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 Tanah runtuh bukan bermula di Father’s Organic Far

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codebreaker
post Dec 21 2022, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(smallcrab @ Dec 20 2022, 06:21 PM)
Ok, now insurance claim (if any) seems payable.
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I think cannot kot because the site camping don't have permit
desmond2020
post Dec 21 2022, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(poweredbydiscuz @ Dec 21 2022, 09:32 AM)
World cup mah. Gomen pass the ball to owner, owner pass the ball back to gomen.
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the music chair stop at the poor bastard that don't have approved plan on his hand
poweredbydiscuz
post Dec 21 2022, 09:36 AM

 
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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Dec 21 2022, 09:34 AM)
the music chair stop at the poor bastard that don't have approved plan on his hand
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Gomen said no need approval wo. Music continues.
desmond2020
post Dec 21 2022, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(poweredbydiscuz @ Dec 21 2022, 09:36 AM)
Gomen said no need approval wo. Music continues.
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you gotta be sure that come in writing

else if verbal, you familiar with hearsay?
poweredbydiscuz
post Dec 21 2022, 09:38 AM

 
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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Dec 21 2022, 09:37 AM)
you gotta be sure that come in writing

else if verbal, you familiar with hearsay?
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Got black and white campsite license application?

This post has been edited by poweredbydiscuz: Dec 21 2022, 09:38 AM
Blackscreamerz
post Dec 21 2022, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(poweredbydiscuz @ Dec 21 2022, 09:29 AM)
“Saya pernah bertanya kepada pegawai kerajaan sama ada kami perlu memohon lesen tapak perkhemahan atau tidak. Pegawai itu berkata tiada permit kerana tapak perkhemahan ini bukan struktur kekal seperti hotel, justeru tiada lesen untuk dipohon."

Pegawai tengah bergegar.
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rclxub.gif how can a business premise doesnt need a permit? The permit will state what kind of business can operate there. The officer err in this matter.
desmond2020
post Dec 21 2022, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(poweredbydiscuz @ Dec 21 2022, 09:38 AM)
Got black and white campsite license application?
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sure got black & white permit for hotel & resort

it is just question of want to do or not brows.gif

profit before everything right?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Dec 21 2022, 09:39 AM
poweredbydiscuz
post Dec 21 2022, 09:41 AM

 
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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Dec 21 2022, 09:39 AM)
sure got black & white permit for hotel & resort

it is just question of want to do or not  brows.gif

profit before everything right?
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Ya, wonder why gomen don't have permit for campsite.
Virlution
post Dec 21 2022, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Dec 21 2022, 09:30 AM)
are you familiar with hearsay?

A say he got ask

B says he never ask

this gonna be good
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siapa pengawai? tak tahu

tanya pengawai, siapa dia jumpa, tak tahu.

pengawai all ok je, continue life with tak tahu policy
jojolicia
post Dec 21 2022, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(Virlution @ Dec 21 2022, 09:20 AM)
what about house/units with grill on all windows? later fire cannot escape how? die blame owner or what?

very common this one. some got escape hatch but locked and key also dunno put where.
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Yes, very common on landed prop.
What is your duty of care to yourself as a tenant and to your family? Did you check, make known to the owner or you too wait till shit happened, ready to put blame.

You view the unit, make known your concern if landlord says as it is, then exercise your due diligent and duty of care to yourself and your family. Just walk out.

There must be two parts of everything to seal a deal.

This post has been edited by jojolicia: Dec 21 2022, 10:08 AM
SUSAccord2018
post Dec 21 2022, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(Blackscreamerz @ Dec 21 2022, 09:38 AM)
rclxub.gif how can a business premise doesnt need a permit? The permit will state what kind of business can operate there. The officer err in this matter.
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if you sell chicken in your shop does not mean you need to get a chicken license. It's still a restaurant business.

Let's say Kellie castle collected entrance fee from you, then you let the visitors to sleep inside till morning. license or not you still need responsible.
United Rulez
post Dec 21 2022, 09:59 AM

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https://www.motac.gov.my/perkhidmatan/dafta...jek-pelancongan

user posted image
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QUOTE
PENGENALAN
Projek pelancongan merujuk kepada sesuatu projek yang dirancang dan dibangunkan khas bagi menggalakkan aktiviti pelancongan dan berupaya menarik para pelancong untuk mengunjungi tempat berkenaan serta menceburi diri mereka dalam aktiviti yang diadakan.

JENIS PROJEK
Terbahagi kepada 2 jenis projek iaitu :

Projek Penginapan
-Hotel
-Pusat Peranginan/Resort
-Motel / Inn / Rest House
-Chalet
-Khemah Percutian

Projek Bukan Penginapan
-Taman Bertema
-Pusat Kraf tangan dan Pameran Kebudayaan Yang Bersepadu
-Galeri dan Muzium
-Taman Marina
-Restoran Pelancongan
-Pusat Persidangan / Pameran

SYARAT - SYARAT
1. Permohonan setiap projek pelancongan adalah ditimbang mengikut meritnya dari masa ke semasa berpandukan syarat dan ciri-ciri umum seperti berikut :
2. Sasaran pasaran projek adalah tertumpu kepada pelancong-pelancong sama ada pelancong tempatan ataupun pelancong asing.
3. Syarikat penganjur projek pelancongan itu hendaklah diperbadankan di Malaysia.
4. Pakej-pakej pelancongan boleh diadakan kerana tarikannya yang tersendiri.
5. Projek ini berupaya meningkatkan imej setempat serta mempelbagaikan kegiatan- kegiatan pelancongan (spin-off).
6. Seni bina bangunan dan hiasan dalaman projek yang berunsurkan budaya tempatan adalah digalakkan.
7. Projek ini tidak berunsur keahlian atau bersifat exclusive.
8. Bagi projek penginapan, tiada syarat minimum length of stay, tiada konsep time- sharing atau pemilikan individu ke atas bilik-bilik penginapan dan tiada bahagian daripada projek
    penginapan tersebut dijual kepada individu atau disewa secara jangka panjang.
9. Bagi projek bukan penginapan, pelaburan minima yang dibenarkan ialah RM10 juta, tidak termasuk kos tanah.
10.Pembinaan projek mestilah siap sekurang-kurangnya 75%.

TATACARA PERMOHONAN
1. Satu borang permohonan yang lengkap diisi dimajukan kepada :
Ketua Setiausaha
Kementerian Pelancongan
Bahagian Pembangunan Industri
Tingkat 14, Menara 1
No. 2, Jalan P5/6, Presint 5
62200 Putrajaya
2. Kementerian Pelancongan Malaysia tidak 'terikat' untuk memaklumkan sebab - sebab penolakan permohonan.
3. Kegagalan mengemukakan dokumen lengkap berdasarkan senarai semak boleh menyebabkan permohonan ditolak.
4. Permohonan yang diluluskan sebagai projek pelancongan tidak secara automatik melayakkan syarikat-syarikat berkenaan mendapat kelulusan untuk galakan/insentif-insentif pelancongan.
5. Borang Permohonan Pendaftaran Projek Pelancongan adalah percuma dan tidak melibatkan apa-apa kos pendaftaran.
6. Borang Pendaftaran Projek Pelancongan hendaklah ditaip.


This post has been edited by United Rulez: Dec 21 2022, 10:06 AM
persona93
post Dec 21 2022, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(Ayambetul @ Dec 20 2022, 05:40 PM)
Tanah private - checked

Boleh buat camp - checked

Boleh untung - checked

Ok let's start the business
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nahhhh

Tanah private - checked

Boleh buat camp - checked

Boleh untung - checked

gogocan
post Dec 21 2022, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(yugimudo @ Dec 21 2022, 07:43 AM)
Why do many people pushing this "natural disaster" narrative?

Flood also can be human caused like in KL and Taman Muda.

This landslide also have distinctive pattern of uncontrollable logging and farming activities.

Also, you must have never owned land before. It will clearly state in the title if your land is for farming or residence. Even what type of tree is stated, meaning a rubber plantation title can't simply convert to papaya or banana plantation.

Owner negligence started when he started an illegal commercial activity on a land intended for plantation. If he want to make a resort, need to change the title to resort type. Now, could you explain why he didn't?

Plotek more.
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The most owner will kena is breaching land use

Melanggar syarat tetap dan jenis-jenis penggunaan tanah
Denda tidak melebihi RM500.00 dan denda tambahan tidak kurang dariRM100.00 bagi tiap-tiap hari pelanggaran berterusan.

Negligence very hard to prove when the landslide happen not in your land. In this case the owner can claim he also a victim even.
shaniandras2787
post Dec 21 2022, 10:13 AM

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this is just straight up "Occupiers' Liability" territory.

making a statement such as "oh, the land slide did not originated from our area, it came from *insert place*" or "i have intention to apply license but then don't have" doesn't make the operator anywhere less guilty. i opine that the AG should at least consider charging the operator with a criminal offense. for what it is worth, the operator is actually openly advertising and inviting people to camp in his land for a price.

on the other hand, contributory negligence by the trip organizer(s) and adult participant(s) who had zero common sense arranging for / attending a hill-area outdoor camping during rainy season.

this is just a combination of pure bad luck with people having zero common sense.

i only pity the small children that were needlessly sacrificed because of the foolish adults.




ReoAyanami
post Dec 21 2022, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(jojolicia @ Dec 21 2022, 09:03 AM)
I am no lawman, here my opinion again to your question.

Circumstantial.
If you can prove negligence by the landlord, that led to the tenant death due to flooding.

Note the duty of care here (landlord) is NOT how/ who/ what caused the flooding, it is circumstances (any negligence on landlord part) leading to his death due to the flooding. Re-read this if unclear.

Just one example.

In Selongor service apartment, if a landlord panai panai disarm the door closers at main door, yard door or some even change the fire door to Upvc collapsable door at yard (due to space saving), if a fire broke up say corridor near the unit, neighbour etc tenants charcoaled. There is a reason why its called 2 hour fire rated door (why not 1,5, 6 hour). This is negligence on the landlord, if shit happens.

One more, partitioning at living room with combustible material. Yes, extra room for rental more money. Good luck, nothing happen you get to keep the rent money, shit happen you lose your underwear. Illegal renting is one matter, negligence leading to death is another. Doesn't matter who, where from, how, what caused of fire.

Never mess with the sprinkles provided in your unit. Live with all that, its commercial title dwelling that you are residing
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QUOTE(Accord2018 @ Dec 21 2022, 09:23 AM)
rent room is different because there is no need license.

For this farm business, they just want to create excuses to wash hands. It's still a business after all since they collect charges. Morning and afternoon sessions can consider as visiting farm agrotourism business. Then at night, you prepare shelter for people to sleep considered as accommodation business already. They cannot escape liability. When it is a business, then you must perform a reasonable standard of care(land expert to perform checking, fire safety, etc). It does not matter landslides or tiger attacks because that kind of harm is reasonably foreseeable.  If aeroplanes fall down or robbery then it is not foreseeable and owner need not be responsible.
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So, DOSH did say that they are going to investigate if the area has been tampered with until it might have caused a landslide. If the farm is not found to have done anything that might have caused a landslide, is there a law that requires them to take more precaution than is required for the workers staying at the farm?
jojolicia
post Dec 21 2022, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(Accord2018 @ Dec 21 2022, 09:23 AM)
rent room is different because there is no need license.

For this farm business, they just want to create excuses to wash hands. It's still a business after all since they collect charges. Morning and afternoon sessions can consider as visiting farm agrotourism business. Then at night, you prepare shelter for people to sleep considered as accommodation business already. They cannot escape liability. When it is a business, then you must perform a reasonable standard of care(land expert to perform checking, fire safety, etc). It does not matter landslides or tiger attacks because that kind of harm is reasonably foreseeable.  If aeroplanes fall down or robbery then it is not foreseeable and owner need not be responsible.
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I rike your 'tiger attack' yes, there is the risk
Chisinlouz
post Dec 21 2022, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(yugimudo @ Dec 21 2022, 06:54 AM)
I disagree the term "natural disaster" on this tragedy.

It involves nature but the cause is not natural at all.

The area has been tampered for farming activities and logging.

If there are no human activities, the landslide would likely not occurred.

As who to be blame, we can blame the camp site owner as he do an illegal activity on his land that is designated as agriculture purposes.
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You are partially correct.

Landslide will still occur in a place without human activity but likely on a smaller scale. There is no media coverage so we do not know about that.

Whether land owner to be blamed it's up to authority to decide.

Authority shall improve in better regulation since too many operate in grey area.



SUSCincai lar
post Dec 21 2022, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Dec 21 2022, 09:32 AM)
oh, if camp boss can sure he take all necessary precaution then he is safe too

it start with an approved development plan

don't have? good lord, you gonna enjoy the jail
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so the camp boss need to be a geologist and meteorologist ???...
SUSAccord2018
post Dec 21 2022, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(ReoAyanami @ Dec 21 2022, 10:25 AM)
So, DOSH did say that they are going to investigate if the area has been tampered with until it might have caused a landslide. If the farm is not found to have done anything that might have caused a landslide, is there a law that requires them to take more precaution than is required for the workers staying at the farm?
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REGISTRATION OF BUSINESSES ACT 1956

Offences
12. (1) Any person who—
(a) being a person required to register his business under this
Act carries on that business without registering the business
commits an offence and shall on conviction be liable to a fine not
exceeding *fifty thousand ringgit or to imprisonment for a term
not exceeding two years or to both


For this act sure kena already unless they pusing2 saying they are not doing business.

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