Can Sue STG if they don't honour their words?

I don't know. You tell me. So is this thing here supposed to be a MLM? Simple answer expected. Yes or No.

Actually, this reasoning here is now getting rather pathetic. Ownership of a car is drastically different from the agreement that's being signed here. The more accurate comparison is if you're to sign up on a car loan, and part of the terms states that the bank can change any part of the agreement as they like without consulting you at all, even including how much interest you need to pay on it.

But the key point to note here is not to do with not being able to amend for good or for bad, but its more to do with being able to amend the signed agreement without the need to even consult with those who had paid money into the scheme. Any lawyer will tell you that such is an extremely stupid agreement to sign.

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Added on August 3, 2008, 9:15 amThe answer to this is obvious. If you've signed an agreement that allows them to change the terms and conditions as they see fit, on what basis have you got to sue them at all?

This post has been edited by fyire: Aug 3 2008, 09:15 AM

But the key point to note here is not to do with not being able to amend for good or for bad, but its more to do with being able to amend the signed agreement without the need to even consult with those who had paid money into the scheme. Any lawyer will tell you that such is an extremely stupid agreement to sign.
yeah! it is so stupid and it is the agreement is made by a lawyer too. Well those are package buyers of STG membership and of course they can't amend the details.

Actually, this reasoning here is now getting rather pathetic. Ownership of a car is drastically different from the agreement that's being signed here. The more accurate comparison is if you're to sign up on a car loan, and part of the terms states that the bank can change any part of the agreement as they like without consulting you at all, even including how much interest you need to pay on it.
It was just an exm. la bro. So it means even when we paid the loan with the interest agreed and bank earns u for that plus u cry for whatever bank needs to amend in the agreement signed....well wat makes the different now as we'd sign the fine lines..so do u advised me signing for the car loan is stupid too?

I don't know. You tell me. So is this thing here supposed to be a MLM? it is a YES and it is a NO too.

Nice try at twisting the words. Something that is brilliant for a seller may be dumb for a purchaser. Hence the purpose of lawyers in the first place, to craft a document to the benefit of those who had paid them to do so.

Interesting too about your comment on the buyers amending the details, as the more pressing issue is more of on the owners being able to amend without consulting with the buyers.

So by your own words, this scheme of yours can fall under the category of MLM?

You defended this business plan, which you wished to share with all us, so valiantly throughout even though there were some forumers who insisted in a very persistent manner that the entire business thingy was a scam.

You also took pictures of the branch in Sunway Pyramid and posted up in this thread so enthusiastically, even when the moderator had informed that such action is irrelevant as the topic that’s being discussed is about the suspicious characteristic of the whole business plan, all in the name of wanting to update us on the physical progress of the Steven Tea Garden (STG) restaurant.

Now when [fyire] only asked for an answer on whether or not the business plan falls under the Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) category and you, who had dedicated days, weeks and months in backing up this business plan that you wished to share with all of us, couldn’t even give him a straight answer?

This post has been edited by spartacvs: Aug 5 2008, 11:07 AM

Pls email me the Franchise opportunity details, i am interested about it!.

My email is kolow20@gmail.com. Thanks

fyire,
This is not my scheme oK, i don;t own the co. if i own the co. i won't be wasting my time here answering as i'm here to post updates...non of u guys are willing to participate to get news for the forumers here..only waiting to be spoon feed by infos coming from non STG ppl...that's all i'll anser u reg. the MLM as u don;t know how the plans goes..so be it since u guys are sticking to the threat to get infos...

If depend on who is the lawyer boss my fren...then u can ask the buyer to draft the agreement instead...better!

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Added on August 4, 2008, 9:36 amu see..all ppl won't have any guts or balls to understand the plan face to face and yet they want everything is here..get a life bro,,,things don;t happen without moving ur big ass and fine the real truth urself...my time here is to share the updates and about the MLM thingy....as i told u it is YES and it is NO...so it's that simple...even a 5years old can understand. there are no need for me to defend/protect/stand for the plan as as i told u i started the threat for sharing or if the moderator are not happy with it, they can stop this thread anytime they want, i'm on with that coz i got nothing to loose either..even the discussion has been rounding to the same place so i guess better it goes for the end and since the 1st outlet will be officially launch this coming 08/08/08 so...i don't think i need to answer anymore whether this is a scam or not...if u go and ask me well u can scam ppl even u got 2 to 3 outlets then i guess pls stop this thread coz i'm too tire of u guys..thanks for stopping the thread and i appreciated it.

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Added on August 4, 2008, 9:38 amsorry bro. only face to face meet up upon booking. as i'm not goin to do any selling since i don;t hv to anyway. if ur really interest pls show that ur interest and meet me up at the HQ..coz it is a waste for me to answer ppl here. i'll PM u my no.

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: Aug 4 2008, 09:38 AM

If this is the case, then this thread had just degenerated into a promotion of a F&B outlet. So why is it still doing in the Finance, Business and Investment House section instead of being in Kopitiam?

Correct. You've just killed you earlier point in regards to the 'stupidity' when it comes to the signing of such an agreement just because it is drafted by a lawyer, as it very much depends on the intention of the person hiring the lawyer in the first place.

More to the point now, so what sort of legal protection does a buyer have in this scheme of yours to ensure that the seller is bound to the original points of the agreement, taking into consideration that the agreement grants the seller to change the terms & conditions as they see fit without consulting the buyer?

Based on the way you replied, you must have thought that I was being sarcastic about the way you shared the business plan to all of us but you got it all wrong. I wasn’t being sarcastic when I said about how you defended the business plan so valiantly and also the level of enthusiasm that you have in wanting to post up the pictures of the outlet in Sunway Pyramid. I was amazed at the perseverance level that you have but when you weren't able to give [Fyire] a straight answer to his question on whether or not the business plan falls under the MLM category, that seriously put me off.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, as I doubt you would, simply based on the way you replied, but I was interested in the business plan until you couldn't give a straight answer to a simple Yes/NO question.

Anyway, I wish you luck in this business.


This post has been edited by spartacvs: Aug 4 2008, 10:51 AM

yeah, if ur goin to sign the dotted line with all the agreement agreeable by u then it is up top u to trust them and not me...i'd already sign it since april. So if u felt like this thread should go..then so be it...i guess i don;t even hv the right to move it,..or the moderator can move it or just abandone it but i guess u hv to ask mr.chat as he is then one insist on keeping the thread....even the discussion already been answered before by Devil2 ...so what kinda issue ur asking me when u buy something as a membership and get rewarded in few years time.?

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Added on August 4, 2008, 12:42 pmi t makes be so sad to hear that u feel bad about how i answered them..well it doesn't make any different with u too as the answer itself already told u that everything being told from me here got nothing to deal with MLM....if u want to earn from this project then i can tell u it is a YES..so what u want to know NOW? the membership program or the business? even about the business, we can;t talk here as here is for sensitive ppl.

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: Aug 4 2008, 12:42 PM

So in other words, you are now confirming that the wording of the agreement gives the seller the right change the terms of the agreement at any time without consultation with the buyer, including to the point of not needing to abide by the original terms at all?

Furthermore, you are now confirming that due to the above, the seller is rendered immune from any form of legal action from the buyer should the seller does not abide by the original terms due to the fact that the seller can change the terms as they see fit?

And by the way, Devil2 had never at all touched in this aspect of the agreement which is to do with legal protection for the buyer.

I heard my friends talked about it as well. Alot of my friends tempted to join . Eventually they joined .My friends forked out almost 50 thousand on this steven corner project. What i heard is if u "con" someone to join he's under you and you gets 10 percent. If he "con" another person u get 10 percent as well. I believe this is a scam. 300% is alot and it's tempting alot people .

well i'm not the lawyer nor do i know law...so better still u read it for yourself as all those question u asked are pertaining and subjective to how u want to see it too in a win win manners...so from my previous post, if u don;t like wats in the agreement then better u leave it and perhaps what u means is better for the buyer to draft the agreement them self and ask the STG owner to sign...lol...sorry for laughing. everything u buy or sign does has it's own terms and conditions and because the 2nd party not agree so they will hv to draft it themself ..is that how u buy a property or sign a car loan?

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Added on August 4, 2008, 10:12 pmwow...this is a wild guess or u hv the proof for they con ppl in? i'm in the project since it started but never heard of " i con i get?" as a membership u get fees from advertising even ur not asking anyone to join? so wat's about the conning here? can let me know...?


<unneeded insults + off topic advertisement materials edited out>

This post has been edited by fyire: Aug 4 2008, 11:55 PM

Actually no. This is only you attempting to divert from the issue that the agreement as drafted by STG's lawyers offers the buyer totally zero legal protection should STG attempts not to abide by the original agreement points, seeing that the agreement allows them to change the terms and conditions without consultation to the buyer at all.

An attempt to divert from the point here is akin to an attempt to mislead. Clauses like such are something that all potential buyers of anything should watch out for most of all, as its very existence means that something is not right. Scam or no scam, such a clause is still something that should spark alarms right away, and you have got whoever that is responsible for the drafting of the agreement in such a manner to blame for the bad image given here.

Perhaps you are defensive over this because you are involved in some way with STG, or merely because you have signed up as a member of this, but this does not in any way mean that all is well and that everybody should just trust your words merely because you're a member.

To answer your question directly, yes, that is how I do it. I had my own lawyer check through the agreement when I did my property purchase. For my car loan, I did not go to the extend of getting a lawyer, as its more straight forwards. Case in point here is that I make sure that that I have got sufficient legal protection especially in the purchase of property to ensure that the developer does not try anything funny. If there are clauses that states that the developer is allowed to change the terms and conditions as they see fit, then it is a good sign that the entire thing will turn out to be a scam.

Go back and take a good look at your own car or property purchase agreements, and tell me if you can find any clauses in there that states that the seller is allowed to change anything in there without consultation with you.

In short, you are once again attempting to divert from the point here. Sure, all agreements has got terms and conditions. Having terms and conditions is not the problem. The problem is when part of the agreement allows one party to change the original agreed upon T&C as they see fit without even consulting the other party at all. And again as I had mentioned above, this is akin to an attempt to mislead.

I agree, it's not fair to have silicon posting his real identity here. I'm starting to feel chatwarrior has his negative motive here....like he's trying to get Silicon to reveal his face....

Somehow I just feel that something's just not right. I feel it in my gut.

Kudos!!

Very well said!!

ur are the ones that asking for the agreement and even now you'd not read that..better u ask ur lawyer to read it 1st before tok. so after reading then pls commend to all the other ppl since ur the one with the lawyer. better still u can help and warn the others if this is not fair to them. right?

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Added on August 5, 2008, 10:16 amof course u don't feel right...it is your input which is wrong.

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: Aug 5 2008, 10:16 AM

Perhaps, but it is also very interesting to take note of the fact that:
1) You've not denied the existence of the clause that allows the seller to change the terms and conditions as they see fit without any form of consultation to the buyer at all
2) You've partially confirmed the existence of this clause when you had stated the following before:

Anyways, the one confirmed advice that I can give to all those who are looking at this scheme:
- Make sure to look through the agreement properly to check for such clauses, and be aware of the implication of such clauses
- Consult with your own lawyer on the implications of such an agreement if necessary

Surely you cannot disagree with this right?

This post has been edited by fyire: Aug 5 2008, 11:11 AM

Taking aside of issue of the legitimate of the scheme.

Fyire just warning in general of potential of clauses which potential might not in favourable to the investors 'prepaid buyers' which can or might be openly dictated or abused by the offerer depended on the sincerity of the offerer.
I don't see nothing wrong with that. Can't educate and warn people so that to be more alert in whatever investment , prepaid scheme or whatever stuff or contract?

You are the one had signed up the contract, you are the one knows all in and out of the contract compared to forumers out there. You are the one have the copy of the contract as well (after you signed up, you should have the copy, right?)
If sincerely want to help people out there, then you are the one that can help. Please don't be out of topic or twist the focal point by asking people to find out, you should have already knew as you are the one familiar the most with the STG scheme.

Keep on shifting the focal points and twist and turn might lead to more suspectibility of the scheme on the public view.

Cheers.