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Renovations 3-phase wiring

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weikee
post Mar 13 2012, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(tomjason @ Mar 13 2012, 02:59 PM)
having 3 phase is like car and MPV..if you have more children sure you like to upgrade to MPV to cater the children...

more over upgrade to 3 phase is one off investment...and the cost is not much..for my case for processing is RM1500, deposit RM500. for me..it is 'rugi' if you are having major renovation but do not want to upgrade to 3 phase..for your future demand same as MPV..smile.gif
yes there many cases burn due to wiring such as overload etc..mostly 'rumah papan'....
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I have only single phase, but i have close to 50 MCB. I don't see a problem future upgrade if required.
weikee
post Mar 13 2012, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(tomjason @ Mar 13 2012, 04:17 PM)
while doing the load balancing for my house red,yellow, blue with my wiring man....i have tested on all the load aircond, lamp etc, kecuali water heater...the total current is about 40 Amps..for me its justify for my house to have 3 phase.
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40 amps justify smile.gif Like that I run about 50+- when switch on all a/c and light. Need to upgrade already.

This post has been edited by weikee: Mar 13 2012, 04:30 PM
weikee
post Mar 13 2012, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Mar 13 2012, 04:36 PM)
Why you guys like to give money to TNB?  rclxub.gif
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Got too much money, no where to keep smile.gif
weikee
post Mar 14 2012, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(tomjason @ Mar 14 2012, 09:55 AM)
this my design..so far seem save my electricity bill...waiting my next bill.....got 2 DB 3 phase.....more stable......less trip when lightning..
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Can you explain why more DB less trip?

Save electric, have you try trip all the mcb or the 3 main circuit breaker, and see if your meter still run. Try it.
weikee
post Mar 14 2012, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(tomjason @ Mar 14 2012, 10:07 AM)
normally before this...my area is lightning prone..usually when lightning normally will trip..but now no more trip...before this i put lightning arrestor at DB..the arrestor also kena kilat..now no more arrestor.
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From my humble knowledge. lighting strike not related to the old or new live cables or neutral. Not even related to 3-phases or single phase. Very much on the soil, and earthing. Your rewire may have fix the earthing. It could also be your previous Circuit breaker is due for change.


weikee
post Mar 14 2012, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(tomjason @ Mar 14 2012, 10:21 AM)
my area is lightning prone area...i observed my old DB was not faulty.....the severity of lightning in my area is few month ago until the outside ceilling of my jiran pecah...
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But it not related to DB, be it you running on Single or 3 phases. More of environment and other factor like soil content of mineral, height of the land area (above sea level) etc...
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 09:59 AM

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A reason to change 3P biggrin.gif
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(ttleng @ Mar 20 2012, 10:47 AM)
For choosing between single phase or 3 phase depend on your HP use on your air cond + fridge + Water Heater.
If you use more then 3 air-cond with 1 hp then i think can go to around 5 unit.

If your house power usage is more then single phase supply then it will drain more power which will damage your home electric component in long usage.This happen due to unbalance/unstable power require for others electical component during overload power. Your DB will trip when the power overload according fuse that you use.

Thats why if you single phase bill is over RM200 when change into 3 phase will be cheaper because you component has enough power supply and wont drain power.
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Do you have proof of "your home electric component in long usage"? & "Thats why if you single phase bill is over RM200 when change into 3 phase will be cheaper because you component has enough power supply and wont drain power."

Fused will be the first to blow / trip if it overuse. If you get under voltage supply from TNB, your fuse will blow even faster, because the current draw will be higher.

RM 200 usage is about 600 unit (KWatt usage per month), that equal to about 20units a day. If using only 8 hours peak, 20/8 = 2.5 unit average high per hour, that only take up to about 10 amps. Unless you use 1 hour 20 KWatt, than this you need to use 3 phase because you are drawing 84 Amps (highest single phase is 63 Amps)

FYI, my parent house, sometime we pay > 250 per month. Is still single phase.

This post has been edited by weikee: Mar 20 2012, 11:02 AM
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(ttleng @ Mar 20 2012, 11:26 AM)
Theorytical your calculation may seem support single phase.
In practical, do all your electric use and on at same time to cause power overload ?
If you has heavy power usage but not all use at same time, then single phase is enough for it.
My house got 3 fridges, 4 unit 1hp air cond and 1 unit 2.5hp air cond. On daylight we just on the fridge and at night
only 2~3 air cond will use. Sometime will cause electric trip. For average monthly bill is RM300+
Almost every 1 years+ need ask technician to come my house to check on compressor of air cond and fridge because it not function.
After that change into 3 phase, the electric bill gone down about 20%.
My fridge and air cond now no need always call technician to check within 2 years.
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TNB change my old single phase meter to new single phase meter, power usage seem lower too. It could be the meter too..


Added on March 20, 2012, 11:37 am
QUOTE(ozak @ Mar 20 2012, 11:21 AM)
I think alot of people still don't understand how to judge and need the 3phase.

Many are just kiasu and assume they are going to use alot of power. When bill come, sakit gigi.
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Ah well, this is forum to discussion or exchange idea. We only give our idea, thought, and experience. At the end is still house owner decision.

I just find it irritating when people give information without data and fact, this can be very dangerous in some situation.

This post has been edited by weikee: Mar 20 2012, 11:37 AM
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 12:14 PM

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No one mention about the incoming cable from TNB, TNB usually have 4 cables run from one row of houses (3 Phase), and this supply > 63amps per phase. For longer row of houses you see one two supply end to end. If you have large and thick cable tap to one single phase you can actually run higher current too.
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(tiensong @ Mar 20 2012, 02:06 PM)
weikee, after u change to new tnb meter, u feel the power usage become lower? But i feel meter turn faster than old meter wor.......my wife got observed everyday....she said power usage higher.....
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Mine is slightly lower. It could be your old meter running lower after old age, mine go faster after old age.
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 02:53 PM

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My main fuse was rated 43Amp, it was given free to my by my electrician. The 60 Amps was taken by the ex-owner so no one can steal the electric during the SnP transaction.

I use for long, it never burned even all my 6 a/c switch on. Only later when I want to test full load, I swap back to a 60Amps.


Added on March 20, 2012, 2:53 pmSo 60Amps really go long way.



This post has been edited by weikee: Mar 20 2012, 02:53 PM
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(Eng_Tat @ Mar 20 2012, 03:53 PM)
i know 3 phase wiring is 3 16mm live wire + 25mm N wire into one db 3phase elcb. can we actually do this instead using 3+1 we do 1+1 16mm L+ 16mm n wire into 3 diffrrent db from the meter (each phase get each db (house got 3 db)) means we pull 6 wires instead of normal 4. ?
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May way todo, some go to one main DB, and distribute out to another db, all depend on load how you want to do. And usually ground floor have all the 3 phases. Some design all terminate in one DB box (ground floor), and design have independent DB box per floor. If you have 3 stories, 3DB box. Some go direct to the meter. Each have its good and bad.

Usually first floor have a DB box with busbar for difference phase. If your load is not high on other floor, each floor will have only one phase. But if load is high on other floor, they will pull 3 phases to the floor, and distribute via busbar.

For my house, is single phase, but I have 2 independent DB box with independent ELCB. When ground floor trip, my first floor still ok, Vice-versa. (Technically, I can go 63 Amps x 2 smile.gif but my limit on the main fuse. )

This post has been edited by weikee: Mar 20 2012, 04:15 PM
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(pky @ Mar 20 2012, 07:23 PM)
Neutral cable are usually same size as phase, some, which is not advisable, will put one size smaller to reduce cost, never see anyone put one size bigger for neutral.
Yes you can have single phase to each DB, just try to balance the load as much as possible. you will have to pull 3 cables for each DB instead of 5 cable for each DB.
Fuse is there to protect the cable from overvoltage. Make sure your cable able to take the load your fuse are rated at.
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Fuse is for protecting over current. Over voltage will happen all the time, even under voltage. Some area swing around 240 +-5v

This post has been edited by weikee: Mar 20 2012, 08:42 PM
weikee
post Mar 20 2012, 11:29 PM

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QUOTE(Eng_Tat @ Mar 20 2012, 11:18 PM)
sorry i dont really know how to draw cry.gif

Current set up single phase
Meter --- L 16mm+ N 16mm--- DB1 ---loop to ---DB2

Normally 3 Phases if I am not mistaken
Meter --- L 3x 16mm+ N 25mm (not sure is the correct size for N, read some where else)---DB1 ---loop to DB2

Can I just add 4 new 16mm wires (Examples)
Meter --- Phase 1 --- L 16mm+ N16mm to DB1 ---loop to DB2 (dont need to hack or disturb current wiring) (1x1.5hp ac + 1wh+ all lightings)
Meter --- Phase 2 --- L 16mm+ N16mm to DB3 (3x1.5hp ac + 1 Wh + Kitchen appliances + 10 13A Socket)
Meter --- Phase 3 --- L 16mm+ N16mm to DB4 (3x1.5hp ac + 2 Wh + 10 13A Socket)
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Big house you have there. You did not mention where the DB box be? all same floor? If all same floor, you better of using a bigger DB box, as all fused and ELCB in once area.

Looking at your summary, your DB 4 have risk of overload too. Say if you switch all the equipment same time ( 3x 1.5 HP = 3600 Watt +-, 2x WH = 6000Watt, if someone use Iron, and put in some high current equipment e.g. Vacuum cleaner say 3000watt) You already use 12,600 Watt about 52 Amps. Few more socket you go above 63 Amps.
weikee
post Mar 21 2012, 09:51 PM

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You plan to use instant or storage WH? If storage maybe you can consider solar since you have 4 unit. You save the money from 3 phase and use it on Solar. Maybe top up 1 to 2k
weikee
post Mar 22 2012, 10:35 AM

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Wow, 15 fused with 3 phases. I feel is over kill.
weikee
post Mar 22 2012, 11:24 AM

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This is usually how a 3 phase wiring look like

http://www.electrolesk.com/Work/Wiring%20o...ion%20Board.htm

But of course separate DB also been practice.
weikee
post Mar 22 2012, 04:08 PM

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I don't know, not in this line. All i know ABB, hager is good.

Anyway, even now, hager and ABB have clone version. Hard to tell.
weikee
post Mar 22 2012, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(Eng_Tat @ Mar 22 2012, 04:18 PM)
just starting to survey for products... hager 20A mcb is rm7.80 each. is the correct price? while eps/maxguard or amber is just rm4. hager can be used in sg but eps brand is not approve in sg.
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Did he put the decimal point wrong? 7.80 for hager is dirt cheap.

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