university college is college sized institution or a collection of college sized institutions, but could already offer degree and post-graduate courses (colleges couldnt offer post grad). so its between a college and a university. it doesnt have full facilities and expertise as a full university yet.

6 years (3 years diploma + 3 years degree). one tip: belajar rajin2 and score astronomical cgpa pointers so that u can be offered direct intake from diploma into degree without the need to practice for 1 year. so u can save 1 year.

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Added on April 17, 2008, 6:38 pmthat's quite a different jump of field, i must say. i dont know any advice that i could give other than those i've already given throughout this thread. i especially dont know how to convince anyone against doing aviation. so u wanna take architecture, but tell me, why dont u wanna be a pilot?

This post has been edited by azarimy: Apr 17 2008, 06:38 PM

well, if u're from poly diploma, i assume u've achieved draftmanship at blinding speed, so i suppose working part time should not be a problem for u. but architecture is simply not one of those courses that u could spend extra time doing other things. if u do, manage ur time properly.

well, the job description is pretty obvious from the job title, isnt it?

draftpersons draft drawings. they are well versed in all technical drawings, design details and more importantly the architectural vocabulary. they communicate via drawings, so like in any language, a firm command in vocabulary is important. what they draw must really represent the real object to scale.

that is the primary job of draftpersons. they could also be architectural technicians, where they are also involved in site visits, checking up construction progress, dealing with ammendments of drawings with other consultants and authourities etc.

so what is the difference between the two? technicians are part 1 architects. in most offices they're also the draftpersons. however, big offices differentiate between draftpersons and technicians, but smaller offices only employ part 1 bcoz they can do both.

what do u need to become a draftperson? junior draftpersons (newbies, beginners) only need autocad certificate. after a week's induction course, u should be able to perform menial tasks in the office. senior draftpersons need a diploma. but a diploma holder could also apply as a junior technician. so it depends on what u can do...

i was given:

i. a bungalow renovation in PJ for an entrepreneur who was a close friend of my boss. his bungalow was already big enough, but he just got another lump of money, his children are growing, so he decided to expand. he barely had enough space for his two mercedez. the space was quite limited bcoz his bungalow already filled in most of the compound. although it's just a bungalow renovation, it costs about RM1.8mil for that only. i turned a typical featureless bungalow into a bali resort.

i handled from the very beginning, discussing with the client, putting up presentations of proposals, amendments, redesigning and reproposals. bcoz of my inadequate knowledge in supplies and costing, my boss occasionally accompany me during such meetings to help me on those aspects. i went to lepak at the client's house a few times, trying to get a feel of it. sometimes we conduct on site discussions as well. finally i built a model to show the client what it would look like, and he agreed.

in the drawing production stage i was less involved bcoz i went into the next project. i finally let go the project to another architect (part 3) in the office bcoz my boss wanted me to concentrate on the next project. when i left the office to join UTM the project was already 80% done. i didnt get to see the final product, only saw pictures.



ii. the next project was quite a controversial one. it was a mixed development - a commercial complex podium with two apartment towers on top of the podium. that's not the controversial part. the controversial part is that currently on site was a 4-block low cost PKNS flats. people dont wanna move from the site. there had been protests. the site is right behind LRT jelatek in keramat. the flat is still there, bcoz the project got postponed indefinitely. with keadilan taking over selangor, i doubt the project will ever see the light of day.

the project belonged to PKNS. when i came in, it's already been in proposal since 1996. i realized the reason i was brought in is bcoz no one could stand the head architect of PKNS (en. halim). he was a mean prick especially when it comes to design. he even called the office, asked to specifically talk to me, simply to bash my design. WTF! but my boss already knew that i'm not the kinda guy who'd take it up the ass, so he let me do whatever i need to do to get better. with a help from my close friend fauzan who is also working in the office, we went down to UTM, discussed with several lecturers on the best design, and cooked up a good presentation.

in the end, the PKNS people were quite impressed with the design (especially since two very young kids taking over from the big boys in the office). truthfully, my boss already fed-up with PKNS. he wanted to move on. the project has been stuck at design stage since 1996! it's already 5 years! but we finally convinced them. my boss was impressed. we started to work on the project seriously when PKNS finally got the red light from above for that project. so it was postponed indefinitely.




those two projects overlapped quite a lot. i was juggling between the two when finally my boss decided i should concentrate on the keramat complex. at some point, i slept at the office just to finish the proposal. during that time, we dont get overtime pay (bcoz of 1997 recession was still in effect). our boss' principle was simple. u work at ur own time based on deadline. whether u wanna come to the office or not, it's up to u, as long as the job gets done by the end of the day. that's what we did.

when we're more free, we help others on their projects as well, especially site or construction visits. my boss was quite disappointed when i told him i'm going fulltime with academia. but since he was a lecturer in UTM too, he understood my drive. fauzan left the office bcoz he and his wife was offered at sime UEP. he's the one i mentioned previously who worked as a naval architect. now he's back in KL preparing for his part 3.

what do u mean "without the need to get a job first"?

ofcourse we've got to be employed by an office first . fauzan and i was offered a job even before we graduated. so right after we finished studying, we joined the office straight away. only i did so at part-time basis (i was teaching part-time in UTM at the time).

nope. it happens all the time, especially for established schools. remember, most of my lecturers have their own firms. my boss and two of his associates were all ex-lecturers of UTM. the associates are now in UM (PM saari omar and mr. asrul mahjuddin). all were my lecturers. so all u need to do is exhibit ur qualities (short of bodek, coz i dont do bodek), and they will pick u right before u graduate.

this is why u WANT to go to established schools, bcoz the contacts the lecturers could give u.

nope. just a lame-ass 2nd class upper.

i got 3.45 during my diploma.

to tell u the truth, i'm not one of them who would give more time studying that just what's needed to get me to become an architect. i'd rather enjoy my life being a student of architecture, win a few competitions, a couple of dean's list and a best designer award; join student events, performances and movements to change certain policies; and so on.

i've never really paid attention in class unless i wanted to. to me, there are other things a university student should concentrate on other than studies. my father himself was one of anwar's followers during the 70s UM student revolutions. so i understood very well what university students should do. i've shown the school that i could win a dean's list or bag a best designer award if i wanted to. so now i want to spend time doing other things that doesnt relate to academics.

these are the stuff that UTM chose upon when they offered me to join the staff. it's not bcoz of my academic achievements. there are other top scorers already selected based on their academic achievements. what i'm saying is that, academics is NOT everything in architecture. the world is big. literally.

wow factor? hmmm... everything's wow about architecture to me. keep reading this thread, i'll occasionally pop a few pointers, tips, creative stories and so on to keep u interested .

most UTM architecture students will graduate with 2nd class degree. it's too hard to get 1st class bcoz the university set the A grade too high (85-100), compared to other universities. for example, UM is set at 75-100. so only about 1-2% would get a 1st class degree every year. on the other hand, no one will graduate with 3rd class either, bcoz we (the school of architecture) would rather fail them until they upgrade themselves, or until they quit. so no 3rd class graduates here.

with that said, about 80% graduates would be able to secure a job 6 months after graduating, and 100% a year later (not including those continuing to study). most of the later group were not bcoz they couldnt find a job. most of them prefer to rest, lepak2, travel and do other stuff. yes, architecture sometimes take a lot out of u that u need one year break LOL.

refer to the FAQ in the 1st page. u can find the answer in the first 2 posts.

i'm not sure how pilot/aviation does their selection, but if ur statement is correct, it would seem that it is quite a strict selection for a very small number of place. but then again, so is architecture. UTM had to select only 60-80 students out of 1500-2000 applicants each year, UM has an even smaller odds. but u do have a lot of options to study architecture, as well as working after u've graduated.

the way i see it, u could make a deal with ur parents like so:

take up architecture while waiting for the interview for piloting. i mean, u cant exactly be doing nothing while waiting, can u? if they take months to issue a call, then u'd better be spending that time studying for something else as a fall back. so why not take up architecture while waiting? convince ur parents that u will still go for the pilot interview when the call comes through. and if it doesnt, u will still have an equally prestigious profession waiting ahead of u. (ofcourse, u could chose NOT to go for the interview even when they called for u hehhee).

very unlikely, unless u chose to be so. most of the students would secure a place by the time they did practical training.

the firm will get the fee. it's always the firm. architects are paid monthly salary, the boss included. i dunno much about business, but technically to sustain a business firm, u (the architect) cant take ur earning directly from profit. u set a monthly salary for urself even if u're the boss.

for renovation projects, it's about 9-11% depending on complexity. i cant remember how much we were paid for the renovation project. i wasnt part of that project anymore when they discussed the fees.

well, u cant expect to have a lifestyle of an architect already working 10 years right after u graduate. do the calculations: most people are spending waaay to much than what they earn, just so that they could busk in the professional elite lifestyle. throw away the stuff u dont need, u'll get by easily with RM2200.

i started with RM1900. i saved and managed to send RM700 per month to my girlfriend (now wife) studying in the UK for a year. on top of that i was still able to save money to get married. i can do alot with RM3500 i'm getting right now. there are ways to survive, and architects are supposed to be the best of the survivors.

anyways, if u're working in a firm, u dont usually get an incentive or bonus based on projects, but they do give bonus per year, usually before hari raya or chinese new year, just like any other firms.

architects get an increment of about RM300 to RM500 per year depending on performance. in extreme cases like my friend ramesh (who is now already forming his own firm after teaching part time in limkokwing), he started at about RM2000+, and had an exponential increase of salary. by 5 years he was paid more than RM5000 per month, and almost made partner. but then he quit and joined limkokwing, acquired enough contacts in 2 years, and now is setting up his own firm. and he graduated the same year as i did.

the other way is, firms always look for experience first, skills second and academic achievements last. so wht most people do is to job-hop for 2-3 years. when u join ur first office, just take whatever salary u can get (even if its lower than others), but grab as much experience in a year as u can. after 1 year, hop to another office. by then u've already had 1 year experience, and not a fresh grad anymore. ur salary would differ as much as RM300-500 during this hop. then after a year at the 2nd office, hop again. now u've got 2 years experience. this is another RM 300-500 increase of salary.

but remember, 2-3 job hops are acceptable especially if u're a noob. but if u do it too often (say, 4-5 times in 3 years) or at a yearly basis, firms might not wanna take u in at all. why employ someone who's gonna hop again in a year? firms talk, u know . trust me. boss in one firm knows the boss in the other firm. and they talk. alot. especially if they used to date.

simply put, architects dont retire, bcoz they're not bound under labor laws per se. architects have its own professional code of conduct. there's no difference between working for someone or having others work for u at 55. well, the pay might be different, but there are senior architects who still work for others.

u see, to open a firm of ur own, u need 2 things: a long list of contacts and a huge sum of money. the first is easy to get, but even working 50 years u might not be able to acquire the 2nd.

about RM500k to RM1mil for a small office with 3-5 members.

the main advantage is u're ur own boss, and u get to steer things to go the way u wanted to. as an architect, this is a very important aspect. my previous boss allowed me to do whatever i deem necessary, hence he's a good boss in terms of letting their employees flourish. but not many bosses are like that. if u think u want a design to be in someway, ur boss would want things to go his way too, and he has bigger ego than u. so many, if not all, architects would eventually end up in their own firm, or become a partner in an already established firm.

also, having the office with ur name on it is cool, no? if u ask me, i wanted to open a multinational design firm like ZDR (zaini dubuz richez, pronounced zaini duboa righz), a KL+paris+new york architecture firm. i did my practical training at ZDR for a while. awesome environment, but too much testosterones in the office. even the women were butch. that's the truest sense of a design firm i've ever been in. if i were to open my own office, it'll be between that environment and google headquarters.

there are lots of other advantages and disadvantages of opening ur own office. dont worry about it, lets move step by step.

i dunno. it depends really. each job has its payoff for all the stress and pressure u'd endure. an architect gets satisfaction when their design gets built. even better if it wins recognition or award. but simply being built is good enough.

doctors get satisfaction from curing people, or atleast prolonging a life. dr. house only cares about solving the problem, so he doesnt count . the same is about engineers and accountants.

architects get addicted to stress and pressure, bcoz that's when the adrenaline starts pumping. u work long and hard to produce a design, and all those stress are paid off when u've completed the job. and then u get into another project, and the cycle starts all over again.

a job is stressful if the payoff isnt as great as the stress or pressure. accountants are probably the most stressful of all, as their payoff is only in money. architects perhaps is the best stress:payoff ratio, as we get paid, the design gets built, and later we get the recognition and satisfaction of the client.



there are alot of hot chics in architecture. there's even more lingering around architects hoping to get a piece of designer action, if u know what i mean. moreover:




Attached thumbnail(s)

well, u could. but it depends on where u wanna practice.

one might argue that sexy is a subjective thing. but when u get a rather large collection of people saying the same thing, it must count for something .

talking to a few non-architect friends of mine, they generally agree that architects have a certain appeal to them (male or female alike). mostly it's about the high level of confidence throughout, and primarily the alpha male factor applies as well. like the article i've shared earlier, one of the appealing factor about architects is their calmness under pressure. but to me, doctors and lawyers have similar traits as well.

however there's another element that should be considered as well: architects are masters of both arts and science. so they dont really belong in either one of them, but at the same time consist of both.

but all in all, it boils down to the high level of confidence. that's the only thing i find common with everyone i met.

in my experience, the making of a good architect comes from all sorts of reasons. there's no one sure fire way to excel or fail. but one common element that u need is passion. as long as u've got the drive, i'm pretty sure u're in the right track . all the best!


refer to schizo's post, which are generally correct.

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Added on April 20, 2008, 1:30 amyes for both questions.



LAM is referring that it does not recognize the programme, not LAN/MQA. and they recognize individual programmes (part 1 or 2). usually most schools have both programmes recognized, so LAM would issue a canvassing statement that it recognizes the school. for UIAM, for example, only their part 1 programme is recognized. they still need to work for part 2.

none of LKW degree/diploma is accredited by LAM.



equivalent means "with that degree, u can take the Part 1 (or Part 2, whichever applicable) examination". u see, diploma is sub-part 1. so if u take diploma, in almost no way would LAM allow u to take part 1 exam, bcoz u're considered not qualified. it's like trying to take the exam with SPM.

so instead of using the word non-accredited Part 1 degree, they use the word "equivalent to part 1 degree". such degrees does not get any exemption from LAM exams.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Apr 20 2008, 01:31 AM

i cant give definitive answer, as i've got atleast 3 different answers given to me.

but here's what i'm sure of:

u cant get part 2 without part 1.

so now we have two scenarios:

i. u do diploma in LKW, then curtin part 1, and eventually part 2. since that's considered twinning, LAM wont recognize it, regardless if u get part 2.
ii. u do part 1 equiv. degree in LKW, then part 2 in curtin. still, ur part 1 is not recognized.

so what happens if u have a part 2 but not part 1? i have no definitive answer.

i. in architecture, u only have assignments for other subjects than design. but these assignments are minuscule and does not take a lot of ur time. so what keeps architecture students busy?

design projects. these are what takes the bulk of the time. u've done eng. dwgs. how long does it take for u to produce a single complete drawing? 1-3 hours? a complete set would take 20-30 hours easily. ofcourse, u just cant sit down and do just that for 20-30 hours straight. so u spread it throughout the week, maybe 4-5 hours per day. no big deal, right? well, that's just producing the drawings. we havent talked about approving a design yet.

usually, every week u will come up with a proposal, and these will be scrutinized, criticized and developed as part of the design process. and every week u'll restart or atleast redevelop ur design after each crit sessions. so u're continuously doing this every week, progressing and developing ur design to achieve perfection or atleast until ur tutor couldnt find anything wrong with it. why does it take so long to produce a design? bcoz the thinking that goes behind it. ofcourse, u could come up with just a crappy design, but that's not why u wanna be an architect, is it?

ii. and yes, eng. dwg will be used quite alot.

i. not that i'm aware of. maybe other universities do.

ii. i dont know who earns more at the end of the day. the starting pay is about the same, but i dont know the ceiling of naval architecture.

if u pursue naval architecture, u're not practicing architecture anymore, but a totally different field. part 3 does not apply. u could take ur part 3, but that would mean u still need to practice architecture (not naval), get ur part 3, but eventually u wont be using it if u continue in naval.

iii. smart tunnel and dams are engineers'. architects have no parts in it.

those are town/city/regional planners, road-transport engineers and urban designers' job. architects have no part in it, unless he is a certified or an expert in any of those fields (usually by accumulating 10-15 years experience in those fields, or by taking masters/phd in those fields). architects COULD try and involve themselves in those fields, but they'd be stepping on a lot of toes.

no. that's the very meaning of a twinning/collaborative/partnership programme. what LAM wants is for students to study at one place for a degree/diploma entirely, and assessed internally by that very institution. it means if u start ur 1st year in LKW, it'd better be in LKW until u finish ur degree. the fact that LKW needs curtin's personnels to assess their students means they cant independently award the degree themselves. such are the things that LAM would look out for. it opens to a lot of trouble for the students and practice later on, so LAM just wouldnt bother recognizing them.

basically what LAM wants is for a school to be independent on its own right.

i. if u're talking about job opportunities, then i'd have to say architecture have wider and more job opportunities than naval architecture. extremely.

ii. u would need at least 3.50cgpa and a portfolio. the portfolio would consist of artworks or designworks that u've done in the past. i think i've written the details of a portfolio in the FAQs. go check it out. the requirements' the same for all level. since u've done lukisan kejuruteraan before, it'd be best if u could include that as well.

iii. yes. matrics will start from 1st year.

iv. UTM takes about 30-40 students from matrics, depending on what they maximum number of students for that year. it is 50% of the total student intake for a year, where the other 50% would be from STPM. the max number have been reduced beginning 2007 from 100 students per year to about 60-70 students only. this is to make room for more diploma based students to join UTM at 2nd year (which should be about 40 of them).

as i've said before, UTM favors diploma students, especially from polytechnics. if u think u can score matrics and have a good chance of going through, by all means, do it. u'll save 2-3 years at least. but if u think u cant or u dont wanna strain urself competing at matrics level, then poly is the way to go. do note that other universities do not have a large provision for diploma students.

v. after i finish my phd, i'd be in the degree school in skudai.

1st, i dont really know how IIUM conducts their foundation-to-degree selection, so i cant give my opinion in that. however, answering ur question, i'm not sure if UiTM accepts IIUM's foundation programme for degree intake. this is bcoz the general policy in IPT is that they dont recognize other university/college's foundation programmes. so u need to check this out.

but u still could apply their diploma programmes (bcoz they require SPM, not STPM). UiTM has two intakes per year. check out the december/january intake. there's nothing u can do for the july intake as the deadline's way passed already.

err... i've mentioned before: to take more diploma students.

UTM architecture degree have a maximum of 100 students per year (based on staff:student ratio). for the 2007 batch, they took 60 1st year students. so when they go into 2nd year, the school could take about 25 diploma students into that batch, totalling to 85 students. then in 3rd year, UTM will take another 15 students from UTM KL into that batch.

this move is made in the belief that architecture benefits from variety. in the future there will be more provisions for international students, perhaps up to 15%. but currently there are about 1-2 international students per batch.