How do we know it wasn't about money back then? Chin Aun still around and we can go ask him. People don't called him "tauke" for nothing. Money or patriotism will surely helps but not to the extent that we can beat South Korea or Japan with that highest patriotism. If that so, it's not too difficult to quarantine every national players for one or two months and bring some experts to boost their patriotism. Before the introduction of Semi Pro or Pro League, most national players attached to either Banking Co. or goverment agency. They have a job but don't have to work like others. Instead, they play football with piece of mind waiting for their monthly salary to feed their family.

This is not a politics forum but since you mentioned it and it is something to do with football, I guess it's alright for me to talk about it too. Politicians, doesn't matter if they're UMNO, MCA or MIC will do anything to get more votes. UMNO of course from the Malays and the same goes to MCA or MIC. How do we know what happened at MCA assembly will help national integration or patriotism. Do you actually believe the politicians nowadays (especially the government) means what they're talking about but to get the votes only? And do you believe the minister with the bare keris have guts to fight with just his bare hands??? I guess not.

If you read what I posted again, you'll notice I actually said, "It wasn't ALL about the money". Different meaning when you conveniently remove the "ALL" in my sentence. As for nationalism, would you as a player not strive to improve if playing for a country you are proud off? It's the same at work, no? A happy worker is a productive worker. The more you love your job, the more effort you put into it. Is talent important? Of course but without any heart, the talent is wasted.

I don't get your comparison between the professional and semi-professional leagues. You are saying that players back then played better because they had financial security? Shouldn't that mean that without the financial security, they should play harder and work at improving because their salaries come from football, only one source as opposed to two?

What does all this have to do with what I said? There is a racial divide. Many more people today (more so other races) are less patriotic and some of it has to do with politics. This then means that people don't feel as proud anymore putting on their national kit. What does what you just said have to do with this?

Ok, correction. It's not all about money. But what I'm trying to say, with less patriotism, if they have a good skill (not talent), they can win too. And it's not easy to measure if they're patriotic enough or not compare to our old days players. We don't know if theye're patriotic or not but we do know if their skills are good enough or not. Of course a happy worker is a productive worker. But, if I am a manufacturer, I want a skill worker more than anything. And for the talent, it must be polished. You can't polish the talent at international level when they're in the late teenage. This is our product now. With talent or not, they must start playing competitively and systimatically from their early age before their teenagers day.

The introduction of Semi and Pro League is a disaster to me. Before all players turn to pro status, everybody can play for their states team. We have teachers, an engineers and many profesionals playing football for their states. They're not only skillful but very intelligent players too. But, any of us here wants to play for any states team if we're given choices between a M League professional footballer or a doctor? My point is, most of our so called professional footballer is schools drop out. No offence to anybody, but it's a fact that good footballers with brain stop playing football seriously when they enter college or universities. This is different when our old days players can still working while playing for national team. They have source of income after they stop playing football. Footballers can only playing for 10 - 15 years as a professional. RM10K monthly won't be enough to support the whole family after they retired. Not to mention most of our average professional players income only about RM2-5K monthly - thats not including the payment delays and everything.

And for the politics, I don't want to talk more as it maybe not relevant to our discussion IMO.

One could argue that like leaders, players are either born with talent or without. I'm sure that by training they can probably push themselves to play to their fullest potential but the question is, will they if they don't have heart? I don't suppose there is a right or wrong answer here. It's just that in my opinion, you can't buy heart but you can develop a set of skills over time with the proper training and guidance. You can teach someone to play football but you can't force him to want to.

As for the issue of patriotism, I'm basing it on my own experience. I made a trip to Jakarta over the weekend and met with a Regional Manager from my clients end. He is from India and the group of us were having a discussion on our countries. He made a stark observation; that many Malaysians now refer to themselves by their race before their nationality. What this means is that someone like me would most likely go, "I'm Chinese" instead of "I'm Malaysian". "I'm Chinese but I live in Malaysia". Well you get my drift. I have personally noticed that those around me don't even countdown to Merdeka anymore. Far as they are concerned, it's a public holiday and nothing more. How many fly their flags? Why does the government have to keep urging the public to do so?

I don't know what existed before the Semi-Pro league but I do think we still played decent football back then. Not as well as in the 70's of course but we could still score two against England and not lose to teams by a rugby margin.

I do see where you're coming from with the 'intelligent players' bit and I have to agree completely. Field a bunch of monkeys and before you know it, they'll be scratching each others backs. In the case of our players, they often look lost at sea and have no idea what to do with the ball when under pressure, resulting in long hopeful punts up the park or wayward passes to the opposition.

I see where you are coming from in terms of pay as well. To some, RM 2 - 5K may seem like a lot but as you pointed out, the people in this category probably have little or no education. Those who are educated would most likely opt for other career opportunities because football in this country does not present you with many career options after you retire. At least by playing and having worked in a bank or whatever, a player has options to pursue his secondary career.

Not to bump in with a silly question while you guys are debating:

-- some here claimed that certain national players were *made* as national players because of their family had connections. So my question is, as some had claimed to know, who are these player's names? (current team)

I can't name you a single national player with the exception of Akmal Rizal. My source come from friends who were either former league players that got sick of the politics and sought other means of income, or those who are friends with football players.

I take it you are suggesting our current selection policy is fair and just; and that the current crop of players who have helped contribute to our nation being ranked below war torn countries, are the best we can find?

No way!
While I don't know how the selection process is done, but I'm with majority here right from the beginning -- the current crop of players are just not good enough.
Not at all.
Not by a long shot.
If that's the best we can find, and the selection of "finding the best" after all these years are done the same way..
.. we are definitely le screwed

I'm just wondering for actual players that are selected without any political connection, of how is the scouting (going from school to school? recommended by teachers?) and selection process are done actually.

I would like to know as well. If I remember correctly, Selangor held open tryouts before the beginning for the season and only like 20 odd people turned up. As I said, I may be mistaken but I do remember something very similar happening. What could have contributed to the lack of interest? I mean this is to the point where a club side is holding open tryouts hoping for youngsters to want to join them. Where is the QC? In other leagues, budding players would give anything for a chance to join a club side and here we are begging for people to come. Could it be that players are sick of all that's happened to Malaysian football; politics and all? Could it be that they simply don't feel any national pride anymore? Well you be the judge. All I know is we're in the doldrums now.

Malaysia's football is alway pair with "Hopeless".

if football/politic ties broken, i m sure the ranking will shoot up higher...even the great SAF n JM cant save the team at all

Source --> http://utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y=200...an&pg=su_03.htm


1. Now that know that majority of coaches is not well qualified. They qualified (with their A License), but not that good enough to the level of professional.

2. Does it make any difference? Maybe it does, well, hopefully it does.
Though I have a feeling it won't last long.

well it malaysian dude..since KJ is busy promoted himself becoming "successful" politician..so,just see what happen to FAM

if he won,he have more job
we have good chance to decrease our rank

I read somewhere in this thread that Malaysia would be in great advantage if they asked The Special One to help train our players.
Looks like its too late since he's about to go to Japan.

Source --> http://utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y=200...ra&pg=sl_08.htm

We've had Claude Le Roy before and it did not make any difference.

Dr. Josef Venglos was here too. It's not about the management but the players themselves. We're lacking good and skillful footballers nowadays.

we're not lacking good and skillfull footballers,but motivated and patriotic footballer,its more towards money

We need professional not politician in football...

Talent has to be groomed from a really young age. I don't know how PE classes are run these days but when I was in school, the teacher would just chuck a ball in the pitch and have 30 odd students chase after it. Even during a proper school team selection and training process, it was run by the same PE teacher. My question is if this particular PE teacher is even a qualified coach? Chances are he isn't. The proper mentality and discipline has to be drilled into players at a very young age. Your mind is like a sponge when you are younger.

but if the person is not politician,the chances for them to get the position is very low..its truly Malaysian and as a result our ranks become worst and worst