And yet u won get very rich. Perhaps only 30% of the studio here making money, some can only cari makan, and some barely survive.

bro, why do u have to come out with such statement la bro. i just started not long ago u know.

harlo...i graduated from TOA too.... luckily i still can survive in CG industry. Honestly TOA consider best in local ald. of caz, there is still got a lot of spaces to improve( if they want )

I saw some one said art cant make money. duhhhh..... art do make money , in fact what rubbish also do make money. It's juz depends how well u can read the demanding from your audience... Use ur creativity wisely and please remind yourself. Creativity can be anything, anytime, and anywhere.

Art industry at local still consider bright no worry everyone. You have to push hard to polish yourself then only can make a bright future after graduate. Of caz you still need to workhard after graduated.

i think my TOA life is pretty happy becaz i got very passionate classmates.

gambateh everyone !!!

why you talk like lecturer ar?

sengseng83
how much u earning bro?

do i talk like lecturer? lolz.... i just wish to let you all know the point aren't what career can only make rich, but what attitude you have.

how much I earn? this is quite private but i can tell you i can survive with only my salary and yet i still can give my parents money. saving? of caz...

i juz 2 years sumthing working experience. i think for current is important to get more working experience. Then i will only start to think how 2 build up my business? or brand....

Hello good sir !

I read everything you said and of course i've considered what you've said even before i started this thread. I've did a salary check on Graphic Designers, Interior Designers on jobstreet.com and it seems the average pay is 2-3k per month? That's pretty low. VERY LOW.

I love money, who doesn't? But it's not the ultimate thing i seek in life. Because well, i guess i'm not one who pursues materials or spend a million dollars on my family and houses and lands and properties etc. To me, i really have not much of an interest in that.

Well job satisfaction, well.. of course i want that. That's the reason why i'm enquiring about studying arts and all. Because it's true that 80% of people work for the sake of money and they do not enjoy it. So i don't want to be that 80%, i know it may sound naive. But this is my dream i'm talking about. It's my lifetime career, i'm not gonna spend my entire life running a company, doing business, perhaps cheating and backstabbing just to sit the highest position.

Being flexible is never an option if you wanna succeed in life right? Maybe i haven't experienced working till 3AM or so, but i'm currently in my school's Editorial Board and yes assignments to create layouts and stuff occur VERY frequently. I know i cannot compare to working till 3AM, but it's a starting point and it's good training .

I really thank you for your advise! It's not that i'm not ignoring it, or denying it's truth, but.. doing something i want, and going for the best college, and spending my whole life into a career, it really takes much thoughts and research, basically something i don't want to regret. I don't want to end up like 80% of people doing something they don't like. Or maybe someday when i retired, then i use my money to do Graphics and all, it's quite a waste to me.



Yes and i absolutely agree with having the right attitude. I think passion, attitude and talent are the 3 basic needs i guess . With all that comes perseverance and hardwork!

And thank you everyone for your honest and encouraging comments and replies!

This post has been edited by booblegum: May 27 2008, 12:07 PM

May be i shouldn't post it at the first place. I understand your situation, as i had gone through it myself. Ppl said the same thing to me 15 years ago, and i react just like u. But after so many years in this industry, i see some ppl in the same industry doing good, but majority of us are still suffering from the low pay, long working hour nightmare. and i dont see there is anyway to change this in the near future. Art can make money, but not in Malaysia, not even in Singapore, and Hong Kong and China. If u manage to work in Australia or NZ or even better, US or Europe, by all means go for it. But its not easy to get a job there especially in this line.

After 12 years of doing what i love initialy, i started to think, am i doing this for myself, or for the client. Should i be so selfish to let my family suffer with me? How many hours can i see my wife and kid a day, or perhaps how many hours a week. Everyday when i go to work, my wife ask me if i am coming back for dinner, i can not give her an answer. And she ask me what time roughly do i come back from work, i cant give her an answer. And she ask again if i am coming at all that day, i cant give her an answer. I am like a police, i dont know if i am able to go home that day every morning when i step out of my house. U may think i bullshit, i am telling the truth, i live like that everyday. even on weekend when i need to go to my wife home town i have to turn off my phone, so they cant find me. I use to stay in the office for 2 weeks with all my cloths, underware and pillow. After that 2 weeks my girl friend break off with me. And i am not the only one that experienced this. If anybody already in this industry who never experience this, its either u are working in a not so happening company, or your boss is too good.

Try ask ppl who are working in Silver Ant or MFX how is their working life, and u will be surprise. I know we are all doing what we like, but the client and your boss use that as an advantage, to make u work like a dog. U may be willing to take it for the sake of love for art, u may be thinking money is not important, u may think that 14 working hours is nothing. but how about your wife, how about your kid? How about your old and lonely parent? Are they suppose to suffer together with u, just because your love of art? If u are 21, fine no worries. 25? Still good. 30? Start thinking about what u want. 35? 40? 45?

Go to any animation studio or post production and see how many ppl there are over 35. In this line if u are over 35, u better be someone, other wise u are dead. At least 50% ppl switch line before 35, and that is if u are lucky. Dont ask me how many ppl over 35 that i had meet in this line. But i am sure everyone of them had a sad story. And i even know some is over 45, and their career is over, its gone. And they dont know what to do, because thats everything he knows. And he had 3 kids to take care of, and the eldest son is going to college. His salary may be 10K, so it would be 120K a year. How much do the college charge u? 20K for a year. Thats 2 months of his salary. How about other son, they are going to Uni soon. How abot house loan? Car loan? May be your son need a transport, a bike? a car? Well, do the calculation.

For those of them keep saying this line is good, this line is fun, this line can make money. U are either too naive, too un-experience, or u are working for the college. Yes, art can make money. But not everybody. So if u have a rich daddy to give u the money to start a studio, u are lucky. If not, u are just a slave to your boss, to your client, and to art. Think about it, not for now, but for the rest of your life. Think what u want to do when u are 40. And come back here and tell me.

I see, i see.. must be hard for you. Im sorry really.

I think that what you said is a very logical way of putting things. Basically that's how most people think. That the things you like to do, you thought would be enjoyable turned into your only source of survival and income, and things become so different and it becomes a burden for yourself and the people around you too. Hmmm.

You see, the only thing i'm afraid of venturing into this industry, is having a family. I'm quite a simple man myself. But like you said, your wife, your kids - they all mean a lot as well. It becomes a burden, sort of.

I don't think i will start my career (as a designer) in Malaysia. Probably NZ or Australia. I know that Malaysia hasn't come to a stage where people start accepting all sorts of arts and designs and are willing to spend a sum on it. Plus the fact that, arts is not a necessity. Unlike food, business, which will continue to run no matter how the world changes.

I know that this career is totally risky, and you might lose out in terms of competition and even more, wealth. But sir, what if i think i'm one of those people that can exceed the others and succeed in the arts industry? I know it sounds very boastful and overly confident, but what if, arts is what i do best in life? Unlike business, and marketing, i know i have no talent in that.

Then where does my talent and skills go to? Should i abide these gifts?

Yes, i am going to arts institutes, firms whatever to check out there and ask the people there about their jobs etc.

I think i wouldn't waste so much time replying what you said, it would be nice if you could private message me your MSN Messenger contact, so i can get in touch with you and have you share me a bit of experience and thoughts.

Thank you .

Mr Tong1774 : Whatever you have said, I can see it is from your experience and the people you've met in your life. But you can't stop the fact that some people's interests are in this line. If everyone took your advice, in the end there would be no artist, no 3D movies, no good advertisements and etc. New ideas these days, I believe they come from the younger individuals/generation, as for the more experienced ones, they prolly ran out of brain juice.

I do not deny they fact that most artists will be throwing their lives away for the sake of art, but if they don't do it, who will?


Booblegum : Art, like everything else, is a necessity today, like food and business. Imagine a food brand like magee mee selling their products, there is always an artist behind the scene to design its packaging and logo. Can you imagine buying your magee mee which comes in a grey plain plastic?

Even business, without an artist in the background, how are they gonna advertise themselves with horrible looking brochures, or their websites? Where are they gonna get their logo from?

Even for movies, if there is no artist in the background, how are they gonna make their special effects? How are they gonna present posters?

So, imo, I won't deny the fact that we are living at a time where art is an equal importance to everything else in life. It's practically everywhere, even when stepping foot into a shopping complex, just imagine everything around you were just boring / bland / so very dead.

Just my 2 cents.

Ok basically in this line, or perhaps all other area. There are people who do it, and people who sell it. And believe it or not, 90% of the time, the people who sell it took most of the credit, or put it in the simple form- the people who sell it get more money than the people who do it. So... ask yourself, are you a salesman? Are you good in presenting your work to your client? Or i can say most of the time you need to bullshit. Sad but true, even though i don't like to believe it.

If u are those ppl that can do great work, but u can't talk or dont like to talk, then u will be forever a "backroom boy". The client may like your work, but most of the time the client don't even know u. What they know is XXX company doing a great job, and not YYY from XXX company is doing a great job. So in this case, if u are leaving the company due to low salary, your boss may or may not ask u to stay. And even if he do, dont expect mirical. why, because they know u are good, but the amount that he need to pay u, he may be able to hire 2 to 3 fresh-grat, and he believe he can use quantity to overcome experience. there are exception, but rare.

So if u are planning to further study in oversea, dont come back. The amount u earn is not worth spending that kind of money to study oversea. And if u work in oversea after uni, u wont feel like coming back and work here. Mostly because of the different working style, the whole big enviroment, and also the amount of money u get. So it comes down to the same question, what do u want to do? U want to settle down in oversea? How about your parents? Girlfriend? If u plan to come back, what do u want to do? Save some money in oversea and come back do business? Got a few friends did this and end up lost all their money. So here is the fact:

1) Do it only when u dont give a shit about money, family and u dont want a life.
2) Do it if u dont have to worry about money. I knew a friend who's father give him a million to start a studi after grat. god knows if he is making any money.
3) Do it if your father own a business that may need your skill, but young ppl now days dont like family business.
3) Do it only when u know that u won have to work in asia. i meant the whole asia. Including Japan & Korea.

I know it sound depress, but if u really wanna venture into this line, u need to be prepare. and i still don't encourage ppl to join this line. Unless u are in the list of what i just said. Good luck. will PM u my MSN, but i dont online everyday.

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Added on May 27, 2008, 4:52 pmIf he really like art & willing to give up everything for it, then what i said wont influnce his dicision. And if he listen to what i said and give up, then its better to give up now then later, which for sure he is going to face in his career. What i am telling u guys is the truth, that your lecturer may not tell u, or may not know, so that u know what u are going to face. I had meet so many fresh-grat that end up dissapointed with what they are doing, which aren't what's in their mind at the first place.

U like doing illustartion? How many illustartor are suffering now? Try go ask Stanley or other pioneer in illustartion, if u happen to know them. Stanley studio main business are not illustration any more, but doing 3D walkthrough for developer. And u can go ask him why, he will be happy to tell u. And how many 3D fresh-grat are happy to do 3D walkthrough? But thats where the main source of income. u dont wanna do it, there are 100s more studio willing to do, with even lower price. So what i am doing is not ignoring the fact that some of u like art and has the passion for it, thats great. But i am trying to tell them, when u are in the business, u may lost what u once passionate for. afetr 14 hours of work, i dont think u want to do, or have time to do what u like, or so called "Own Project".

So if u really have passion for art, u dont have to make it your career. u can work as a salesman, get home early, and do some painting or build some 3d model and have fun with it. It will make your passion stays beacause u do it because u like to do it, not somebody want u to do, and do it the way they like.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 27 2008, 04:52 PM

I completely agree with everything you said. Not only you need to have good skills in art, but also in communication to promote yourself. And yes, it also depends on what you wanna do with your life.

But since this is a topic regarding TOA, the moment you step foot in here, it's already like the beginning of whatever Tong said before. Classes will prolly be early in the morning, 9am or so, if you come late you'll face the consequences, and because of the assignments load, you'll literally lock youself in your room and will prolly be working till really really late or having no sleep at all, and still have to attend classes the next day.

As for me now, all I do is just my assignments. My daily life is basically go to college early in the morning, finish classes in the afternoon/evening, go back home bath and take power nap, wake up do assignments until god knows when[makan time included also la =.=]. Then repeat the same thing again. Feel like a robot. And not all the assignments are stuff I like to do, some of them I hate doing.

So yeah, this is basically the life of a TOA student.





I don't believe that artists are the only ones suffering in this world. Even bussinessmen can go bankrupt or many who are still in poverty. I believe every job has their pros and cons, not particularly when you become a doctor you'll bcome rich, with the growing amount of competition today, surviving WILL be difficult regardless of ones profession or job.

My dad's a businessman who owns a resort, yet he doesn't want me to enter his career line because it's difficult. And the fact that my dad has a resort doesn't immediately make my family rich, my dad is actually struggling to support me and my sister. So yeah, I hope you get my point.

This post has been edited by Xiven: May 27 2008, 05:05 PM

So u have to do what u dont like even in the college, imagine all this thing is going to be double or triple when u start working. including the amount of work, the amount of frustration, the number of sleepless night etc... So if u can't take college life, it will be worst when u start working in this line. The only different is in college, if u dont do your work u will failed the subject. But in working life, u will get fired, or worst- being black-listed by all studio, and it happens.

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Added on May 27, 2008, 5:26 pmI can feel u, but what i am saying is majority. I know in every line there are good and bad. Just that in our line, the things u may get, doesnt worth all the efford. Like a sales man, if he is good, he manage to sell lots of goods, and he will be paid accordingly (except being con by boss) and get rich. But for a designer or artist, u may be good, but how to justify that? Would your boss pay u more if your work got awarded in some film fest? U see... i know they are risk and headache in every line, but at least in other line, u dont have to work like that long hour.

U are a contruction worker? U get pay for OT, and i dont believe there is any constuction worker that have to work more than 24 hours none stop (My record is none sleep, none shower for 5 days, and barely eat). U work in a big corporation, u work 9 to 5, sunday confirm no need to work, lots of benefits. U work as insurance/property agent? Flexible working hour, no need to go office everyday, can go cinema 3 in the afternoon, and the more u do, the more u earn.

But what do we got? I work 8 hours and 24 also get the same pay. My company get a 20K project or 200K project i still get the same amount. I work for 12 years in this line, only got yearly bonus once. So if u are those who is looking for bonus, dont work in this line. My department 10 ppl i get the same amount. when 5 of them left and i have to cover their work, i still get the same pay.

Well... if after all this u still din get what i say, then i guest i will give up. But what i can say id good luck. 70% hardwork, 30% luck. Thats what i can say.

Oh btw: U may misunderstand my statement. I am not saying art is shit, art is useless. what i am saying is, in Malaysia, people do not appretiate it, or they do not willing to pay for something that they appretiate, and those people are the one who pay your salary. So if u are working in oversea, mainly the "Mat Salleh" country, this problem may not be an issue. But now in those country, they are facing other issue. Due to the increasing production cost, most of their production will be assign to asia country, mainly china. and because of this, the amount of artist they need had been greatly decrease. And even if they are hiring, they will consider their own citizen first, then mat salleh from other country, then only asian. This is their goverment policy to protect their own industry. Good for them, bad for us. And when they assign their project to asia, those studios that wanted to take those job will start to counter each other in terms of pricing. And the end result is lower production cost, and lower average salary.

So if u want to work in oversea, the easist is to stay there after uni, since most of the country allow u to stay for another year or so. And if u manage to work there, work hard (And believe me, its not that hard compare to mat salleh), then your boss may help u to extend your permit. And if u stay there for 5 years (Depemds on country), u will get a PR, and then u can work in what ever company in that country without permit problem. i got a friend working in Microsoft as a department manager, and he can never come back and work here due to varies reason. So please take my words, i normally dont type so much.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 27 2008, 05:50 PM

Hahaha i can see that you write quite a lot. But believe me, i am taking every piece of word you typed down!

I wish not to extend another long post as it might affect other readers from reading such long posts! But yes we'll talk further in MSN Messenger .

It's a wonderful opportunity to receive such valuable words from experienced people on this line. And thank you so much for taking your time!

Xiven, i've heard people saying about TOA and how the students are. I think i'm quite prepared to step into that sort of life haha! Well, it's better than paying a sum of money for a college that doesn't provide you any work/assignments right?

Thanks ! I'd like to hear more from everyone!

May i know where u come from? i meant which state.

I see, I believe I've learnt something from this thread too. =)

wow, so many replies make me have to spend some times to read.

i think there is nothing wrong or right. Its still back to yourself what you want in the end. I a bit greedy because I always fight for balancing my dreams and money. I don't need big money but no need to make myself look like so suffering in survive. I need to chase my dream too. May b im still young compare with Mr tong but i always believe 1 thing. You trust yourself and fight for yourself.

There is so tough in CG line i know esspecially in TVC lines. We need to keep searching something to motivate ourselves to continue our career. Positive is the key and there is nothing can stop you to achieve something IF YOU WANT .

We face the reality mean time we fight for our dream. Thats my life concept.

Ya, i am old. Times fly...

arrhhh i not mean that, i just want to say I'm not so experience compare with you....sorry make u misunderstanding

LOL... its ok. I am old and i admit that. nothing wrong with that.