above is a muddled post of irrelevant FX spreads uncertainty and bond illiquidity.

Investment grade Bond behaves like Forex, betul kah bro?

Still i dont see how that can substantiate your allegation bonds are unregulated can simply charge extra RM5 for profit


Very illiquid i also find it hard to believe.
You got to have bonds to know the illiquidity
or rather liquidity. how can you say very illiquid if i get my money at T+7?

The spread of course is the fee the bank earns la.
somebody has to pay the fee for sure.

The question is who.

My RM said it is the buyer and not me the seller!

but you say i will never know unless i know at what price bank sell it out
meaning what? Are you saying bank must buy and sell at same price only can say my RM is correct?

If not , what is the use of finding out at what price the bank sell?
That is quite a ridiculous suggestion expecting to see bank buy sell at same price.

I expect the bank to sell at higher price.
make some money from buyer tak boleh?

the spread example there RM2.00 actually i simply put only
i think is quite high already yet you are saying it is much more higher
profit margin no limit?

Quite unbelievable, surely there must be some limit i think.

How often clients shop around?
i am surprised you dont know nowadays people are no longer dumb
see FD thread for example, you can see what.
so easy with internet now to connect and ask

You think by right i should to buy bonds at PAR RM100 only?
like in Singapore as brother hksgmy proudly announced?
Dream on bro, wake up to reality!
this is maresia

i doubt you have bought any bonds la telling me that.

We just have to adjust ourselves to fit in la bro
Not hoping for maresia adjust to fit us
or we would miss many opportunities
trying in vain to get even.

See how much confusion @Wedchar2912 has caused to the uninitiated.....

people are now thinking Bond world is a wild wild west
unregulated
no rules
can be manipulated....

Take it from me Bank bond is regulated
prices can be manipulated is an exaggeration

Dont listen to people who dont even have bonds
Talk from reading and hearsay only.

prices is clearly stated for you to buy or sell

Ask anyone who has bought bonds before
No such thing must see transaction price
add in fees etc
then try to calculate how much return is there

It is all there ready for you to see.

no hanky panky lah!





Attached thumbnail(s)

Back to the topic, so this bond worth buying? I think EV still takes several years to take shape plus the first Call is after 5 years should they execute. This company quite heavily vested in car industry and going by the Tesla selling model might impact pricing. Risk really high? I just don't like the 5 years holding period.

2% "sales charge". Anyway I got book 1 lot, so let's see if I get it.

The FSM one I don't know how it works. Seems like you need to deposit the money first, but I don't know if it is a sure thing you will get. I calculated over 5 years the nett fee is less than 2%.

Yes, you are correct re the bonds being regulated, and that it’s actually supposed to be a safer class of investments compared to shares.

Here in Singapore, bonds on the secondary market are subject to a bid offer to purchase by potential buyers. However, depending on your bank, when the bank buys the bond that you’re trying to sell, they obviously won’t tell you the bid offer by a prospective buyer, but instead, offer you their (the bank’s) own buying price, which could be a few cents lower than the buyer’s offer.

The bank then sells it to the buyer at a price which is a few cents higher than the buyer’s bid price, and if the buyer is willing to buy, the bank earns both ways. This is what I meant by a spread.

Sorry for any confusion.

Like you, I’ve never sold any of my bonds. Not even when the capital appreciates. The way I invest in bonds is to think of them as hassle free property proxies that I don’t have to pay property tax, cukai pintu, agent fees, council tax etc on. Just buy, and collect ‘rental’ every 6 months.

This post has been edited by hksgmy: Jul 31 2023, 01:55 AM

lol. I thought I was doing you a favor by sharing proper knowledge. Unfortunately, not only is it not appreciated, I sense some hostility, which I do not understand.
So, no point wasting my effort and in the same time, get your agitated for no reason. I do not simply talk nonsense when it comes to financial products, as all my old posts can clearly indicate.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing bro. But you can ignore everything I mentioned in this tread and sure, you are very right in saying the 102 price is due to a FEE by the bank.

(btw, FX is supposed to be quite simple, and yet there are so many who thinks the price on google are the tradable prices. Just an example of what normal people knows.
and regulation doesn't mean prices are regulated. you are mixing things up)

Wedchar2912, thanks for your patience and your willingness to share your invaluable insights.

I for one, appreciate it.

Do not get confused with the meaning of regulated.

Just an example:
Medicines are also regulated, but are the medical drug prices really regulated? Panadol must be 2rm per tablet?

Thanks bro, I appreciate it. I wasn’t going to make assumptions about how the bond market behaves in Malaysia vs the way it works here in Singapore, hence my qualifier earlier stating that my experience with bonds are from a Singapore perspective.

I prefer discussions and discourse over disagreements and discords

Hmm, your comment made me think of whether cash out refinancing a fully paid house to invest in bond to be a good idea and earn the net %

Bro, one thing you must remember is that you should not buy using leverage if possible.

My bond purchases are all made with spare cash. In fact my private bankers have offered me credit lines from which I could use to purchase bonds and earn the difference in the interest payable and the coupons paid. I respectfully declined.

While investment-grade bonds are generally very safe, who can be 100% sure? A good example is the recent Credit Suisse debacle. Imagine if you had cashed out on your fully paid property to invest in Credit Suisse bonds.

My very humble suggestion is only ever purchase what you can afford.

All the best.

I think some ppl confused with the regulated 🤦‍♀️ the structure is regulated but not for bond trading prices as they can be manipulated as CS AT1 bonds proves that already

What are you are saying is right because with OTC price can be rigged upon trading price for buying and selling as that is what is taken for reference in order for the issuers to indicate future coupon prices

Safer than investment grade are government bonds of a solid country. Tho safer means lower yield.

Worth la.
gomen will bail it out if got trouble, facepalm guy said ...
apa mahu takut?


Wah many thanks for saying that, tired trying to counter Wedchar2912´s totally negative post...

i sold that one was BBB, your UOB AT1 also downgraded to BBB since CS issue
but lucky US sorted it out fast enough and it has moved up back


you might be trying to help but kind of giving raw data and not in context
aka talking from the behind your desk
me practical guy going more by real life experience,
what´s behind the scene is secondary unless i can change it.

buy banker bonds i still will l..despite you have painted them ALL negatively.


You have a misconception there
Medicine is regulated for another purpose not so much for regulating prices of Panadol etc.
no difference from bond prices - leave it to demand and supply especially WHEN u can choose
where to get it.

ya true very safe also no use if coupons so low.

Isnt drb the one pasang most of mesia ckd import car?

Oh well... Just ignore everything I wrote since you feel so bad about it.

I kinda regretted sharing too much industry secrets.

edit: remember your post 36? didn't you wanted to know whats going on?

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Aug 1 2023, 08:11 PM

Yes as they own most assembly for import cars for Merc and BMW previously that was exported to China until recently

Don’t bother with him 🤦‍♀️ he cannot accept criticisms and must win type A as silly enough to think that every banker bonds is profitable to him 🤦‍♀️ when you know better that not all bonds are solid and credible

I also invest in treasuries to get potential capital gains, on top of the coupon. Basically take a directional view of where interest rate is going.

Add: for cap gains: I prefer Bond ETFsz rather than individual bonds.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Aug 2 2023, 11:42 AM

Did you get? My 1 lot did not get. Now have to find the highest FD to place...

Usually popular bonds will require the potential buyer to offer to buy in multiple lots, before being allocated some (or if you’re very lucky, all).

Good luck next time!

morning she already called happily told me i got all 3 lots..i asked since got others didnt get
can i let go 1 or 2 lots in case i wanted to..it seems she may lose out..it goes into the pool , she cant keep it sigh..
she booked 11milion got 4.75M.

i actually booked another 2 at FSM RM 100.50.....tak dapat then no headache lah..