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 Bond kaki lai, DRB HICOM bond coming

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BWassup
post Feb 18 2024, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(contestchris @ Feb 14 2024, 12:20 AM)
There is NO WAY for you to buy at 93.50 at the moment. FSM is not selling at that price.

You can however sell at 92.00. Up to RM50k nominal.

At the moment, FSM is only buying at 92.00 and that's why I say, there is some level of manipulation here.
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This post has been edited by BWassup: Feb 18 2024, 10:07 PM
BWassup
post Feb 18 2024, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(BWassup @ Feb 18 2024, 08:11 PM)


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This post has been edited by BWassup: Feb 18 2024, 10:09 PM
BWassup
post Mar 3 2024, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 2 2024, 11:09 PM)
Bank Islam Vice President Wealth guy Ivan said he thinks call back unlikely.
never mind lah as long as next coupon 9% can be paid.
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If that does happen, wouldn't that lead to a cross-default of their banking facilities? They just announced buying more land in Tropicana for RM224m.

They will not be able to pay any dividends as well.

hmm.gif
BWassup
post Mar 3 2024, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(contestchris @ Mar 3 2024, 03:06 PM)
Yes it's part of the feature but it doesn't inspire confidence in the credit capacity of the company, who in their right mind will pay 9% coupon on a perp when they can get long term credit from banks at 6%?

So much bullshit from some people.

Like I said, I spoke with the guys doing the rating of Trooicana sukuk at MARC, they confirmed that not redeeming the bond at the call date is going to be viewed as credit negative.

It's specifically the step up nature of the perp that makes it credit negative to not exercise the redemption.
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What about Tropicana issuing another sukuk to refinance the one callable in September 2024? If there is demand, wouldn't they be able to do that at below 9% (+ 1% each subsequent year it is not called) on secured basis?

On the possibility of Tropicana deferring future expected distributions, are they allowed to defer them indefinitely, in which case, it could become a rolling snowball which may never be paid? Weird. Their credit standing would plummet.

This post has been edited by BWassup: Mar 3 2024, 05:59 PM
BWassup
post Mar 4 2024, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 4 2024, 12:41 AM)
i hope Tropicana would call it back.their bank loan is not cheap. not 6% pay us 9% might still be easier

ours perpetual.no call back  still no default
unlike the last one in Oct mati mati also must go get money.Total RM 2 billions lining up.. can  Tropicana spare 248M for us?

coupons would still be paid lah methinks..
Ini first tranche if koyak imagine  what the many more tranches behind would react.
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I trust they will call back or refinance. The ramifications on all their credit facilities and biz would be quite damaging otherwise. And they have other sukuk from 2025 onwards where 1st call is due. It would just compound matters and spike their sukuk coupon rates.
BWassup
post Mar 6 2024, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 6 2024, 01:11 AM)
No call back also nice get 9%
later on when Tropicana got more cash then only call back boleh?
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I also like higher coupon, provided they pay.

Unfortunately, it seems that under the terms, if they don't pay the coupons, they will just accumulate, and we cannot do anything about it. That would not be a good situation.




BWassup
post Mar 6 2024, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Mar 6 2024, 03:08 PM)
so confirm this bond has cumulative deferral feature? if yes, then i would say there is lesser worry. As long as the firm is a going concern, then just let the interest accumulate...  smile.gif
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From the Terms (can fall asleep reading lol):

(h) Optional Deferral of
Distribution

: The Issuer, at its sole discretion, provided that no
Compulsory Periodic Distribution Payment Event
has occurred, may opt to defer payment (in whole
or in part) of the Expected Periodic Distribution
Amount which is otherwise scheduled to be paid on
a Periodic Distribution Date, to the next Periodic
Distribution Date by giving an optional deferral
notice in writing ("Optional Deferral Notice")
signed by the Issuer provided that such notice shall
be given no earlier than fifteen (15) business days
nor less than five (5) business days prior to the
relevant Periodic Distribution Date, to the Facility
Agent and the Sukuk Trustee (for and on behalf of
the Sukukholders).

The Issuer may at its sole discretion, elect to further
defer any outstanding Arrears of Deferred Periodic
Distribution by complying with the foregoing notice
requirement. The Issuer is not subject to any limit
as to the number of times the Expected Periodic
Distribution Amount and the Arrears of Deferred
Periodic Distribution can be deferred except that the
provisions on the Dividend and Capital Stopper (as
defined in the section entitled Other terms and
conditions – Dividend and Capital Stopper) shall be
complied with until all outstanding Arrears of
Deferred Periodic Distribution have been paid in
full.

For this purpose, each Optional Deferral Notice
shall be accompanied by a certificate signed by a
director and the company secretary OR a director
and an authorised signatory OR two authorised
signatories, as the case may be, of the Issuer,
confirming that no Compulsory Periodic Distribution
Payment Event has occurred. Any such certificate
shall be conclusive evidence that no Compulsory
Periodic Distribution Payment Event has occurred
and the Facility Agent and the Sukuk Trustee shall
be entitled to rely without any obligation to verify the
same and without liability to any Sukukholder or any
other person on any such Optional Deferral Notice
or any certificate as aforementioned. Each Optional
Deferral Notice shall be conclusive and binding on
the Sukukholders.

Payment of the Arrears of Deferred Periodic
Distribution

The Issuer may satisfy any Arrears of Deferred
Periodic Distribution (in whole or in part) at any time
calculated up to the date of payment of such
Arrears of Deferred Periodic Distribution by giving
notice of such election to the Facility Agent and the
Sukuk Trustee (for and on behalf of the
Sukukholders) not less than five (5) business days
(or such shorter period agreed by the Facility Agent
and the Sukuk Trustee) prior to the relevant
payment date specified in such notice (which notice
is irrevocable and shall oblige the Issuer to pay the
relevant Arrears of Deferred Periodic Distribution
on the payment date specified in such notice).

In any event the Issuer shall satisfy any outstanding
Arrears of Deferred Periodic Distribution (in whole
but not in part) on the earliest of:

(a) the date of redemption of the Sukuk
Musharakah pursuant to any Redemption
Event;
(b) within fifteen (15) days after the occurrence of
a breach of the Dividend and Capital Stopper;
and
© the date such amounts becomes due and
payable under an Enforcement Event.

Any partial payment of outstanding Arrears of
Deferred Periodic Distribution by the Issuer shall be
shared by the Sukukholders on a pro-rata basis.

Any election made by the Issuer to defer the
payment of any Expected Periodic Distribution
Amount or any Arrears of Deferred Periodic
Distribution in accordance with the terms set out in
this paragraph shall not constitute a dissolution
event or an Enforcement Event for any purpose.

BWassup
post Mar 6 2024, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 6 2024, 06:00 PM)
that long clause really need you guys to read and help explain

Correct me if I am wrong
1)Tropicana no money can defer  paying  the dividends
2)can defer paying  us dividend again and again repeatedly?

So if Tropicana is allowed by that clause to do above,
habislah kita, no call back and no dividend!

Unless it says  coupon deferrements accumulated later
must pay back all dividends owed to us...

adakah like that?
, later on still must pay back our accumulated deferred dividends?
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Looks like it.

Perpetual Bonds are classified as Equity in the accounts. No right of call back, just like ordinary shareholders. More like preference shareholders since there is a fixed coupon.

The high coupon rate looks nice. On paper. However, we have no right to the distribution except when a compulsory distribution event has occurred.

Compulsory Periodic
Distribution Payment
Event:

If, during the six (6) month period ending on the day
before the relevant scheduled Periodic Distribution
Date, either one of the following or both, as the case
may be, shall have occurred:

(a) a dividend, distribution or other payment has
been declared or paid by the Issuer in respect
of any of the Issuer's Junior Obligations or
Parity Obligations (except on a pro-rata basis
with the Sukuk Musharakah); or

(b) the Issuer's Junior Obligations or Parity
Obligations (except on a pro-rata basis with
the Sukuk Musharakah) have been
purchased, redeemed, reduced, cancelled,
bought-back or acquired by the Issuer,

a Compulsory Periodic Distribution Payment Event
shall have occurred.

In fact, Tropicana got money also doesn't have to pay a distribution, they have sole discretion. They can just keep the money for their business or whatever if they choose to. That's why I said if they do that, our debt will snowball. They don't have to pay us anything, just keep owing us at 15% rate. The only thing we have is our security. Jialat isn't it?? ohmy.gif

I believe all perpetual sukuk are similarly structured (?).

So far Tropicana has been paying the coupon without fail, no reason to suspect they will suddenly stop paying.

But if it is indeed withheld, red lights and alarm bells will be flashing and ringing all over the place.

Think it is better that there is a call. No point looking forward to 9+% if we can't collect it. There should be a starting and ending point for any investment, or if not, a market for exit. For corporate sukuk, there is no liquid secondary market for an exit.

This post has been edited by BWassup: Mar 6 2024, 07:58 PM
BWassup
post Mar 14 2024, 08:16 AM

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[[ KUALA LUMPUR (March 13): Tropicana Corp Bhd and Pantai Kok Resort Development Bhd have mutually agreed to terminate a 44.61-acre land development at Padang Mat Sirat, Langkawi.

Tropicana was the developer to undertake the joint development agreement (JDA) on the Pantai Kok land, according to its filing to Bursa Malaysia on Wednesday.

“In consideration of the current market conditions and given the development on the Pantai Kok land has yet to commence, the parties have mutually agreed to terminate the Pantai Kok JDA,” it said.


Tropicana said the termination enables the group to save on such development costs associated with the Pantai Kok land, which will allow the group to allocate financial resources more efficiently towards the other existing businesses.

It noted that the termination is not expected to have any material impact on the group’s earnings for FY2024.

To recap, Tropicana inked the JDA with Pantai Kok Resort in April 2019 to develop 44.61 acres of land at Padang Mat Sirat, Langkawi across 15 years, with an estimated gross development value (GDV) of RM3.02 billion.

Shares in Tropicana closed at RM1.26 on Tuesday, valuing the group at RM2.9 billion.]]


Conserve resources to pay bondholders, hopefully.


BWassup
post Mar 14 2024, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 14 2024, 08:50 AM)
Yeah now they ma have enuff money to call back.....

but i hope Tropicana temporarily hold on call back,
clear its last bank loan at the exhorbitant interest of 12% first
better pay us 9% coupon..
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Can also, provided they can provide some solid evidence for a payback date, based on confirmed property sale, or whatever.

Why they need to pay so high rate for bank loan? It's like a default rate of BLR + 5 % shocking.gif
BWassup
post Mar 14 2024, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 14 2024, 09:59 PM)
When Tropicana  was  very short of cash desperately needed  to avoid a  Bond Default ( the 4th Bond  matured in Oct 23) with poor rating
and so many more bonds queing behind that, got banks wanna lend you also happy liao... what is 12% man.

Ask joeblow who was holding that  Bond, received few letters  worried might not even get his capital back,,

1 year before that my RM already knew the  problem Tropicana was facing, high debts, low cash, rating down, outlook negative etc...we were all  told to sell (that time RM99).
All sold  their bonds except me. I hang on, and the price kept going down ., Reaching RM96 i wanted to buy more....but the big boss managed to scare me off.
still i bought it quitely after that when prices went down further to  RM93.50.

high risk must have high return...
your normal bank loan interest 6% is for normal risk only.
i wont buy that  lelong Rm93.50 if return not 17+%.
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I see. Thanks for the background info on Tropicana's bond history.

So the bond that matured in Oct 23 was not a perpetual, that's why mati-mati also must repay?


BWassup
post Mar 17 2024, 06:36 PM

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Tropicana 7% sukuk has been actively traded since 29 January, and the yield has dropped sharply:


Trade Date Input Time Amount Price Yield (%) Value Date
08-Mar-2024 04:49:38 PM 0.25 98.26 10.39 12-Mar-2024
08-Mar-2024 09:11:36 AM 0.25 98.25 10.39 11-Mar-2024
07-Mar-2024 03:58:50 PM 0.25 99.30 8.34 11-Mar-2024
07-Mar-2024 03:57:12 PM 0.25 99.25 8.45 11-Mar-2024
06-Mar-2024 09:09:09 AM 0.25 98.22 10.38 07-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:21:14 AM 0.45 99.82 7.32 06-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:20:47 AM 1 99.82 7.32 06-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:15:51 AM 0.5 99.46 8.00 06-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:14:55 AM 0.5 98.06 10.67 06-Mar-2024
27-Feb-2024 12:27:30 PM 0.5 98.71 9.35 29-Feb-2024
27-Feb-2024 12:26:59 PM 0.5 98.66 9.45 29-Feb-2024
22-Feb-2024 09:04:18 AM 0.3 97.85 10.84 23-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 03:34:16 PM 0.25 98.00 10.64 23-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 03:31:02 PM 0.25 96.00 14.29 23-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 09:20:28 AM 0.25 98.11 10.35 22-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 09:19:51 AM 0.25 98.11 10.35 22-Feb-2024
06-Feb-2024 09:09:58 AM 0.25 97.85 10.57 07-Feb-2024
05-Feb-2024 09:19:10 AM 0.25 97.84 10.57 06-Feb-2024
02-Feb-2024 09:26:41 AM 0.3 97.96 10.35 05-Feb-2024
29-Jan-2024 04:24:59 PM 0.25 91.00 22.68 31-Jan-2024


https://www.bixmalaysia.com/security-info-p...nformation-tab6

Pleasant surprise. thumbsup.gif Chances of a call in September increased significantly?

This post has been edited by BWassup: Mar 17 2024, 06:42 PM
BWassup
post Mar 20 2024, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(BWassup @ Mar 17 2024, 06:36 PM)
Tropicana 7% sukuk has been actively traded since 29 January, and the yield has dropped sharply:
Trade Date Input Time Amount Price Yield (%) Value Date
08-Mar-2024 04:49:38 PM 0.25 98.26 10.39 12-Mar-2024
08-Mar-2024 09:11:36 AM 0.25 98.25 10.39 11-Mar-2024
07-Mar-2024 03:58:50 PM 0.25 99.30 8.34    11-Mar-2024
07-Mar-2024 03:57:12 PM 0.25 99.25 8.45  11-Mar-2024
06-Mar-2024 09:09:09 AM 0.25 98.22 10.38 07-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:21:14 AM 0.45 99.82 7.32  06-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:20:47 AM 1 99.82 7.32  06-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:15:51 AM 0.5 99.46 8.00        06-Mar-2024
05-Mar-2024 09:14:55 AM 0.5 98.06 10.67 06-Mar-2024
27-Feb-2024 12:27:30 PM 0.5 98.71 9.35  29-Feb-2024
27-Feb-2024 12:26:59 PM 0.5 98.66 9.45  29-Feb-2024
22-Feb-2024 09:04:18 AM 0.3 97.85 10.84 23-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 03:34:16 PM 0.25 98.00 10.64 23-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 03:31:02 PM 0.25 96.00 14.29 23-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 09:20:28 AM 0.25 98.11 10.35 22-Feb-2024
21-Feb-2024 09:19:51 AM 0.25 98.11 10.35 22-Feb-2024
06-Feb-2024 09:09:58 AM 0.25 97.85 10.57 07-Feb-2024
05-Feb-2024 09:19:10 AM 0.25 97.84 10.57 06-Feb-2024
02-Feb-2024 09:26:41 AM 0.3 97.96 10.35 05-Feb-2024
29-Jan-2024 04:24:59 PM 0.25 91.00 22.68 31-Jan-2024
https://www.bixmalaysia.com/security-info-p...nformation-tab6

Pleasant surprise. thumbsup.gif  Chances of a call in September increased significantly?
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Latest trade this morning:

20-Mar-2024 09:04:06 AM 0.25 100.08 6.84 21-Mar-2024

Above par biggrin.gif
BWassup
post Mar 20 2024, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Mar 20 2024, 04:55 PM)
have to read the transaction list properly... there are 2 transactions in the morning... just minutes apart... 

suspect a intermediary basically had a client standby to offload the bond from another client.
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Noted. But the buy at 9.68% not too bad either.

In any case someone was willing to pay 100.08

This post has been edited by BWassup: Mar 20 2024, 05:02 PM
BWassup
post Mar 21 2024, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 21 2024, 06:19 PM)
confirmation received. got some more i would sapu again
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The person in your chat seems certain that Tropicana will redeem the bond on 25 September. Can ask who is he?

Today Swiss surprised with a rate cut, UK looks likely as well. Think Fed could cut in June as well. How about Malaysia? Makes sense for Tropicana to redeem/refinance in this environment.

Bond Express indicative asking price upped to 96.00

This post has been edited by BWassup: Mar 21 2024, 06:57 PM
BWassup
post Mar 26 2024, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 26 2024, 09:13 PM)
technical hiccup only
Rm60k x7% x182/365

did you  withdraw  from FSM cash Account to bank?
My last withdrawal money almost instantly received

This time  need wait 1 day??
soemthing is wrong again
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I got the money instantly in my bank account.
BWassup
post Apr 28 2024, 11:28 AM

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Tropicana 7% Bond

Trade Date Amount Price Yield
23-Apr-2024 0.7 100.23 6.42
BWassup
post Apr 29 2024, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Apr 28 2024, 09:12 PM)
Yes price slowly going up,
last time on offer RM93.50 and RM96.00
people takut to buy also.

......
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Tropicana share price also surged this week. I'm not sure what announcements have been made, but I guess the bond price is moving in tandem. thumbsup.gif
BWassup
post Sep 4 2024, 09:50 AM

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Tropicana Bond 1st call is on 25 September.

I presume they will be redeeming the bonds, unless anyone here has information otherwise?
BWassup
post Sep 5 2024, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 5 2024, 07:52 AM)
Yeah 90% will redeem...
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I reckon 95% biggrin.gif . They have announced several large property and land sales in the past few months, including Tropicana Mall. Should have the funds in place, it's not a very big issue.

Any good corporate bonds to switch to, but not the perpetual ones if it is Malaysian bonds? Just don't trust the local issuers so much e.g. Cypark delayed 2x already! Plus illiquid market, can't get out easily.

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