well if the question is do you really need beautiful football i'll have to say yes. there should be a mix of both. as a fan, i'm entertained when my team wins a game. as a general football fan i prefer watching games with a lot of style and fluidity.

i think both of them should be balanced in a team. but i'd give winning 55% and style 45%. in the end of the day, u are a professional. u get paid to aide the team towards a victory. and i'll say victory comes first before style.

yes, for football sake, we really need beautifull football.. i personally dislike the negative way of playing football and the so called long pass type team (bolton, liverpool, england, greece). they play for the result only.. they did forget that fans pay ticket to be entertained.. i dont think that a true loyal fan will be very dissapointed if their team did'nt win anything but play a good attractive football. it is the manager and coaches job to win matches using good atrractive football. thats what make a difference between coaches. people like sir alex, arsene, rijkaard and a few more know how to make the team play beautifull football. i am pretty sure, that every football players in this world like to play a good football including us, but then again they need to listen on how their manager want they to play. the main culprit that that damage the beautifull football is those manager who afraid that by playing a good football will cost their job. message to all those managers, if you dont know how to make your team win matches by playing beautifull football, for football sake, please resign..

This post has been edited by presario9: May 3 2008, 12:42 AM

i believe managers nowadays are in intense pressure to bring success to the club, they need to play tactical tactics, something safe, winning 1-0 is already a fair results, enough to satisfy their multi-millionaire boss & to keep their job at bay.It is always difficult to play free flowing football, because you are attacking so intensively & most of the time your defence will leak out, thats has what been happening to Arsenal this season i believe. However, i'll still prefer to see two attacking team playing against each other. Tactical football are very much like italian football, no offence to italian fans but thats what i felt abt their club football.

I'm a fan of the beautiful football. For me, nothing beats watching a pulsating match, lots of good passing and dribbling, one touch passes and etc. I can see where you guys are coming from by saying trophies matters most at the end of the day. I cannot disagree with you guys on this as managers and bosses nowadays care about results more than anything else. You get sack if you don't perform. But there has to be a balance in doing so. I'd really hate to see a boring team play boring football but winning the title, but at the same time, you cannot say they don't deserve it.

Arsenal plays argubly the best football in England although i would stop short of saying they're the best in England. The best team in England wins the EPL league, period. People question why Wenger isn't sack despite not winning anything for the past 3 seasons. You got to admire the way he builts his squad, look at his limited resource, his youth superstars and they play the beautiful game. The fans love it, you'd hardly see any of the fans booing the team despite us losing. Because even if we lost, the fans know we actually went all out attacking to find an equalising goal or winner. Or if we're winning, you'd never see us retreating, play defensively, waste excessive amount of time and do any anti-football stuff on the pitch. That might have explained why over the year we tend to concede despite taking the lead or trying to protect the lead. To me, thats the way football should be played.

Couple of seasons ago, Norwich was playing in the EPL. Though they were relegated, i always thought this team played some positive football. They didn't go out the pitch, to try to secure a draw or to avoid a heavy defeat. They actually came out to play the game and try to win it. I thought it was very nice of them to play with that spirit. They conceded many goals but i still remembered them for the way they played. Similarly, in World Cup 2006 when Italy won it. If you ask me which team actually played the best football. Its not Italy but i personally think Argentina played the best but despite losing out, people still remember the scintilating football. Italy were efficient. They were playing very tight at the back, never concided much goals but they scored when it matters most.

Back to the question of Man Utd this season, lets not take the Barca match as an example. Whole season long, they actually played very good attacking football. They scored the most goals and conceded the least, so thats pretty good to begin with. Its only against Barca that they switched strategy but SAF probably had something on his mind by doing so.

As much as Avram Grant has promised to bring attractive football to Chelsea, i still don't see how has he fullfilled the promise. Chelsea is a good efficient side. They somehow gets the job done, but for me as i said, i'm a fan of beautiful football.

People have to take a step back and stop pigeonholing teams. If you want any amount of sustained success in terms of trophies you have to score goals. And to score goals you have to attack. I always thought it was unfair of ppl to label Chelsea defensive when they won their first title with Mourinho. They played some good football with their 4-3-3 system (I know some would disagree with me here).

And sometimes you also have to be clever with your tactics. Playing for the result is fine when there is a need for it. Even during Arsenal's "invincible" season I can remember there were times when Wenger would throw Kanu in just to hold the ball at the corner flag to waste time. You could argue that if the current Arsenal did more of that this season then maybe they would have still been in it right till the end. Just a thought.

Spot on giotto. Unfortunately circumstances are major determining factors these days.

Verx, scoring goals can be a portion of attacking football, however its never completely attacking football. Mourinho's Chelsea scored goals, but his team wasn't an attacking Chelsea; it was an efficient Chelsea. I'm not entirely sure if I can agree with your definition of good attacking football from Chelsea under Mourinho, unless of course, you mean that "good" football. About Wenger and Kanu's time wasting, I sense an accusing tone so I'll clear up some opinions. Do you see Eboue getting away scot-free from Wenger after he dived in an attempt to earn a freekick during the 05/06 ECL finals against Barcelona? See the discrepancies? I believe the decision to waste time was Kanu's himself. I wouldn't be satisfied if Arsenal were to win any trophies that way.

I'm surprised some fans place trophies above anything else i.e attacking football. I almost died of boredom from watching the Fiorentina - Rangers match. If any of the said fans watched the Fiorentina - Rangers match, I'd like to hear some response.

Football is a dynamic game. Chelsea's style may not have been beautiful as Arsenal but they scored goals so you can't say they are a defensive side. And all I'm saying is that I think ppl have to learn how to differentiate between the two. When they played with 2 wingers they did play football that was pleasing to the eye at times. But yes they do focus on keeping it tight at the back as well. I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is title wining teams have to keep a balance between attacking and defending. Where they find that balance depends on the coach.

And I wasn't accusing Kanu or Wenger of time wasting, I actually support it. It's part of the game. You have to be clever sometimes to win games.

And why is it Liverpool still have massive away and home following? Perhaps it's because we support the club for other reasons?

Just to add, I take offence to being compared to Bolton. I do not think Rafa is a long ball merchant. Houllier, yes. Rafa, no. Funny you should mention us and not Chelsea. No offence to Chelsea supporters, but I think you use the long ball as much as us if not more. I see numerous punts to Drogba each game.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 3 2008, 05:36 PM

true enough when robben and duff were on the flanks,chelsea were fluid in attack,as well as keeping the back line disciplined and efficient..many fans were disappointed to see those two go,as they gave chelsea a lot of flair (and goals btw) going forward.but as u said,there must always be a balance between defence and attack in order to win games..sticking to an 'attacking philosophy' when a crucial game's already won and ending up with a draw will surely displease most fans if not all.sometimes the spectacle has to be sacrificed for the greater good..unless of course u don't mind your club not winning anything season after season.that's why it's the nature of the modern game nowadays for most clubs to choose substance over style when the situation calls for it

my answer to that question been brought up, is NO, we don't need beautiful football..as we can see, football has evolved to be more tactical than ever..less and less creativity and flicks needed..but who really cares, there are still billions of people still watch football every day..as long as goals scored, and as long as people get something to celebrate for, joga bonito is no longer needed

and i agree, results and trophies are the most important thing..i know this very well, bcoz, as a barca fan, i always watch barca being defeated by teams that applied very disciplined gameplay with great tactics, with only 1 mission, to stop barca play our own brand of football(that is, exquisite through balls and beautiful one-twos)..especially in nou camp..man, sometimes opponents play like 9-0-1 formation with no intention of going forward at all over 90 minutes!!after that we got draw or defeat at home..and that really favours the opponents..barca's player look dejected, and opponents are jubilant and said "mission accomplished"..

beautiful football is not needed, win is needed!!

but, for me, i will be happy if my team win..but i will feel very proud if my team play beautifully..so i prefer my team to play beautifully ..dat is why i become a barca fans..barca always play beautifull football for generations..cruyff, maradona, ronaldo gemok, figo, many of those flair based players have played for us

conclusion, just enjoy the game

cheers

like i said la..after d match, football fans all over italy branded rangers with all types of swearing words..rangers were beingsonegativeover 2legs,but in d end who get to d finals?who will enter the record books?

that will help strenghten my answer regarding the question being brought forward

This post has been edited by matyrze: May 4 2008, 02:52 PM

You gave 2 very contrasting answers. One moment you're saying you don't need beautiful football and joga bonito is no longer needed. Towards the end you say you like Barcelona coz they always play beautiful football for generations, and that you prefer your team to play beautifully. So what is your final preference?

If you really do like Barcelona, i have a feeling you're a fan of beautiful football, not your previous statement of not wanting beautiful football. Barcelona and Real has always been about playing beautiful football. You'd realise that both this team always strive to buy the best players available ie Robinho, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Figo, Zidane and etc. The boardroom and the fans itself cannot tolerate the team playing boring football and even if the results didn't come, they know the shirts would still sell like hot cakes.

This post has been edited by giotto: May 4 2008, 10:53 PM

i comprehend the question wrongly ..MANAGERS and PLAYERS are d ones that don't need it

I need it i dun wanna fell asleep during matches..i once fell asleep at mamak when i joined my friends to watch a bpl game (dun wanna mention which team in 'action' that time)..boring gilerrr...

This post has been edited by matyrze: May 5 2008, 10:54 AM

Correct...

Whoever says Liverpool is a long ball team is not a keen observer of the game or he / she is just a biased competing clubs' fans...

The only player to clear it upfield apart from Reina is Carra, really stupid to suggest Liv being a long ball team...we pass our way up, period. In fact, sometimes I wished we would just kick it upfield a little more to make use of Torres' pace...

i dont know others people,but i NEED beautifull football for sure...go to youtube n type freestyle or well know skilled player's name from any team at search box..then watch the video from result..sape yg tak suke tengok?

Beautiful football, short fast paced passing, just an eye-catching performance from that particular team..
EVERYBODY loves to watch these kind of football, as a liverpool fan, i always switch on my tv, just to see Arsenal`s football...Nevertheless, Manutd are playing beautiful football too !

but i dont agree that, "I mean becomes an entertaining side but failed to win any titles"....
The year when Barca won the Champions League against Arsenal, they play beautifully, ends up with silverware...
Sometimes sad case happens like Arsenal, plays PREETY WELL, but lost some form, end up with no silverware...

[at the end of the day, the sponsors will be flooding in; if the big team always show the good results, no matter how ugly / defensive is their playing style.
i don't mind it if my favourite team win by a single goal margin....especially when they're playing in the final rather than playing beautifully and still end up losing 3 - 4
any disagreement?

If nt beautiful who want to watch...

some team play as-long-as-no-need-lose-so-park-bus tactic...do they even care about beautiful football?
ask barnsley when they beat the shit out of liv and chelsea..
ask reading..
do they wan beautiful football or they want a draw/win to secure their BPL position?

tak jugak. as long as fans strongly support their team (like barca..on this difficult time)...sponsor still coming becoz they know there's till a huge of potential buyer. (also other clubs like..the kops..milanisti..juvenitti..culers..madridista etc..etc) . even my team lost 10-11 in row..i'm still support my team becoz i'm always believe we'll strike back on the next (or another) season.

This post has been edited by fcbarcelona-my: May 11 2008, 11:46 AM

as long as you win, your football is beautiful.
if you lose, no matter how beautiful your football is, your club owner stil regard it as ugly