in exam there is no / few calculations but in real world it is not so.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Feb 9 2009, 07:18 PM