wiper size - dunno leh...gotta check at jusco for the bosch wipers - got state the size for savvy..
Nice reviews..
[url]Link removed on author's request[/url]
Being on the lookout for a small car lately, wifey and I have been doing a lot of test driving and so far the cars I have tested include the Naza Bestari 206, Suzuki Swift, Hyundai Getz, Proton Savvy, Perodua Myvi and even the just-launched-last-Friday Hyundai i10. From all that driving 3 things stood out...
Number 1: the Bestari 206 is noisy. This is surprising as being a Peugeot owner, I expected the Europeans to be the most refined of the bunch. True, it generated no notable wind and road noise, but the engine noise was thrashy, coarse and the worst part is you need to thrash it to get any acceleration, so you'll be living with the noise a good portion of the time. The engine? Let's just say that this is so last century. It's weak, and aside from the decent torque arriving at an astonishing 2800rpm, nothing nice to say about it. It clearly lacked the punch to power the 206, and the autobox blunted that even more. The noise I already mentioned is almost always there, and the amount of noise when you floor the pedal is nowhere near the acceleration you get. Handling was good, though there was quite a bit of body roll in typical Pug fashion, but don't be fooled, the limits are still quite far off. Ride comfort was okay, a bit firmer than I expected. Built quality was good as far as I could tell, with no weird noises from the interior, though gaps were uneven here and there.
Number 2: the Savvy is shockingly good. Again, I say shockingly as the response towards this car hasn't been exactly good, and most buyers gravitated towards the Myvi instead. After driving it I'd say that they don't know what they're missing... Refinement was very good for its class, and engine noise remained relatively muted, road noise and wind noise nothing to complain about. But the biggest surprise was the ride comfort and handling. It simply blew all the others (maybe tying the Swift) into the weeds. Damping was good, and even on the construction riddled Subang airport road it remained well behaved and bad roads were more heard than felt. And despite all that steering felt the best, very responsive and quick with decent heft. Reminds me of my old Satria Gti actually... Who says the Lotus association hasn't paid big dividends??? Power was actually decent despite the lowest on paper ratings, most likely due to the lack of a power-sapping torque converter. Engine noise was fine, no coarser or noisier than the Koreans. The technology in a car of this price is astounding, AMT aside, it comes with Drive-By-Wire. Best thing is however the reported fuel consumption, which is claimed to be up to 18km/L! Even after discounting the optimism in the testing, I figured you'd still end up with around 13-14km/L, which is still a lot. In auto mode the gearshifts were a bit slow as the ECU was retarded a bit too much I'd think, so you actually feel a bit of a jerk. In manual mode it also exhibited similar behavious, but after a while I got used to it and learned to release the accelerator a bit when shifting, which then made gearchanges as smooth as it could be with a normal manual box. Truth be told both wifey and I had a lot of fun in the car. To put things into perspective, similar AMT boxes such as the Selespeed and the Smart car generate a similar if not worse jerky behaviour, but once you get used to the release pedal thingy, it's fine. You wouldn't shift gears in a normal manual car with the accelerator pedal on full bore anyway, so I suppose we can't expect any different from the AMT. The interior was the only thing that bothered me. It was very plasticky, though the quality of the plastics were not that bad, and I've actually seen worse in a car costing nearly twice its price (I won't say which...) but to its credit, everything was intuitively laid out and fell to hand naturally. Pedals were also laid out properly unlike the 206 which seemed to be skewed to one side. But they could have at least put some cloth at the doors like the Saga lah... At the end of the day it's great in every way (plastics galore and size aside), and the only suspect is the reliability problems that have plagued Proton. Though recently quality has gone up a notch, there's still some way to go. The TUV certification and 5-year warranty does go some way towards addressing our scepticism though...
Number 3: the Hyundai i10 is a great car for its size. I expected a car that size (and truth be told to be tincan-like and clunky to drive. Nothing could be further from the truth. Refinement was great; road and wind noise well suppressed, and damping is very good. Feels like a much bigger car. Of course handling suffers due to the height of the car, but nothing really bad. Just felt a bit wobbly at higher speeds. Interior room was also superb, considering its size. One trick that made its legroom feel bigger was to make occupants sit straighter and higher, which it effortlessly did with its high roof (the car is as tall as a Myvi!!!). I suppose for short commutes this is fine, but it would get very tiring to sit like you're on a straight backed bench after a while.
And the rest? The Getz was actually the most well rounded of the lot, with a decent engine, decent handling, decent comfort and decent interior. Decent everything in fact, but nothing that stands out as being particularly bad or good. Not a bad approach really, look at Toyota...
The Swift was clearly the most well built, though by a slim margin. Interior plastics looked fine but didn't feel good, being in some places nastier than the Savvy plastics, and felt curiously hollow. Engine noise was not good, and being one of the cars in this group with variable valve timing, power was just adequate. Comfort was also not a standout, though handling felt at the top of the group bar the Savvy which felt more nimble. Surprisingly, the Savvy's wheelbase is longer than the Swift, though by a smidgen, it's still something you'd never be able to tell from just looking at both.
The Myvi was just plain disappointing. It handles like a strand of wet noodle, it isn't particularly comfortable, and built quality was just so-so. The engine was coarse and loud, was not powerful, and road noise was very memorable. Also, word is around that the fuel consumption is awful, in some cases with people claiming it costs about as much as their Wira 1.5, a car that is about 15 years older, is carburettored, has a 3 speed auto, and weighs about the same. The only reason why anyone should buy it is because of the perceived reliability of Peroduas. To make matters worse, it isn't cheap. I would say there is no reason, under any circumstance, that anyone should buy it, but the Myvi fanboys would come at me real quick. Just witness the mindless "Myvi rules..." posting in local forums...
What will we be buying? Well, we already have a big car, and wifey just need it to commute to and from work, and our priority is in not getting into any more debt. Take a guess...
This post has been edited by hypermount: Aug 4 2008, 09:11 PM
Here's the updated version. The link to his blog was removed on his request.. Looking at small cars... Being on the lookout for a small car lately, wifey and I have been doing a lot of test driving and so far the cars I have tested include the Naza Bestari 206, Suzuki Swift, Hyundai Getz, Proton Savvy, Perodua Myvi and even the just-launched-last-Friday Hyundai i10. From all that driving 3 things stood out...
Number 1: the Bestari 206 is noisy. This is surprising as being a Peugeot owner, I expected the Europeans to be the most refined of the bunch. True, it generated no notable wind and road noise, but the engine noise was thrashy, coarse and the worst part is you need to thrash it to get any acceleration, so you'll be living with the noise a good portion of the time. The engine? Let's just say that this is so last century. It's weak, and aside from the decent torque arriving at an astonishing 2800rpm, nothing nice to say about it. It clearly lacked the punch to power the 206, and the autobox blunted that even more. The noise I already mentioned is almost always there, and the amount of noise when you floor the pedal is nowhere near the acceleration you get. Handling was good, though there was quite a bit of body roll in typical Pug fashion, but don't be fooled, the limits are still quite far off. Ride comfort was okay, a bit firmer than I expected. Built quality was good as far as I could tell, with no weird noises from the interior, though there were some uneven gaps some places.
Number 2: the Savvy is shockingly good. Again, I say shockingly as the response towards this car hasn't been exactly good, and most buyers gravitated towards the Myvi instead. After driving it I'd say that they really are missing out on quite a bit... Refinement was good for its class, and engine noise remained relatively muted, road noise and wind noise nothing to complain about. But the biggest surprise was the ride comfort and handling. It simply blew all the others (maybe tying the Swift) into the weeds. Damping was good, and even on the construction riddled Subang airport road it remained well behaved and bad roads were more heard than felt. And in spite of the comfy ride, handling was close to spot-on. Steering feel was great, very responsive and quick with decent heft. Reminds me of my old Satria Gti actually... Who says the Lotus association hasn't paid big dividends??? Only damper here was the steering material, it wasn't exactly nice to touch... Power was actually decent despite the lowest on paper ratings, most likely due to the lack of a power-sapping torque converter. Engine noise was fine, no coarser or noisier than the Koreans. Best thing is however the reported fuel consumption, which is claimed to be up to 18km/L! Even after discounting the optimism in the testing, I figured you'd still end up with around 13-14km/L, which is still a lot. In auto mode the gearshifts had a bit of a lag as the ECU was retarded a bit too much, so you actually feel a quite a bit of a jerk. In manual mode it also exhibited similar behaviour, but after a while I got used to it and learned to release the accelerator a bit when shifting, which then made gearchanges as smooth as it could be with a normal manual box. Truth be told both wifey and I had a lot of fun in the car. To put things into perspective, similar AMT boxes such as the Selespeed and the Smart car generate a similar if not worse jerky behaviour, but once you get used to the release pedal thingy, it's fine. I've driven both, and let's just say that the first time I drove the Smart ForTwo, I felt quite ill by the end of the spin around the block! You wouldn't shift gears in a normal manual car with the accelerator pedal on full bore anyway, so I suppose we can't expect any different from the AMT. The interior was probably the only place where it lost points. It was very plasticky, ESPECIALLY the door panels, though the quality of the plastics were not that bad, and I've actually seen worse in a car costing nearly twice its price (I won't say which...) but compared to the pretty i10 dash and the stylishly simple Swift, looked quite dowdy. To its credit, everything was intuitively laid out and fell to hand naturally. Pedals were also laid out properly unlike the 206 which seemed to be skewed to one side. But they could have at least put some cloth at the doors like the Saga lah... At the end of the day it's nice in most ways (plastics galore and size aside), and the only suspect is the reliability problems that have plagued Proton. Though recently quality has gone up a notch, there's still some way to go. The TUV certification and 5-year warranty does go some way towards addressing our scepticism...
Number 3: the Hyundai i10 is a great car for its size. I expected a car that size to be tincan-like and clunky to drive. Nothing could be further from the truth. Refinement was great; road and wind noise well suppressed, and damping is very good. Feels like a much bigger car. Of course handling suffers due to the height of the car, but nothing really bad. Just felt a bit wobbly at higher speeds. Interior room was also superb, considering its size. One trick that made its legroom feel bigger was to make occupants sit straighter and higher, which it effortlessly did with its high roof (the car is as tall as a Myvi!!!). I suppose for short commutes this is fine, but it would get very tiring to sit like you're on a straight backed bench after a while. Another drawback was the cost cutting extended to the lack of an rpm meter...
And the rest? The Getz was actually the most well rounded of the lot, with a decent engine, decent handling, decent comfort and decent interior. Decent everything in fact, but nothing that stands out as being particularly bad or good. Not a bad approach really, look at Toyota...
The Swift was clearly the most well built, though by a slim margin. Interior plastics looked fine but didn't feel good, being in some places nastier than the Savvy plastics, and felt curiously hollow. Engine noise was not good, and being one of the cars in this group with variable valve timing, power was just adequate. Comfort was also not a standout, though handling felt at the top of the group bar the Savvy which felt more nimble probably largely due to its size. Surprisingly, the Swift's wheelbase is significantly shoter than the Getz and more surprsingly shorter than the Savvy, though by a smidgen, it's still something you'd never be able to tell from just looking at both.
The Myvi was just plain disappointing. It handles like a strand of wet noodle, it isn't particularly comfortable, and built quality was just so-so. The engine was coarse and loud, was not powerful, and road noise was very memorable. Also, word is around that the fuel consumption is awful, in some cases with people claiming it costs about as much as their Wira 1.5, a car that is about 15 years older, is carburettored, has a 3 speed auto, and weighs about the same. The only reason why anyone should buy it is because of the perceived reliability of Peroduas. To make matters worse, it isn't cheap. I would say there is no reason, under any circumstance, that anyone should buy it, but the Myvi fanboys would come at me real quick. Just witness the mindless "Myvi rules..." posting in local forums...
What will we be getting? Well, we already have a big car, and wifey just need it to commute to and from work, and our priority is in not getting into any more debt. Take a guess...
Oil from fingers could cause premature bulb failure
WOW never thought of this. I took it lightly before.
From wiki:
"In any case, it is essential to never touch the glass. It is likewise important to ensure the glass does not get scratched or dirty. If any of this occurs, the spot with dirt, oil, a scratch, or oil from fingers will eventually get hotter than the rest of the bulb and will blow out."
If want to DIY. Wipe with alcohol and clean cloth. Or use glove.
Added on August 7, 2008, 4:00 am
QUOTE(death_nite @ Aug 6 2008, 08:10 AM)
just now my car, auto lamp blinking several time. then D mode turn to M mode.
Added on August 6, 2008, 10:10 amjust came back from sc. this one at tmn u beside petronas (skudai). i think this can be trust due to one of it tech got training from pesb for amt system. hehe. they show the cert. smmore their tech also use savvy.
well, they said not big problems. reset ecu would be fine. if still got probs send to sc at plentong. haih.
btw, they mention smthg abt pressure not enough. when on hill, if hold to long, this probs can occur.
but this remind me to smthg else, i need to change elf renaulmatic asap. probs is, i dont hv time to buy it.
Can hold on to D for too long at halt be the cause?
This post has been edited by hypermount: Aug 7 2008, 04:00 AM
hmmm can't wait to install my angel eyes rings...you can get at the trade forums..pretty easy to installs.. all 4 rings..
hey same like the ccfl rings with fans for pc modding..if anyone can find the 120mm size.. 80mm for the smaller and 120mm for the big rings.. i guess it's much cheaper this way..same stuffs only.
This post has been edited by hypermount: Aug 8 2008, 01:33 AM
hey what are you guy's fuel consumption when driving the savvy?
one kilometer = RM how much?
14 sen for highway drive and 18 sen for urban.
Added on August 11, 2008, 2:45 am
I sacrified my small light for the wires to go through from the headlamp assembly - defintely not the correct way I think - gotta cut some gap Need to reopen them again.. big lights dimmer cos small rings take all the power due to characteristic of AC wires..both small and big rings wire sticking together..must separate them. ..quite easy actually..
Added on August 11, 2008, 2:46 am
QUOTE(death_nite @ Aug 8 2008, 09:15 AM)
sorry from being failed to explain it.
not pretty sure what the error is. but he said hydraulic pressure for the clutch not high enough, thus thats y my D turn to M while driving (slowly actually, cos inside campus + a lot of bump). and he advice me not to hold on D for too long on hill as the same error can happened too.
i am not sure what he mean actually. not sure either when stopping or moving. if when stopping, i guess every1 know we need to put N. if on moving, i guess we need to use M mode instead.
thus this remind me one of the forumer post. where he mention proton atf not as good as renault one since it easily cause low pressure for the clutch pump. hey. thanks. wah! how much! come share how u diy. what package?
---
edy got my zaptor. i donno this is psychological effects or it really happened.
things i notice got diff:
1. aircond wont turn slower when changing gears. but smtime still occur, but lesser than before. 2. fast respond when start the engine. can easily start the engine. take less time. can feel it got more power when start the engine. 3. brighter headlamp? not really notice able. 4. i notice, i got better pickup. 5. amt become smoother? not really notice able.
so far thats all. but one thing got no diff at all. when aircond start to kick in, engine still can feel heavy.
ps: i am not sure i am satisfied or not. hahaha. but i dont feel regret at all.
See my sig for the package..
nice dealing with you Kev..
This post has been edited by hypermount: Aug 11 2008, 02:46 AM
I booked viva 1000 for my first car, but then I found this thread. It seems savvy will be more suitable for me because.
1. FC wise, savvy is about the same a viva 2. savvy is more stable on highway. 3. more powerful engine 4. back seat can fold down to put my bicycle in (viva cant) 5. abt the same OTR price (savvy lite == viva 1.0 sx)
what I am pondering right now is a. will the maintenance cost of savvy > viva? b. I read so many complains abt the AMT gear box problem, so am thinking to go for the manual variant, but really like the idea of AMT. Is the 2008 AMT has most these gear problem fixed?
thanks.
myvi driveshaft not just the cv head cost Rm1k while savvy and with the help of blm's EoS cost less than half of the amount...
The cosumables parts are cheap enough with so many localised parts -oil filters etc.
Go for the SAvvy MT if you're not adventurous- even the manual shifting is so good - much better than those nippon gearbox and both engine/gearbox should last you a life time..mine is over 70k km in less than 3 years - still going strong.
Added on August 12, 2008, 11:31 am
QUOTE(lj0000 @ Aug 11 2008, 02:53 AM)
bro u also so late niter one ar anyway, want to reserve 1 magnet from u
hi you still want? I wanna close the deal asap - lotsa people asking for it...reserve but never buy
This post has been edited by hypermount: Aug 12 2008, 11:31 AM
i know la this method wont be accurate. cos we cant count how many km/liter. but at least can give some average information. i am quite confuse how on earth u guys get 500km on full tank. izzit when the tank really empty or izzit when the light start blinking?
mine when the tank start blinking (2 bars) i got around 400km+. by average i can see 1 bar can go around 80-90km (except 1st bar. max i can get around 50km on average). so theoretically, another 1 bar can bring me around 80km which is total full tank (6 bar) can get around 480km?
I managed to get nearly 550km from melaka to penang - a mix of tolled routes and federal roads on RM80 of fuel - of course not so accurate without full tank to full tank calculation method and driving with 1 bar blinking...but heck I sped more than 130-140 km/h on the final stretch of highway towards Juru..it's good enough already.
Recently the occurance of 2nd gear jerk happened very frequently. It can be stopped by pull-over & restarting the engine. There're 2 ocurance of startup glitch which I have to turn the key longer to start the car. but not till the extend that I need to crank several time.
I've drove the car straight to service center & also Service dealer when the problem occured & they've told me.... that this kind of jerk although is "undesireable", it's "normal"......and unfortunately the have no solution yet for this problem????
So far I've claimed a brake pedal, brake switch & TDC sensor. The coil is ok according to them. Some senior technical staff even went to the Service Dealer & says all technical data shows no problem on my car.
Anything that I've missed?
And also I've claimed several units of Power Window Switch due to sporadic malfunction. When a new units installed the can last for several months before the swtich start to fail again.
Is the PW switch that fragile.....? I do suspect the vibration on the speaker caused the problem....
It's not the TB..
Definitely it's caused by dirty TDC sensor..if out of warranty no need to change like me...just clean it.
ah confirm the installation was not done properly...connection issue if it's like that. It should be free of jerking (2nd gear for that TDC sensor problem)...
crimping is not enough, should solder between wires for proper connection..I think you should ask the SC to relook into the matter.
that is heat shrink tubing, you'll see it alot when installing electronic devices...I found using hair dryer should be sufficient it it's hot enough to heat it then let it cool to shrink..but a heat gun is better.
hi all! didn't manage to test drive the savvy today and the promotion is over.
it was a busy day today, can't manage to squeeze out an hour for the test drive. i'll keep my wira at the moment first la, no commitment also just the car quite thirsty only 1ltr/10km (i know got more thirsty car but the fuel price is a little burden for me).
love to join the club and i'm pretty looking forward to savvy, maybe will ask the pre-registered one and see, at least already know the condition and can test drive before hand out the money.
hypermount, where you'll post your comparison article? i'd really interested in the i10 vs savvy.
Not a complete comparison, just how was the seat height and drive experience..
there' san articles somewhere I posted in this thread..
My jerking is not that bad. just it's a bit shaky shake when accelerating lelow 2000rpm. Something like out-of-tuned 130Y..... but stil not that serious...
Restart car then problem solved.
When I doubt SC's comment, they brought me another Savvy which supposedly belongs to The Branch Manager. I'm not convinced & they bring me the i-care car....They're all with this kinda shaky feel like my car but one thing is worse than mine is restart did not solve the problem for those car and the jerk is persistant.....
Well....I'll try to do a TB clean on next service. At this moment I just used a sealant to seal the "suspected" wirings. See if it happens again.
They said Change ECU is pointless as theer's no new revision nor new softwaer to solve the prob.
They also pointed out Valve seat in the engine itself might be a problem as Proton never clean the protective wax on the seat when manufacturing the car. This problem do not occure on newer batch of savvy.
They also said that only frequent user such as sales person or someone lked to travel with his car will noticed that as the problem is very sporadic.
Let's try to ask then clean the TB before other speculation....
btw, how much is Renautech to clean the TB??? Can they read any hidden troublecode? T shaped PDT2000 cannot read hidden code while nre PDT2000Plus used by my Service Daeler can somehow read hidden codes based on my previous experience.
I do not wish to modify the TDC sensor.....coz they're new design....
Also if TDC sensor fault wil have some sort of trouble code right? My previous sensor do have such error + Brake switch error. But this time w/o error....
Does it jerk only when it's below 2000 rpm on 2nd gear?...if it is then it's the TDC sensor bring dirty...try to clean it yourself with the guide I posted on first page and clean the connector and ECU also..
Added on September 3, 2008, 9:26 amwow what a weekend guys..savvy driven by DPM and e-savvy now?
got pics of the red savvy driven by the DPM?
Added on September 3, 2008, 2:56 pmgetting this...won the bid at dirt cheap price..
This post has been edited by hypermount: Sep 3 2008, 02:56 PM
Aug 4 2008, 02:09 PM
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for the package..
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