Hehe - similar thoughts here since 2010/2011.
In fact, i put my $ where my thoughts are - and the results are nice
a. extra $ into REITs (local + foreign ) had the biggest returns for my 2011 & early 2012 tracking

b. consistently carrying on my programmatic investments for local funds & value sniping at local stocks (iCap at 25%+ discount over NAPS +PBank at 2011 low) though i'm holding back a bit of % (about 5% to 8%) for local funds/stocks investment.

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Added on July 31, 2012, 8:25 amI think most seasoned investors (myself included), do NOT lock-in an equity fund's profit by SWITCHING to another equity fund.
We usually (there are exceptions as always) SWITCH to bond funds as they are a different "animal" or asset class from Equity Funds.

IMHO, SWITCHING from Equity Fund A --> Equity Fund B, should only be for sub-asset class re-balancing (eg. generic to REITs focused)
OR
opportunity value buying (eg. PIX to PRSEC now since KLCI Index all time high VS PRSEC near all time low).

Just a thought

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 31 2012, 08:26 AM

Not ALL REITs are good investment
IGB REIT? U mean MidValley + Gardens? Yeah - i'm waiting & prodding my broker for private placement on that too hehe.

Oops - sorry Mod(s). Slightly serong abit into REITs /stocks

On a "Funds" side thinggy - anyone knows of ANY EPF ok-ed equity funds that just does REITs?
I'm currently "forced" to do "self-directed stock buys" with my EPF A/C1 coz i want more exposure to REITs (nope, not "dividend stocks" nor "property stocks" equity funds, specifically REITs stock)

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 1 2012, 08:13 AM

Hehe - true but (there's always one mar) i'm not cash-rich mar, thus, trying to find more options with EPF.
About 45% of my investment assets are EPF-based, thus, if i can unlock that for REIT funds, it'll be much more manageable than just having only 2 options with EPF-based investments, which are currently domestic focused bonds & generic equities (ie. dunno whether REITs or normal non-REITs KLSE stocks).

The self-directed thinggy cost me 3% too, thus, i was thinking IF ada REIT funds via EPF, let the fund manager manage lar while i manage how much i buy in or switch out based on their NAV

Cash - i'm pushing into erm.. non-domestic assets as a hedge against good old RM devaluating, about 80%+/- of my investable assets are RM based, thus the want to move some % into other countries. Doing the norm bond funds, REITs, normal stocks & equity funds with it but all on non-domestic assets.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 1 2012, 10:23 AM

Yup, i know (am doing it already with Amara Investments) and it still cost me 3% like any other equity fund + transaction costs (buy/sell) +annual mgt fees
See - i'm literally managing it yet.. heheh, thus, if there are REIT focused funds that i can throw my EPF $ at, at least i only manage the value + dollar averaging

Yeah yeah, i'm a calculative little bugger that way

PFEPRF cash only - and it's one heckuva ride since 2009 with it. Shocking returns heheh (note - i'm invested in this and will still be, based on programmatic quarterly TwinVest & trend opportunities).

Side note:
I usually use this + a few other programmatic invested funds as samples to WHACK bullsh*tting overseas land-banking hotties (good lord, they employ really hot women to entice us into stupidity) when they say "mutual funds cannot make $ wan" and give their own examples of investment returns.

BTW, some of those same flers doing land banking earlier are now doing "agar wood banking".
Sorry lar - i fear i cannot tahan their womanly guile, thus turned them down on their offer of food and show/tell (i know my kryptonite well)

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 1 2012, 03:51 PM

Yup read up a bit about REITs in USA, AU and JP.
Even SGX's REITs suffered similarly - Saizen REIT, a Japanes residential REIT listed in SGX and still at lelong prices (market price is 50% discounted from NAPS).
ASX's (Oz / AU) REITs restocked and lowered their gearing greatly already, and averages about 33%+/- these days.

USA's REITs however includes a whole host of different animals leh (compared to MY's & SGX's, heck even ASX's). They've mortgage REITs and what not REITs - ie. value not based on properties and properties management, but debt and other instruments. Thus, when the SHTF in 2008 (packaged debts into CDOs and stuff), some of these REITs in USA got hit pretty bad.

Well, personally i look at multi-years (if possible) ROE & ROTA + gearing & DY%.
I usually buy ones with track record and acceptable current DY%.
Once awhile, i'll buy into something like Saizen, due to wanting exposure in that sub-sector or perceived pariah/lelong value. I dont focus much ammo$ on these, just like 1/5 or 1/6 of my current available ammo$ for REITs.

-----------
Thus, my personal opinion that the QEs and money printing chasing up real assets + (anyhow_ balanced asset allocation approach,
1/3 of my investable assets are going into REITs and properties.

Since i'm a lazy baka, 1 or 2 properties cukup lor, the rest all REITs and i can have weird stuff like plantations, malls and hospitals which in my lifetime, i'll never be able to buy outright hehheh.
Been buying SGX REITs (AIMSAMPI, SABANA, FIRST, LIPPO MALL & a bit of SAIZEN) for the past several months with cash.
Accumulating for ASX REITs currently and while accumulating, R&D-ing on ASX REITs/

EPF A/C1 just bought TWRREIT and BSDREIT last month.

ooh crap.. this is a Funds Investment Corner topic Sorry ar Mods..

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Added on August 1, 2012, 4:55 pmI think we better move this ding dong to http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1993103/+2000#entry53490161, a REITs thread, before Mods comes after us with a stick

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 1 2012, 04:58 PM

Heheh - BUY & HOLD (stupidly) IS DEAD.
LONG LIVE BUY, TRACK & MANAGE!

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 1 2012, 06:19 PM

er.. MGM, i copy & reply in REITs thread ar.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1993103/+2000#entry53500137

i worry Mods & fellow forumers cheesed off if i continue on specifically and in details about REITs in a Fund Mgt thread - please bear with me

Unless one does a Joint-Account with another who has reach 18 and above.

What are your priorities first?
$ into your studies > small investment WHICH MAY FALL when U need the $?
OR
$ which is not needed for 5 or more years into small investment > $ for your studies?

Don't be a gun slinger, be a sniper. Think/Learn, plan then only pull the trigger.
Just a thought

heheh - see, already said dont go overboard with bonds (in terms of % in asset allocation) just coz of fear of MY election, EU kabloey, CH hard/soft/whatever landing.

hm.. this post will most probably come back to haunt me when equities kabloey

I'll see your Bond funds and raise U the lot of REITs and REIT funds (looking at the way and amount of $ is being created electronically - these HAVE to end up somewhere right)

seefood must EAT food lar. Like those char siu pohs from Ling Dan & Chong Wei - cannot respect oneself if don't eat

eh - just a word of caution (methinks - which may be obvious to U & i but maybe useful for newbies) ar.
If / when REITs' DY% becomes near FD-ish, better start running the other way from REITs / REIT funds as the market price is "not too smart" liao.

When the gap closes, most folks will go.. duh - why am i taking more risks than FD to get slightly more returns than FD?

And thus, the cycle flows again to MM (remember one stretch of time, MM was getting more returns than Bond Funds?) and other vehicles.. ohm.. ohm..

er.. for the MY REITs' average DY% 5 to 6% (b4 tax) as posted by AronTeh, i don't think it is tied to any of the momentum and what not U are thinking about.
Just that market chased up the market price, thus at current market price for MY REITs, the expected DY% is lower/low.

Your thoughts posted, i think, are mainly affected by physical property buyers & builders, not directly related to REITs' market pricing.
Just thinking probabilities ar - not 100% gospel truths.

Hehe - don't overload on bullets though.
What's the % of KLCI collapsing and collapse to how much?

From some crystal ball gazing by my brokers and their network of analysts:
Current Gov win: KLCI 1700-1744
Current Gov toppled or lose: 1300-1400 (which is no biggie, like a 2011 Sep 26th EU hiccup at low of 1310... woo scary.. )

If the above holds water and i assume "toppled/lose" is 49% or less of votes, i think it's a near impossibility.
Don't get 2/3 or 66.66% majority is probable.
49% or less of votes is... improbable IMHO as the majority of Malaysia ain't as "information connected" as Klang Valley, Penang & Perak.
Most average folks will think what they've been fed via TVs and prints. Heck, they've even made several songs & dances these days <i feel so.. like in China propaganda machination>

Just my POV ar - heheh.
Anyhow, i think i just want "2 packs of wolves to balance each other" and leave the poor sheeples like me alone to focus on life and the "pursuit of happyness"
Mind U, i'm no crystal ball gazer, just sharing what i've read. I'm more of a navel gazer and nose digger

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 13 2012, 10:49 PM

Heheh - gomenosai / sorry / ampun.
I too have put aside some % leh but now mainly coz the donkey KLCI is waaaay hot (but how hot is TOO hot?).

I'm just trying to share another perspective and er.. from my friends who are jumping up & down now as they've been going "nah.. cannot be real.. sure kablooey" since 2009.. 2010.. 2011 and now all time high.
Like i shared earlier - i think sooner or later, sure kabloey wan but the Q is sooner or later? i've no crystal balls too leh thus, balance a bit lor (Asset Allocation), maybe not like 80% to 100% fixed income vehicles. Then again, these investors may be laughing all the way to the bank if it happens sooner AND deeper than that miserable 1300 .

Notice all i'm sharing is a view of IF IT HAPPENS... HOW DEEP? if it's not deep a fall enough, "no feel" so to speak leh. Well, that's personally speaking only lar. U may find 1300+/- a very good / deep fall. Me - i sneeze at it lor .

wei, don't shoot the messenger ar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 13 2012, 11:10 PM

er.. Pinky, 25% of yr UT portfolio only (eg. yr UT portfolio is say 60% of investable assets and thus, it's 25% * 60%?)
OR
25% of your investable assets ?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 13 2012, 11:12 PM

Whoa.. bro, 2008 "prices" = KLCI at 838.28 lowest.. THAT would be a real lelong bargain
I think the local erection won't have such an impact, UNLESS combined as a 1-2-3 combo of erection + EU kabloey + Japan or US kabloey
Just a thought ar, no crystal balls

hehe - new highs a few times already lar this month.
ie. pass ceiling liao, gotta build new roof & ceiling

er.. bro, i think U are posting in the wrong topic/thread IF U are focusing on "..to learn to value a company to invest primarily in dividend instead of capital gain".
Fund houses and Mutual funds/Unit Trusts - U would never know in real-time what companies they are investing in, nor would U know what companies the funds are holding in real-time. Post-real time (like every Quarter), the fund houses may publish their TOP holdings per fund, and even then, it's not ALL the holdings per fund.

Try scrounging around the Stock Exchange threads/topics http://forum.lowyat.net/StockExchange , and search for dividend investing.

In addition, U can pop over to your favourite book store and look for http://www.dynaquest.com.my/spg.html which has several donkey years of data (EPS, DPS, PEs, etc) + last 3 years of financial ratios. U can also try online subscription to Equities Tracker http://www.equitiestracker.com/
Both the book + online does have write-ups on each of the statistics' usages for U to develop your own filtering criteria.

Just a thought