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 ICAP, traded price higher than NAV

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HJebat
post Oct 28 2014, 10:02 PM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Oct 8 2014, 12:44 PM)
Do not agree.

You are giving him far too much credit.

Last December, market consolidated a lot.

No discounts then?

What did he do?

He did nothing and sat on the cash and for this fund, I dare say that he will continue to sit on cash.
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TTB is an experienced stock picker but I’m not overly crazy about that.

I personally like ICAP.

I am not too worried over TTB’s stance for ICAP for the moment. Let's see how it goes in a few years time.

HJebat
post Nov 16 2014, 09:42 PM

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Well, I get what you are trying to convey but I see it another way. Below are my viewpoints:

1. I think one should judge TTB’s performance as a fund manager based on ICAP’s NAV, not based on what strategy he adopted.

2. At the moment, I’m satisfied with ICAP’s NAV feat & still untroubled with either TTB’s assessment of the market’s valuation or his approach towards cash accumulation.

3. We have a wide range of stock investment options to choose from. I believe each stock has its pros & cons. We just neend some time to study & make sure that the advantages outweight the disadvantages; given personal requirements (depending on objectives, financial situations & risk tolerances). If we deem the good sides surpasses the bad sides, then we invest. If not, then don’t invest.

Different individuals choose to invest for different reasons. Each individual will be able to make a wise decision to invest if the investment fits personal priorities. ICAP fits mine, so I chose to commit. Probably that’s the reason I’m comfortable holding ICAP while you are not…of course that doesn’t mean you’re wrong, just that probably it is unsuitable for you.

HJebat
post Dec 12 2014, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:08 PM)
smile.gif

You are entitled to your own strategies.
Whatever fits you, fits you.
I am not keen to convert or change your mindset.

Just for your information, try read this well written commentary which highlights the poor under performance of ICAP based on NAV.

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kianweiaritcles/61168.jsp

See the table posted and understand the clear underlying facts.
Just sharing the facts.

Ok?

All the best.
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OK & yes, you don’t need to convert or change my mindset.

Appreciate it that you took the trouble to provide insight and opinions about ICAP’s performance. Will keep that in mind.

I’ll hold ICAP for a little longer & monitor its performance. Will let it go when it can’t provide happy returns to me over the long term.

HJebat
post Dec 12 2014, 10:36 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 17 2014, 09:41 AM)
Fund manager performance is always based on benchmark indices.
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Agreed!


QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 17 2014, 09:41 AM)
A fund that gain 10% while benchmark indices went up 50%, the fund is still considered doing poorly, despite it managed to make a profit to their shareholder.
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Can't say I completely agree with you, but not totally disagree too laugh.gif


QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 17 2014, 09:41 AM)
The summarise is very simple.
ICAP was doing very well up until 2010~2011 period.
After that until now, its performance lack severely against KLCI benchmark.
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As a common investor (I am la...maybe you're not), the KLCI benchmark is not relevant to me (absolutely my own opinion only)...for the reason that I'm not going to buy or hold the 30 companies that made up of the index (although theorically it is possible).

I think a more appropriate way to measure a stock performance is by setting a % target (example: gain 12% annually) or direct side-by-side performance comparison against another stock that I hold or intend to buy (example: target is gain 12%, ICAP achieves 10% vs PBBank achieves 15%, so ICAP underperformed PBBank). Due diligence & experience are needed because the nature of business are different...but likewise, the manner is similar if stack up against KLCI benchmark.

Just my logic...could be flawed.
HJebat
post Dec 17 2014, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Dec 12 2014, 11:17 PM)
As fund manager, indices generally is the ultimate benchmark how well the fund manager is performing.
If the manager perform worst than indices, why waste effort and money to invest with the fund manager, isn't it better off with just invest in indices?
(You can buy index nowadays through futures market, index ETF/fund etc).
Mind that fund manager charge annual management fee, it is not a "free" service offered, while buying index, you do not incur any management fee.

You cannot set a target of gain in stock investment, as no one has the ability to predict the stock is gaining or losing this year or next year.

The comparison is just like if one make a gain in investment of 3% pa over the long term, it is considered poor, as one is better off with putting the money in FD which also make 3%.
Why taking more risk while have the same return?

So it is same with fund manager, if fund manager performs worst than indices, one is better off with investing in indices. 
Why spent more money to pay the fund manager, while you have alternative to have better gain without spending any money?

smile.gif
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Which index can I invest to track KLCI?
HJebat
post Dec 17 2014, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Dec 17 2014, 10:37 PM)
FKLI
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Equity derivatives? shocking.gif Not something that I find pleasing to do sweat.gif

Any other options available to track KLCI?

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