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 Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers, So you wanna turn pro? Listen up....

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mayomagic
post Nov 4 2010, 11:11 AM

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Very well said , it should be kept in my mind thumbup.gif
satoshi.mifune
post Nov 7 2010, 08:00 AM

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I think this useful tips could also be applied to other field in dealing with clients, anyway good article thumbup.gif
ruiniacMY
post Dec 24 2010, 12:33 PM

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nice !
jslm18
post Dec 24 2010, 11:53 PM

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Yah, its a learning process, learn from experience. You should give a quotation and ask for deposit, don't start any work yet. In the real world nobody going to pay you what you are worth, unless you are lucky and bump into a nice client. Even after so many years, still can get cheated. After awhile you will start to notice the warning signs even before starting the project, so can reject the client earlier before the problem becomes worse. One of the warning signs is.... they want to buy you lunch/dinner, or they start talking to you like you are part of the team/business partner, or they get shocked or react negatively when you tell them your price, or even before starting the project they start scolding you.... anyway, I just want to say, as a freelancer, one of the keys to success is to select your clients carefully.... stick to positive, happy, successful customers...
zacthra
post Jan 21 2011, 09:05 PM

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awesome post~ thumbs up
FCUK89
post Feb 3 2011, 09:57 AM

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Good stuff. I do agree smile.gif

Thanks so much.
Sai91
post Feb 5 2011, 12:44 AM

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thnks for the info wink.gif
SweetPuff
post Feb 5 2011, 01:59 AM

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Some things that comes to mind:
1. Never, ever give out your source files until you get paid.
2. Have a proper and organized folder for presentation that does not contain your source files. Sometimes you'll have to copy the file to the client's computer and you'll end up forgetting to delete it after presentation. Voila. Free source files that they can forward to 'cheaper' designers to complete the job.

Oh ya. Designers. Have to learn how to convey your ideas better and have good presentation skills. That means, you need to have a confident command of English. Else career advancement would be rather limited and you'll always end up as the FA (Final Artwork) dude. And that's very close to the bottom of a department's hierarchy.
GenericMav
post Feb 12 2011, 09:27 PM

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nice post, thumbs up thumbup.gif

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mr.zukey
post Apr 2 2011, 02:19 AM

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100% agreed...all the opinion makes me thinking hehe...
yellow.hunter
post Apr 10 2011, 10:56 AM

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Appreciate the info thumbup.gif Great one!
fotosintesis
post Apr 12 2011, 02:55 AM

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without doubt...
RedBishop
post Apr 22 2011, 04:34 PM

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sorry, I ain't gonna pay any deposit for a piece of project which you will fail me. What if the designer just show me s*** and told me to f*** myself and what am i suppose to do with the deposit paid to him?
Chuckiekey
post Apr 25 2011, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(infested_ysy @ May 31 2004, 06:02 PM)
Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers
- by Mark W. Lewis

1 "Do this one cheap (or free) and we'll make it up on the next one."
No reputable business person would first give away their work and time or merchandise on the hope of making it up later. Can you imagine what a plumber would say if you said "come in, provide and install the sink for free and next time we'll make it up when we need a sink." You would be laughed at! Also the likelyhood is that if something important came along, they wouldn't use you.

2 "We never pay a cent until we see the final product."
This is a croc, unless the person is leaving the door open to cheat you out of your pay. Virtually every profession requres a deposit or incremental payment during anything but the smallest project. Once you have a working relationship, you may work out another arrangement with a client. But a new client should not ask you to go beyond an initial meeting and, perhaps some preliminary sketches without pay on the job!

3 "Do this for us and you'll get great exposure! The jobs will just pour in!"
Baloney. Tell a plumber "Install this sink and my friend will see and you'll get lots of business!" Our plumber friend would say "You mean even if I do a good job I have to give my work away to get noticed? Then it isn't worth the notice." Also the guy would likely brag to everyone he knows about how this would normally cost (X) dollars, but brilliant businessman that he is he got if for free! If anyone calls, they'll expect the same or better deal.

4 On looking at sketches or concepts: "Well, we aren't sure if we want to use you yet, but leave your material here so I can talk to my partner/investor/wife/clergy."You can be sure that 15 minutes after you leave he will be on the phone to other designers, now with concepts in hand, asking for price quotes. When you call back you will be informed that your prices were too high and Joe Blow Design/Illustration will be doing the job. Why shouldn't they be cheaper? You just gave them hours of free consulting work! Until you have a deal, LEAVE NOTHING CREATIVE at the clients office.

5 "Well, the job isn't CANCELLED, just delayed. Keep the account open and we'll continue in a month or two."
Ummm, probably not. If something is hot, then not, it could be dead. It would be a mistake to *not* bill for work performed at this point and then let the chips fall where they may! Call in two months and someone else may be in that job. And guess what? They don't know you at all.....

6 "Contract? We don't need no stinking contact! Aren't we friends?"Yes, we are, until something goes wrong or is misunderstood, then you are the jerk in the suit and I am that idiot designer, then the contract is essential. That is, unless one doesn't care about being paid. Any reputable business uses paperwork to define relationships and you should too.

7 "Send me a bill after the work goes to press."
Why wait for an irrelevant deadline to send an invoice? You stand behind your work, right? You are honest, right? Why would you feel bound to this deadline? Once you deliver the work and it is accepted, BILL IT. This point may just be a delaying tactic so the job goes through the printer prior to any question of your being paid. If the guy waits for the job to be printed, and you do changes as necessary, then he can stiff you and not take a chance that he'll have to pay someone else for changes.

8 "The last guy did it for XXX dollars."
That is irrelevant. If the last guy was so good they wouldn't be talking to you, now would they? And what that guy charged means nothing to you, really. People who charge too little for their time go out of business (or self-destruct financially, or change occupations) and then someone else has to step in. Set a fair price and stick to it.

9 "Our budget is XXX dollars, firm."
Amazing, isn't it? This guy goes out to buy a car, and what, knows exactly what he is going to spend before even looking or researching? Not likely. A certain amount of work costs a certain amount of money. If they have less money (and you *can*) do less work and still take the job. But make sure they understand that you are doing less work if you take less money that you originally estimated. Give fewer comps, simplify, let them go elsewhere for services (like films) etc.

10 "We are having financial problems. Give us the work, we'll make some money and we'll pay you. Simple."
Yeah, except when the money comes, you can expect that you will be pretty low on the list to be paid. If someone reaches the point where they admit that the company is in trouble, then they are probably much worse off than they are admitting to. Even then, are you a bank? Are you qualified to check out their financials? If the company is strapped to the point where credit is a problem through credit agencies, banks etc. what business would you have extending credit to them. You have exactly ZERO pull once they have the work. Noble intentions or not, this is probably a losing bet. But if you are going to roll the dice, AT LEAST you should be getting additional money for waiting. The bank gets interest and so should you. That is probably why the person is approaching you; to get six months worth of free interest instead of paying bank rates for credit and then paying you with that money. Don't give away money.
Now, this list wasn't meant to make anyone crazy or paranoid, but is designed to inject some reality into the fantasy.

You are GOING to be dealing with people who are unlike yourself. Their motivations are their own and their attitudes are probably different than yours. There are going to be demands, problems, issues and all the hassles that go with practically ANY work/job/money situation. Too many times I see the sad example of someone walking in to a situation with noble intentions and then getting royally screwed, because what they see as an opportunity and a labor of love, the other party sees as something else entirely, not at all romantic or idealized, but raw and simple.

How can you deal with this stuff and still do good creative work? Good question. THIS is why an education is important. You learn, out of the line of fire, how to deal with the art at it's own level and also how to deal with the crap that surrounds it. You may have tough teachers and think that it can't be worse, but wait until a business person has a hundred grand riding on your art! Then you will know what "demanding" means. You will then thank all those tough teachers for building up the calluses that enable you to enjoy the job rather than just feeling like it is all a big waste of time!

In the end, working commercially, being a terrific artist is about 25% of the task. If that is the only part of the task that you are interested in, do yourself a favor. Don't turn "pro."
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Normally company's are smart, they have very little details written, less prove, so at the end, they can't ask for many things without paying them, and then tries to scare u with a lawsuit. Before you start, you need to make sure everything is well defined, it's a real world out there. I dealt with many customers who does this, I mean, got into trouble

H4XF4XTOR
post May 9 2011, 08:15 PM

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well nowadays... SOFTCOPY..
never give it to client even when they asked for it...
Elgore
post May 10 2011, 12:19 PM

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i've just been culture schooled
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amores
post May 20 2011, 06:16 AM

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I agreed most on this one:
4 On looking at sketches or concepts: "Well, we aren't sure if we want to use you yet, but leave your material here so I can talk to my partner/investor/wife/clergy."You can be sure that 15 minutes after you leave he will be on the phone to other designers, now with concepts in hand, asking for price quotes. When you call back you will be informed that your prices were too high and Joe Blow Design/Illustration will be doing the job. Why shouldn't they be cheaper? You just gave them hours of free consulting work! Until you have a deal, LEAVE NOTHING CREATIVE at the clients office.

quite a real life situation and many didn't notice the risk before.
jeffler
post Jun 23 2011, 11:50 AM

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thank you so much for your guidance =)
mysammi
post Jun 29 2011, 02:50 AM

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Very informative. Thanks for the guidance.
Dnmak
post Aug 16 2011, 03:16 PM

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I am frightened now XD I wanna ask, since the first post 6 years back and now, can anyone tell me the differences or is it still the same?

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