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News Ukraine army launches large assault on SE Ukraine, Probable probing attack on Russian lines

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TSMilitaryMadness
post Jul 8 2023, 08:48 PM

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UK PM gonna soon receive an angry Zoom call laugh.gif


Selectt
post Jul 8 2023, 09:28 PM

wattttt!!
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i say just provide them for russia to retaliate and end the war at nego table.
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jul 8 2023, 09:51 PM

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Need to remind everyone that the US will currently only supply Ukraine with cluster munitions in the form of artillery-fired 155mm M483A1 DPICM shells, which has a far smaller load than air-dropped bombs.

While it can be fired continously, the shell's existing stocks and supply is much more limited for them to be able to be fired at the way and the rate coventional shells are fired.

According to 'official' figures, the dud rate for this type of cluster munition is 2%-4%, however Human Rights Watch and other anti-landmine activists say the dud rate can reach up to 14%-20%.

user posted image

This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: Jul 8 2023, 10:24 PM
countingcrows
post Jul 8 2023, 09:56 PM

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Lancet vs Leopard 2A6

countingcrows
post Jul 8 2023, 10:27 PM

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ROFL This is some funny sh*t 🤣

pattleongkam
post Jul 8 2023, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(ycs @ Jul 8 2023, 05:04 PM)
Ukraine is winning
user posted image

user posted image

QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jul 8 2023, 06:05 PM)
Ukraine is winning
user posted image

QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jul 8 2023, 06:15 PM)
An artillery shell lands amidst a unit of Ukrainian soldiers

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Ukraine is winning
user posted image

QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jul 8 2023, 08:37 PM)

America risks losing the moral high ground by supplying Ukraine with a weapon banned by much of the world, so why are they supplying it?

The White House is fully aware of the huge controversy surrounding this cluster munitions decision.

Some 123 countries are part of the 2008 International Convention on Cluster Munitions which bans the use or transfer of this particular weapon.

Almost all of America's allies are signatories to the convention.

Even within US government circles, there has been deep unease about supplying its own stockpile of cluster munitions to Ukraine.

As recently as last week, within the state department, there was division about the decision to supply the weapon.

Globally, civilians represent 97% of cluster munition casualties, according to a report last year by the Landmine and Cluster Munition Monitor - an organisation that seeks to ban them altogether.

By supplying the weapon, there is a clear risk to civilians, not now necessarily, but in the future. The legacy of unexploded cluster bomblets is evident on former battlefields globally.

America also risks losing the moral high ground against Russia by supplying a weapon banned by much of the world.

So why supply it?

Well, the facts on the ground are not in Ukraine's favour. The transfer is a clear signal that the war is not going well for Ukraine.

The so-called spring offensive did not materialise in the spring and looks set to falter through the summer too.

Ukraine is fast running out of more conventional artillery with supply stocks in America and elsewhere running low.

The munitions would be used by Ukraine on occupied Ukrainian soil. The risk to civilians would be owned by Ukraine. The onus would be on Ukraine, with a pledge of American help, to clear the unexploded munitions when the war comes to an end.
Even some western media start to question US decision hmm.gif
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QUOTE(countingcrows @ Jul 8 2023, 09:56 PM)
Lancet vs Leopard 2A6

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Ukraine is winning
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whistling.gif whistling.gif whistling.gif

countingcrows
post Jul 9 2023, 01:28 AM

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ATGM vs 🇺🇦 Tank

TSMilitaryMadness
post Jul 9 2023, 07:23 AM

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The Pentagon said the weapons they would send to Ukraine had a failure rate of 2.35 percent or less, far better than the usual rate that is common for cluster weapons.

But the Pentagon’s own statements indicate that the cluster munitions in question contain older grenades known to have a failure rate of 14 percent or more.

Pentagon officials have said the shells they will send to Ukraine are an improved version of a type used in 1991’s Operation Desert Storm. But the reality is slightly more complicated. The shells being sent to Kyiv can fly farther than the earlier versions, but they contain the same grenades, which had dud rates the Pentagon has characterized as unacceptably high.

Al Vosburgh, a retired Army colonel trained in bomb disposal, said that once the shooting stops in Ukraine, it will take a massive educational campaign to warn civilians of the risks of unexploded grenades before they can safely return home.

But Biden administration officials said they had little choice but to provide cluster munitions despite their lasting danger as Ukraine burns through artillery rounds and tries to make gains in a grueling counteroffensive against Russian troops.

The dud rate numbers offered by Pentagon officials vary greatly from what bomb disposal technicians and civilian deminers find in the field in post-conflict areas, including from the M864 projectile.

U.S. military bomb-disposal specialists are trained to exercise extreme caution in places where cluster weapons have been used, and to expect that about 20 percent of all submunitions, regardless of the country of origin, will fail to explode.



Possible short term gain worth the guaranteed long term problem?
hmm.gif

This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: Jul 9 2023, 07:25 AM
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jul 9 2023, 07:31 AM

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TSMilitaryMadness
post Jul 9 2023, 07:34 AM

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TSMilitaryMadness
post Jul 9 2023, 08:08 AM

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Russian drone operators say the german cross emblem the Ukrainians use on their vehicles make for excellent aiming points for guiding their drones.

laugh.gif

TSMilitaryMadness
post Jul 9 2023, 08:14 AM

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US or NATO personnel tasked with maintaining any F-16 fighter jets sent to Ukraine would become "legitimate military targets" for Russian strikes, a former U.S. Air Force commander has told Newsweek.

Countries that supply fourth-generation fighters such as F-16s to Kyiv will likely also need to send contractors or military personnel who have experience maintaining the sophisticated jets, according to retired Lt. Gen. Charlie "Tuna" Moore, former deputy commander of the Cyber Command.

"You're going to have to have individuals from the countries that fly these aircraft—whether the United States or NATO, countries that may be gifting them—on the ground in Ukraine performing that function, whether it's contractors or whether it's military individuals," Moore added.

"And that raises a big, big concern."

If citizens from the countries donating jets are needed on bases, they become "a very, very interesting target for Russia, and those locations would become legitimate military targets in accordance with the laws of armed conflict," Moore said.

ohmy.gif

kiasunkiasi
post Jul 9 2023, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jul 9 2023, 07:23 AM)
Possible short term gain worth the guaranteed long term problem?
hmm.gif
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this is the problem with Western capitalist style system, their politikus, CEO, etc. are elected / apponted on relatively short term basis, obviously they will aim for short term gain...
who cares about long term damage which come after their appontment?
bengm2019
post Jul 9 2023, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jul 9 2023, 08:14 AM)

US or NATO personnel tasked with maintaining any F-16 fighter jets sent to Ukraine would become "legitimate military targets" for Russian strikes, a former U.S. Air Force commander has told Newsweek.

Countries that supply fourth-generation fighters such as F-16s to Kyiv will likely also need to send contractors or military personnel who have experience maintaining the sophisticated jets, according to retired Lt. Gen. Charlie "Tuna" Moore, former deputy commander of the Cyber Command.

"You're going to have to have individuals from the countries that fly these aircraft—whether the United States or NATO, countries that may be gifting them—on the ground in Ukraine performing that function, whether it's contractors or whether it's military individuals," Moore added.

"And that raises a big, big concern."

If citizens from the countries donating jets are needed on bases, they become "a very, very interesting target for Russia, and those locations would become legitimate military targets in accordance with the laws of armed conflict," Moore said.

ohmy.gif
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Yup. Military air bases are legitimate targets in war. So, these countries will have to be ok with their own citizens getting killed.

Unless these jets will be maintained outside Ukraine.

Love the way this conflict is unfolding... The finale will be nukes...
bengm2019
post Jul 9 2023, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(Selectt @ Jul 8 2023, 09:28 PM)
i say just provide them for russia to retaliate and end the war at nego table.
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It's just more bombs... Doesn't end the war.... Russia has load of them too....
ycs
post Jul 9 2023, 02:21 PM

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WinkyJr
post Jul 9 2023, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(ycs @ Jul 9 2023, 02:21 PM)
just give them F-35
chaosneo
post Jul 9 2023, 03:32 PM

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do you ACTUALLY believe this or just sharing for the sake of it ? 🤔

QUOTE(ycs @ Jul 9 2023, 02:21 PM)
bengm2019
post Jul 9 2023, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jul 9 2023, 03:32 PM)
do you ACTUALLY believe this or just sharing for the sake of it ? 🤔
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I believe... Ukraine is depending on donations from other countries to fight... Without those donations, Ukraine army collapse long ago.

Do you know how much ammo is used in a single day?? Artillery alone over 10k rounds a day ...
chaosneo
post Jul 9 2023, 03:36 PM

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some operational level on the counter attack





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