Agreed. Everything is about risk and return. At least CHGS has LKY who eventually return the growers' money + dividend. How about the boss behind this scheme ? If anything is wrong (touch wood), will he/she be able to do what LKY did ?

I can see he owns 2 KLSE listed companies. How is the 2 companies' performance in terms of profit ? And also their current share price ? You mentioned dividends. How's the dividends from the 2 listed companies ? I hope their dividend is good. Because he will be managing the scheme and pay dividends to the investors. His track records of companies currently under his management must give confidence to potential investors. Hope you can convince investors here by sharing your boss' achievement in managing his companies

of course there are risks. that is why we do not dare to guarantee a fixed return, because things change.

fertilizer prices generally follow CPO prices. they go up when CPO prices go up, and down when CPO prices go down.

FFB prices are fixed, and are published daily. I dont know how you got that impression that of selling above industry price.

expected FFB? well, this question also ties into your question about peat. Peat costs a bit more to develop, but consequently, have a higher yield peer hectare too. You can plant about 128 trees per hectare on mineral soil, but about 155on peat. The company is looking to get about 24 mt/hectare, and that is what the projections are based on.

There has been many development in peat in the past few years. It's all about water management and compaction when it comes to peat. There are both pros and cons in both mineral soil and peat. Mineral is also very hilly and uneven, making harvesting harder. Peat is flat.

See some articles about peat :
http://www.theborneopost.com/2013/09/08/ne...e-for-oil-palm/
http://www.theborneopost.com/2013/09/08/pe...asteland-lulie/
http://www.theborneopost.com/2013/09/08/pr...-critics-wrong/

expected cost? in general, a decent scaled plantation companies breaks even at about RM 1400 to RM 1500. The company expects to fall within that range too, and will of course strive to get lower.

re: growing the company / cost per acre/hectare, i think that you are comparing apples to oranges. our business model is structured differently, and our aims are different too. investing in IOI / KLK will not give you higher dividends, and again, there is no guarantee that the share prices will go up.

In our case, after 20 years, the land of the plantation will be sold. Do you not think that land prices will appreciate in 20 years?

as for the cost per acre/hectare - that again is a simplistic argument. At the end of the day, for both companies, you do not own the land. You will just profit form the company using the land. in fact, we even go one step further and are more than happy to invite investors to visit our plantations. can you visit IOI / KLK plantations?

also, our "price per acre", to use your metrics, is "inflated" largely because of how our product is structured.

This post has been edited by suewong85: Dec 23 2013, 09:59 AM

well, the boss is a very low profile individual. as for his track record, feel free to research into Sunrise Berhad, during the period when he and his business partner Dato' Tong bought over the company.

Feeling strange, why in your website listed down 2 other public listed companies' name (Widetech and Ablegroup) instead of Sunrise ? While you only mention Sunrise and not other 2 listed companies here ? You should update your website to include Sunrise in your boss' profile. I have never heard of Widetech and Ablegroup. But Sunrise is a well known name

Why is your boss high profile in 2 low profile listed companies but low profile in high profile Sunrise ?

If I were to invest in this scheme, I will definitely look into how are the performance of the companies under your boss' management. Maybe I will research a bit when I have time. If you can give a summary here, then it will be good

would like to check with your all, isnt the refund = 90% + 12% (goodwill package)? but the cheque only for 90% refund, where is the 12% goodwill?, will it be a seperate cheque?, where can we check with? CHGS or CIMB Truestee?. Thanks.

Is the goodwill of 12% (or 11%+) lump in the 1 cheque of the 90% refund or a seperate cheque? thanks.

is 11.59% for goodwill and get separate cheque.

TQVM... have to check the letter box again.

Not necessary, fertilizer is not only used for palm oil, but used for general crops, maybe less thn 10% is used for all palm oil plantations. The cost of fertilizer depends on price of rock phosphate (mined), MOP & urea (manufactured from natural gas). There is zero relation of fertilizer to palm oil ffb prices.

Of course, you are saying that your scheme is better than listed oil palm plantations, if all of you share the same COST of production and SAME selling price, how can your projected earning be more than listed plantations. Oh and most listed plantations run their own palm oil mill, but you have to sell yous to an independent mill (which will take a cut), wouldn't your margin be much lesser?

Nope the best soil to plant palm oil is alluvial soil (found in east sabah, south kalimantan and south sumatra) , peat soil is generally frown upon to plant palm oil. You get less yield per hectare, less OER per hectare so you will earn less because your cost per ton is higher. Also peat soil plantation are mostly not eligible for RPSO, and hence your fruit cannot demand a premium.

You are expecting 24ton per ha, but that is generally not able to be achieved on peat soil, look at Sarawak plantation & SOP, their yield per ha is generally less than 20 t/ha. If you look at plantation is south Sumatra & Kalimantan and also alluvial soil is perak area, you can generally achieve 23 to 25 t/ha.

Oh, you have not answered what is your expected OER rate?

Why only focus on dividends, yes the land value will go up in 20 years. But if you invest in listed plantation, the AMOUNT of land per SHARE also goes up, TOGETHER with the value of the land. Which one is a better growth story?

Investing in this share farming scheme does not give your ownership rights, you don't even OWN the land & the trees on your plot. Investing in a listed company you have rights and protection as shareholder. Here you only have promises.

So now you AGREE that you are selling over priced land to investor. Plantation land (cleared & planted) in Miri Sarawak generally goes for 30k-35k per hectare. Yet you are selling to investor at 8k per 1/4 acre or 32k per acre or 79k per hectare. Wow at this prices, why bother to buy at Sarawak? You can get same fully planted matured palm oil at Perak alluvial soil....

ARe you sure in the end your dividends are not robbing perter to pay paul with the massive overpricing?

Case of


?

Price per acre probably shews heavy upfront pricing since theres NO land ownership.

For Rm32k per acre, you could buy land in Sabah, and plant.

They are not even selling overpriced land since there is NO ownership.

They are selling overpriced RIGHTS.

Maybe IF the land rockets up in price, they will do the same as CHGS.

Tell the investors to terminate their RIGHTS and take a "goodwill"

But before they reap the money from selling the overpriced rights to the investors...

Yeah and Sabah palm oil is known to have very good yields due to favorable soil conditions... than is Sarawak.

EXACTLY!

Maybe they invest the monies in REITs to get 8% yield first????????

EXACTLY!

Maybe they invest the monies in REITs to get 8% yield first????????

I have a question for these sort of schemes.

IF them returns are SOOOOOO GOOOOOODing, why do you
wanna SHARE THE CAKE????????????????

If it is sooooooooooo good, why dont the seller take loan and wallap all the shares.

If it is sooooooooooo good, why don't big financial companies or other big plantation come jump into bandwagon?

In before they say wanna share the cake cause do charity...

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 11 2013, 10:52 AM

If sooooo GOODINg, they should have no problems securing loans........

get them planted, yields up and sell to listed plantations at a PREMIUM.

Or better, list the company and leverage on the earnings!

cheque received, thankful to LKY.