Still, i think its the same. Only hardcore fans will enjoy the game. They don't appeal to the popular mass because the game is slow(from spectators point of view). Its not about the tactical situation or game mechanics, its about the intensity of the games. Seriously every game is fun to play but not all fun to watch. Talking about baseball even most Americans find it boring and too slow.

In Korea most guys from the age 10 to 30 watch Starcraft pro scene. Although many of them didn't play the game they watch and talk about it.
See, when a game is good to watch not only hardcore but casual fans will also watch it.
Even wc3 which is more intense than DotA failed in Korea because to them WC3 is slow and boring.

Then better watch ppl play o2jam, their finger work is uber gosu. Or maybe they should watch SC fpvod, some ppl might puke though.
Seriously, who on earth want to watch finger work and the mouse work? If the game is boring in spectators mode, it fails as a spectators sport. Good luck watching pro kill creeps for 5 minutes.

I watch some of Warcraft 3 vod/live games with commentators. I dont see much shift of dominance in it.
Watching wc3 games is like watching ZvZ in Starcraft minus the intensity.
(TP scroll kills wc3 as spectators sport)

????
WC3 was only released 2001-2002
at most its 6 years
8 years? Your friend's confused.
Zerglings claws resembles sickles no?

Well to be fair, pace in WC3 is significantly slower and with the hero system it makes the game more dynamic. Also damage in WC3 is variable and is not fixed like in SC. Keeping your units alive for some factions are very important (Orcs especially) rather than some to delay until stronger units come to play. The shift in game dominance in most replays I see are quite often but sometimes it can be one sided.



On the serious note, I don't think DoTA is significantly marginalized. Its currently not balanced enough to make it competitive.

This post has been edited by sean392: Nov 26 2007, 10:26 PM

Actually it made the game more confusing to the spectators.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch this, its the best, the most entertaining, the most intense e-sports match i have watched this year and its from spectators point of view.

Who deleted my posts???!!!!

type it out again , i wanna hear more epic replies

i did
because it was made out of fail
and because i deleted by zero

was there a forum roll back or something?

obviously, yes.

no i think i just went back to time its not the forum!

oh the posts came back.

Actually, engagements are more frequent in Dota games these days,I think Watch Virtus.Pro replays,especially the 2nd game in the finals of MYM Pride.Loadsa engagements right from the early parts of the game.

And yea,I'd agree with RtP|DEV that SC indeed has amazing spectator value,even to the casual gamer

This post has been edited by ellimist: Nov 29 2007, 09:09 AM

IMO, SC also not that entertaining.(replays) Fun 2 play thou. I watched the replays but i would say its not as exciting as u said that protoss was owning from the start of the game and conquered more of the mineral while terran waited to be slaughter.

Are you serious. That was sure one of the pimpest game ive watched. One of the most brilliant tactical display i saw from a starcraft player. I thought Bisu(the protoss) was going to lose after he lost his 12's and 12's nat expo.

Basically at that time both players main and nat min already/almost depleted. He(Bisu) just lost both his source of income. Everyone thought he was dead meat. Then this genius calmly executed something unthinkable. Knowing that Hwasin's army(mostly tank) were at the 12 he bring his carrier down and kills Hwasin's expo near his base. He then build an island expo. Then He move to Hwasins third expo then killed zillions of goliath with storm, goon and his carrier. Then he destroyed Hwasin's last source of income, finished Hwasins remaining army up north. Hwasin with no army and income, GGed.

That protoss was owning from the start of the game and conquered more of the mineral while terran waited to be slaughter.

What do you mean?
His DT harass? His DT harass only did little damage to Hwasin.

Protoss was owning from the start because he got 3 expo while terran got 2?
Usually in most TvP matchup protoss will expand ahead of his opponent. If a toss didn't harass or out-macro his opponent, he's dead. There's no way toss can win without that advantage. Terran is the strongest 200/200 in starcraft.

Terran waited to be slaughter?
Terran is slow but strong. Siege tanks can create an impenetrable defensive line. Usually terran will wait for tank to reach certain number then he will push slowly while laying mine around the map. That's because siege tank power grow exponentially as their number increase. Another reason is toss will get his goons earlier than tank. So going out early to apply pressure to toss is out of question. Mass tanks(paired with vults or goli) melt protoss army. See its not like he waited to be slaughtered. That is just how ppl play terran in TvP.

Edit: I know its off topic here, but since i'm the one who post the video and said it's an interesting one. I feel the need to defend myself.

This post has been edited by RtP|DEV: Nov 30 2007, 05:39 AM

Haha yea,a lil off topic,but I do agree with you (though I didn't see it in such detail )

Basically I thought the balance was shifted to the toss early on,but then the balance shifted over to the terran as he invaded. I did think he was gonna win,but the carriers were

i just watched the replay it was nice but think i've seen better ones, draco vs (dunno who), also a terran vs protoss match, erm... some jargons there i(and i think most of us here) dont understand, whats a "main and nat min","expo" and "DT"? i think the turning point of the game was the high templars, the psionic storms just obliterated terran's goliath, lol

well u got ur point there. lol. Maybe my style of starcraft aldy outdated. But from what i saw is, protoss went for dark templar which is very deadly for terran to handle. And protoss did a fair dmg to terran by using dark templar while still looking/found another base 2 harvest. While terran focusing on repair/defensive/covering the dmg done. And
blablabla......there goes terran in this game.

I can say that we have different opinions in this game. Thats all protoss owning from the start of the game was just something I exaggerated

This post has been edited by oRoXoRo: Nov 30 2007, 01:18 PM

One thing beautiful about starcraft is the gameplay change every year. The game evolves.
Paradigm shift happens a lot in Starcraft. There's no need for patch to change how we play the game. Instead every year new bonjwa rise to the throne and change how we play starcraft.

Let me quote these 2 forumers on teamliquid.net
I read this comment while browsing a thread on tl.net and they were discussing about WCG 2007 wc3 game.

Forumer A:
"i stopped playing warcraft more than 1 year ago and i just noticed:
the players, the maps, the strats, the hero choices, the creep patterns, everything is exactly like when i quit! blizzard truly abandoned warcraft back in 2005 or whenever the last patch was released."

Forumer B:
"and Boxer goes to the army for 2 months, and when he comes back he says that the gameplay is totally different than before he left.
Starcraft is a living thing.
Warcraft is a video game."

Thats one of the reason starcraft has so much spectator value. Ppl dont like to see the same thing over and over again. Every season (a season is 4 month) they change the map pool for starcraft. Since the first Starleague, professional starcraft games were played in more than 75 maps(rough estimation, too lazy to count myself). So different compared to warcraft3 that uses the same 9 ladder map since yrs ago or DotA that is a map itself.

Malaysian don't realize that spectators are so important to e-sports. Spectators are the one that made e-sports big in Korea. Not the gamers themselves. I bet we had the same number of geek who play video game here as it is in Korea. Look at Liga Malaysia, no ppl come to watch them play. Who want to sponsor them? How to expand the league without sponsors?

Thats why i pity ppl who refuse to play sc because its a 9 yr and 8 month game.

hey hey ..im fan/player of Starcraft man. Just that nobody is playing it now so i cant play. Still miss the good old days. This thread is going to the wrong direction.. oh well :/

P/S Yeah i agree with you on ur opinion about spectators/fans. But during early stage, need supportive players more. And about dota replays whether it is interesting to watch or not I would say it depends on the individual. Malaysian Dota quite boring cause they wont dare to take risk to use some kind of new tactic and they rather stick on with the same old tactic that have more % to win.(even thou they might have the skill to try new tactic but they rather not)

When u watch it live, it's nice. Let it be o2jam,cs,dota,warcraft or fifa. But not replays.

This post has been edited by oRoXoRo: Nov 30 2007, 04:24 PM