I always been planning to get that board! i'm dreaming to CF my 4870
Some people underestimate that board but the Tpower can performs as good as those high end mobo like
MSI Platinum, ASUS M.F II, DFI LanP LPDK P45, Asus Striker2 Formula, etc...
How much it cost u bro???

Yes, report back on how the TPower overclocks u'r E7200, maybe 4.2Ghz

In the class of P35, the abit doing pretty good in OCing, but it has a rival in competition:
DFI Blood Iron P35-T2RL
Price: RM340@ LYPlaza.
These two board has always been competing with one another..(equivalent to the rivalry of Subaru impreza WRX sti vs. Mitsubishi Evo)
But this was back years ago, its just up to what u prefer...
The abit is better looking, but the DFI may look simple, but it got tricks up its sleeves.
pic:
http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=dbll_5.JPG

As for your mobo, the msi p43-neo 3 should have no prob OCing the E7400 more than 3.6ghz.
Most E7400 can run 3.5ghz@ stock vcore/"automatic", 1.35v is in the region of 3.8ghz-ish. (hell some chip can run 4.0ghz on that vcore.)

The real power of CM Extreme 460 is about 435w, hope this is enough for OCing
U can calculate the Watts usage in your entire system here, just in case:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

What the temp of u'r E7400? Do you use after market CPU coolers? One thing i can thinks of right now due to insufficient info:
The cpu might reached a certain Autoshutdown when reached TJMax or BIOS auto shutdowns when cpu temp reached 90c plus(or what the bios specifies)...

333 x 10.5, are using 677mhz rams? Btw, is your 'FSB to Northbridge strap' set to 333 as well? need a little more info bro

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 4 2009, 12:04 AM

For my previous 334 x 10.5; I think it was around 1.26v, with v-droop it was 1.242v in CPU-Z.
Plus I was using Artic Cooling Freezer Xtreme that time, maybe the low temps contribute to my stability @ that vcore settings.

Just to remind u i used that setting bcoz thats the maximum ghz you can get if you use DDR2 667mhz ram to get that 1:1,
now i'm using hyperx 800mhz, my usual preset of OCing is: 3.4ghz, 3.6ghz, 3.8ghz, 4.0ghz, etc.....

These days I'm experimenting on how much FSB can my mobo handle, (ASUS P5QL-Pro) latest trial is:
FSB 420 : DRAM 841mhz (1:1), i have to increase the hyperX from 1.8v to 2.0v to be stable, but fails at times..probably because to changed my timing from 5-5-5-15 to 4-4-4-12...
Still in the experiment phase though..

There's two version of CM Extreme 460; one is the one u'r using currently and 2nd is the newer one : CM Extreme 460 Plus
the 'CM460 Plus' has revised railings for the +12v since the older version has encounter lots of problems in term of railings and low true power output..
as low as 430w-ish of true power if i remember..

Yes your +12v is pretty low, should be at least 11v minimum, 11.8v average.

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 4 2009, 01:34 AM

If its Exreme power plus, then the problem might be elsewhere.
(i'm not an electrician, but u'r +12v is STILL pretty low, probably i'm just wrong about the CM 460Plus,
maybe the CM460Plus hasnt improve much on its railings... hope any other CMextreme+ users can clarify me on this)

But of course still cant ruled out the possibility of PSU insufficient power output.
I think you should try very troubleshoot possible before deciding to buy new PSU's,
but if u got the $$$, a new PSU is somewhat recommendable and a good investment in the future u want to upgrade hardware bro

3.65ghz, whats u'r FSB now??? If its 400 and slightly above, then its good when running with DDR2 800. I think when u were OC'ing @3.5ghz, u downclocked u'r DDR2 800mhz DRAM to 678mhz-ish, which i presume might cause some instability. Maybe all these time the problem has to do with the Dram freq., not the Vcore because E7400 @3.5ghz does not really need to be push up to 1.35v...(maybe those unlucky chips might have to)

When u'r using DDR2 800, its recommended to OC u'r CPU to: (IMO )
3.4ghz (400 x 8.5)
3.6ghz (400 x 9)
3.8ghz, (400 x 9.5)
4.0ghz, (400 x 10)
etc..........
^^^This is a common baseline for overclocking CPU with DDR2 800. (without needing to OC the DRAM) Later u can fine tune...
And as a bonus you obtain the FSB to Dram ratio of 1:1

With the FSB maintain at 400,(or slightly above) u dont have to overclocked/downlocked u'r DRAM frequency.
When OC'ing DRAM, usually need to alter the DRAM voltage or choose a compatible settings for 'clock twister' for stability.
e.g. my DDR2 is at 820mhz(410mhz)@1.9v; or 840(421mhz)@2.0v to remain stable.
But right now i'm on stock 800(400mhz) @1.8/AUTO.

Yeah the amps of the railings u cannot do anything about it once you bought a PSU.
But i think u'r PSU is good enough when u are currently using 9600 GT.
(FYI, 400w of real power and 26Amps on the 12v rail (combined) is more than enough for this card)

HD4850, 4870, 9800GT, GTs250, etc.. has drop its price significantly these days, just FYI if u'r planning to get those GC,
u at least need PSU with 500w+ of real power; 600w+ real power for SLI and C.Fire

Anywayz, try playing around with those settings i recommend above and report back bro,
bcoz these are valuable data/info for all other E7xxx users to read.

Man that's unlucky It's the mobo...

ABIT IP35-E is RM350 brand new @LowYatPlaza, The DFI i reccomended earlier is RM340 @LYP. If u got the cash, there's another P35 mobo, buts its consider expensive if u'r in a budget:
MSI MS-7345 P35 PLATINUM (2 PCIE=Crossfire) @RM490 LYP.
pic:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=7419
Its doesnt always have to be P35 bro, u just need to find another P43/P45 mobo, e.g. like Gigabyte EP43-UD3L, Asus P5QE,
Jetway JXBLUE-P45(this one fetured in Goldfries's review on OCZ 1.2ghz in GameAxis magazine) Asus P5P43TD (DDR3), Biostar TP 43, etc...
(all the mobo above budget less than RM350)

or if u feel lucky u can go hunting in LYN garage sales for a bargained price

18Amps per single +12V railings is above enough or standard

I'm using FSP Epsilon 80Plus 600w, with 64Amps, combination of 4/quad +12v railings of 18Amps each.

^^^whats psu u using bro?

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 4 2009, 11:21 PM

Yes, the gigabyte has double railings of +12v, in which 360w/+12v = 30A combined.



This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 6 2009, 08:02 AM

First of all,
The main difference is the CFire setup, the P35 has a x16 - x4 arrangement and the P45 has a x8 - x8 for both of the PCI-E graphic slots.
the P45 uses the newer ICH10 southbridge, the P35 uses the older ICH9. Not too much difference. But of course the p45 is the more newer/updated chip.

45 chipset will more excellent in oc..rite??

Intel claims that p45 does slightly better in Oc'ing compare to p43.


Just for your info, a p43 and p45 'almost' the same thing, (probably is, because the are manufactured with the same crystals)
but the main difference is that p45 is CFire capable and the p43 can't.

But there are few mobo's out there that have p45 chipset but does not utilize CF.
Some say it's a 'marketing gimmick' when it comes to such mobo's such as for example;
Gigabyte EP45-UD3L, MSI 7514 P45 Neo3-FR, Asus P5Q Turbo, etc......
This is because these mobo's use p45 chipsets but doesnt offer CF, which means u pay more unnecessarily for a mobo with chipset the similar performance as p43. But is that true? (the rest is better to be discussed in another thread unfortunately)..

My opinion is as such:
- P43 fsb overclocking is supposedly going to be restricted to 400-425fsb, but p45 can go moderately over that.
- If u'r not planning to go CrossFire the P43 is adequate.
- If u still not planning to go Crossfire but want a slight edge in OC'ing, go for the p45.
(Me personally will go for the p45 CF enabled mobo BUT if u don't want the CF option, the p43 is good enough and save some $$$. )
- p45 is probably a more updated version to p35 if u have trouble with which one to buy
- non-CF p45 mobo's cost more than p43 and p35

Overall i think u should get the p43 mobo's if u plan to use DDR2 800 because u dont need to go over 400fsb to get the 1:1 ratio,
get a p45 mobo if u plan to use DDR2 1066 & DDR2 1200 to get FSB up to 533..

To conclude in a logical sense, get a p43 mobo's if u are in a budget because you still can get 4.0ghz+ from the CPU. (400fsb~425fsb X 10~10.5)
But if u have some extra $$$, a tad more OC'ng headroom and won't mind emending to the 'marketing gimmick', its your choice to get the non-CF p45 mobo's.
Get a p35 mobo's if u want 'the reasonable of the p43 mobo's' and 'the similar performance of a p45 mobo's, but suffer a little from the older southbridge.




(man the thread is seriously getting out of its real topic lately............E7xxx. I have the funny feeling i might have cause it ever since i enter this thread)

I see...its equilibrium. So the max for 1 railing is 18Amps on that psu. How do you know its max Amp? whats the calculation?

Here's my PSU info:


so for my quad +12V, if one railing occupies 18A, the rest of the 3 unoccupied railings will have a shared/unshared Ampage of???
(at the moment all me rails are occupied)
In fact where does it written on the PSU details above of how much Max Ampage my psu have. Is it 60Amps?(just guessing)

I knew it i was suppose to pay more attention to Physics in high school

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 5 2009, 03:40 AM

Thanks for the schooling, the equation 'Power(W) = Current(A) X Voltage(V)' is such a basic formula, but the last time i was in high school was years ago....


My former math teacher must be disappointed if he knows i forgot his teachings...

---

Added on September 5, 2009, 6:08 amOne more question, lets say a hardware occupies/acommendate 12v1 @ 18A, then how the 'balance capacity' works out on the rest of 12v2, 12v3, & 12v4? is it spread evenly?

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 5 2009, 06:09 AM

Thanks bro, with what i learned, now i can accurately calculate how much my whole system consumes in terms of wattage, which hence i can figure out if my PSU is adequate for my current system and for other hardware upgrade to come in the future.

Yes, i forgot the real world application of power usage is different theoretically, like u mentioned,
So, my cpu consumes average 45W (on my E7400 OC'ed at 1.3v@ 35A x 1.3 = 46.2W)
My GC 4870 idle @ 150W (needs 2 6pin connector(75w x 2), load about 290W
DDR2 Ram 1.8v = 63w.

Thats already 400W, excluding the calculation of CD drives, FDD, HDD, etc. Am I underpowered, or am i just exaggerating theoretically? because lot of other people i know have similar PC setup as mined but able to run their pc even with lower powered PSU than mine.

Rig:
E7400 3.8ghz@ 1.312v
HD 4870
Asus P5QL-Pro
DDR2 2G 800mhz HyperX
1 HDD
1 DVD-R

OK, i'll try to do the estimates again, correct me again if i'm wrong:
1 HDD rated @ +12v/+5v (0.5A, 0.6A), hence ((0.5A x 12)+(0.6A x 12)) = 9W
4 case fans, approx. 1.2w~1.4w each = approx. 5.2w
1 CPU fan 120mm = approx 1.8w
1 4870; 75w x 2 = 150w average
2 DDR2; 3W x 2 = 6w
1 OC'ed e7400 3.8ghz @1.3v = LOAD approx. 50w average. (reference from Everest readings)
1 Asus P5QL-Pro; SB,NB, etc. via 4pin atx + 24-pin EATXPWR = Just guessing about 50w max.

= 272w of approximation wattage usage

Therefore:
(155w - 50w) + (420w - 222w) = approx. 303w of headroom @575w;
303w x 100% / 600w = approx. 50.5% total reserved wattage.
Yes bro, how's this estimation measured up in the practical real world scenario?

And does the 80Plus efficiency by any chance can curb down the wattage usage? even a little?

Yes, my estimation seems to aim at the max. of what my whole system will/can consume at peak wattage...
Probably in the back of my mind all these times i have second thoughts if my PSU is capable enough of handling another 4870 to CrossFire.
(Yes, since my rig is 3 months new, its still 'under watchful scrutiny' if the PSU capacity is suitable and have the capability to handle another 4870.)

It seems that the real power consumptions are variables, i dont think i'll be getting any accurate readings at any fixed measure...
Thanks for correcting the misinformation i have; that a system doesnt always hover/stays too long in its peaks wattage.
Like u said, in the premise of 70% ~ 90% load.

Relatively, adding insult to injuries I think I was made confused or mislead by PSU manufacturer's 'marketing gimmicks' when they advertised their PSU often @ peak wattage, but seldom their true power. It makes a hassle to those who's aware to the importance of power requirements and wants to build a rig with a complied PSU. Its just not about peak powers, but prominently are 'combined Amps' and the max. wattage at +12v rails, (which most power consuming hardware occupies/resides) which then follows with wattages @ +5v, then etc..

Efficiency-wise that u mentioned, that's a fair amount of energy saved if looked at a 1 years perspective of energy consumption in a household.
That 80Plus rating is for sure no gimmick i suppose.

Much gratitude man to your intervention and schooling in Mathematics i have now completed with another Chapter (Power Supply Unit 101),
which now adds into my 'resume' on 'Rig Building, OC'ing & PC Mods'.




To Moderators: I'll be back to E7xxx OC'ing topics any time soon

I'm relief that the PSU can handle 2 of them GC's. I thought i bought the wrong PSU bcoz i always hear people rave about that u need minimum 750w PSU for SLI and CF. (Ok maybe if they mean like SLI'ed GTX285 or Tri SLI'ed GTX260 than thats understandable...)

How did u calculate the max amps of +12v rail? The only info i get is from the manual book and is on the reference of Over Current Protection, which stated that:
OUTPUT VOLTAGE
+12v1,2,3, & 4 = 30A each max. current limit
+3.3v = 60A max. current limit
+5v = 48A max. current limit
Even in the manual it doesnt state about max Amps on +12v rails, so i deduce that its couple of Amps below the when the OCP kicks in.

Alright bro, I'll migrate to the threads you showed me, the moderators wont be to pleased for strayed topics.
Anyways I read reviews that the power consumption of 4870CF are around 270w~300w, for example:

I think my PSU is sufficient to handle them to GC's. I turst your judgments bro.
I will venture out into International forums for more info on the FPS Epsilon 600..
Thanqs for all the abundance of help you have given bro





I'm back for E7xxx OC discussions . Will post my latest development of E7400 OC results soon...

Alright bro, I'll migrate to the threads you showed me, the moderators wont be to pleased for strayed topics.
Anyways I read reviews that the power consumption of 4870CF are around 270w~300w, for example:

I think my PSU is sufficient to handle them to GC's. I turst your judgments bro.
I will venture out into International forums for more info on the FPS Epsilon 600..
Thanqs for all the abundance of help you have given bro





I'm back for E7xxx OC discussions . Will post my new E7400 results soon...

---

Added on September 8, 2009, 8:15 am
Sorry for Double post guys, my Internet connection is sluggish these days...

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 8 2009, 08:15 AM

OC TRIAL #3

FSB 400 x 9.5 = 3.8ghz @ 1.296v (BIOS)
Run Time on Linx: 28m 34s

Main Components in Rig:
E7400 3.8Ghz @ 1.280v, with AC Freezer Xtreme
Asus P5QL-PRO
2G Kingston HyperX 800mhz
FSP Epsilon 80Plus 600W



Report:
I have decrease the Vcore to the point of minimum voltages that the E7400 can handle @ 3.8Ghz:
1.280v. in CPU-Z; 1.296v in BIOS, which is about just one increment away compared with my previous 'OC TRIAL #2' @ 1.3v BIOS

The Vcore hovers around 1.28v to 1.292v in CPU-Z during the 20 rounds of LinX test runs.
I'm really stocked with the maximum temperature readings by only reaching @72c this time,
probably due to the lower voltage than my previously OC TRIALs, and not to forgot, the good work of the AC Freezer Xtreme.
On average the temps are approximately around 60c~65c on the LinX test runs.

I will humbly accept this OC setup because this is my main rig and I intend to run it 6hours+ average, per day.
Therefore I will stick to this setup, for now.

-------

Talking about 4Ghz as benchmarking, I still could not ascertain any stability within those Ghz range. My hypothesis is that due to motherboard lacking the capability to OC 400 X 10. So in the next benchmarking test, I will try varieties of FSB X multiplier combinations to attain the 4Ghz mark, or at least the closest as possible.
I probably need a P45 chipset motherboard to OC seriously. But then again like I mentioned, I'm fine with 3.8ghz system for daily usage........



This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 9 2009, 08:57 AM