so pastor, have your eyes and hand make you sin today?

oh man

instrument mean it doesn't have mind of its own, so pastor, hand itself wont sin on it own

oh dear, did you visited prostitute?

anyway, I can say i have only one sex partner in my life who is my wife. Pastor, how about you?

anyway, when i said about Judas, i mean he was once saved but of course you want to believe as i mean judas go to heaven. of course not, judas forsake the name that purchased him from bondage of sin and hence is destined to hell. Was Judas once saved? absolutely. do you know what jesus required of his disciple when he called them to follow him?

Do Not Be Anxious
22 And he said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24 Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! 25 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[c] 26 If then you are not able to do as small a thing as that, why are you anxious about the rest? 27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin,[d] yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! 29 And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be worried. 30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 Instead, seek his[e] kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

32 “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Luke 12 ESV

I wonder how many christians today can do this?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 09:38 AM

So, all prophet in OT is not saved. Duly noted.

and since you said it isn't possible for HS to come prior to crucifixion. let me just post this below:-

Not only apostles, but even the prophets of the Old Testament, who are lower than apostles, had a degree of presence of Spirit in themselves, through Whom they prophesied (needn't to give references, for they are so numerous!).

In the New Testament, Elisabeth, John the Forerunner's mother, was filled with Spirit as she saw the pregnant Virgin, and she prophesied immediately (Luke 1:39-41) and so did the old widow-prophetess Anna at vision of Jesus taken to the temple (Luke 2:36-38); John the Forerunner himself was filled with Holy Spirit from his childhood (Luke 1:15), and of course the apostles, even before the Pentecost, had a degree of presence of Spirit in them (at least no less than John the Forerunner), through which presence they could act miracles; they got even to a greater degree of intensity the gift of the Spirit, when Jesus - before the Pentecost - blew in them the Spirit and added to them (through this new dimension of the presence of Spirit) an ability to forgive sins (John 20:22).

Thus, the Pentecost is the culmination, the ultimate gift of Spirit, when the apostles get Him to such an extent and intensity that they can already be emboldened by Him to preach to all corners of the world, withstanding all calamities and opposing powers. However, of course, the apostles had smack of the Spirit even before, for even before Spirit was present in them to a certain degree and intensity; they possessed the Spirit-ual gifts even before the Pentecost, however the gifts of the Infinite Spirit are also infinite and at the Pentecost they got a greater share of this graceful infinity, so as to totally be absorbed in it.



And make no mistake, you have no authority over me.

so pastor, you accuse me of visiting prostitute

now, where is the proof?

so before Pentecost, when HS come it stay outside? which bible verse tell you that? ohmai

41:38 So Pharaoh asked his officials, “Can we find a man like Joseph, one in whom the Spirit of God is present?”
Genesis

27:18 The Lord replied to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;
Number

4:8 Later Daniel entered (whose name is Belteshazzar after the name of my god, and in whom there is a spirit of the holy gods). I recounted the dream for him as well, 5:11 There is a man in your kingdom who has within him a spirit of the holy gods. In the days of your father, he proved to have insight, discernment, and wisdom like that of the gods. King Nebuchadnezzar your father appointed him chief of the magicians, astrologers, wise men, and diviners. 12 Thus there was found in this man Daniel, whom the king renamed Belteshazzar, an extraordinary spirit, knowledge, and skill to interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve difficult problems. Now summon Daniel, and he will disclose the interpretation.” 13 So Daniel was brought in before the king. The king said to Daniel, “Are you that Daniel who is one of the captives of Judah, whom my father the king brought from Judah? 14 I have heard about you, how there is a spirit of the gods in you, and how you have insight, discernment, and extraordinary wisdom. 6:3 Now this Daniel was distinguishing himself above the other supervisors and the satraps, for he had an extraordinary spirit. In fact, the king intended to appoint him over the entire kingdom.
Daniel

so?

I incline to believe that all believer is saved the same way, either OT or NT. and HS indwelling in all believer, OT or NT

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 12:30 PM

first thing, they died in faith, so their salvation is secured.

Second thing, this is talking about savior which is promised to abraham. and abraham did see jesus and its day and he rejoice John 8:56

now, i am not sure how this can be tied to salvation.

Anyway, what i said is Judas is onced saved. which you throw out the Pentecost verse saying no salvation prior to that. Which is not biblical

Throughout bible, OT and NT, men and women is commended for their faith and work resulted from faith. Only

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 01:15 PM

when satan entered judas is recorded during the last supper correct? prior to that Judas already sold jesus to priest for 30 silver coins right?. which mean he already forsake the name who save him. which mean HS is no longer with him

hope that answer your question

if you mean that judas called jesus rabbi, then afraid that Peter also called jesus rabbi

Rabbi is a term at that time refer to teacher, it is not an occupation but a tittle given by jews to person they follow

like i say before this, it is perfectly possible for man to lost their salvation after being born again. there are numerous cases in bible, OT and NT

of course you will disagree on this, but anyway.

All of that is conditional on faith

And keeping of faith. And endure till the end

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 03:01 PM

i think he refer to 'promised' as salvation, instead of a savior as people normally believe

you know, atonement. each time they sin, they make sacrifice. then after new covenant is in force with crucifixion of jesus, then no more atonement is needed

How does God forgive us of our sins?

1. God’s forgiveness is cleansing in nature.

“…on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the Lord, you will be clean from all your sins.” - Leviticus 16:30

2. God’s forgiveness pardons sinners.

“In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now." The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth.” - Numbers 14:19-21

3. God hides our sins and does not hold them against us.

Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord does not count against them and in whose spirit is no deceit. - Psalm 32:1-2

4. God forgiveness is purifying at its core.

“Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin…Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.” - Psalm 51: 2; 7

5. God forgiveness is infinite in nature.

“The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever, he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.” - Psalm 103:8-12

6. God’s forgiveness is redemptive in character.

“Israel, put your hope in the Lord, for with the Lord is unfailing love and with him is full redemption. He himself will redeem Israel from all their sins.” - Psalm 130:7-8

7. God’s forgiveness is transformational.

"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. - Isaiah 1:18

8. God moves our sins out of His sight.

“Surely it was for my benefit that I suffered such anguish. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you have put all my sins behind your back.” - Isaiah 38:17

9. God chooses not to remember our sins anymore.

"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.” - Isaiah 43:25

10. God dissipates our sins forever.

“I have swept away your offenses like a cloud, your sins like the morning mist. Return to me, for I have redeemed you.” - Isaiah 44:22

Special note: “Nothing can more strikingly represent sin in its nature and consequences, than a dense, dark, frowning cloud that comes over the heavens, and shuts out the sun, and fills the air with gloom; and nothing can more beautifully represent the nature and effect of pardon than the idea of removing such a cloud, and leaving the sky pure, the air calm and serene, and the sun pouring down his beams of warmth and light on the earth. So the soul of the sinner is enveloped and overshadowed with a dense cloud, but pardon dissipates that cloud, and it is calm and joyful, and serene.” –Albert Barnes

11. God’s forgiveness is ultimately substitutionary.

“We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” - Isaiah 53:6

12. God’s forgiveness gives us a right standing before with HIm.

“After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge, my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.” - Isaiah 53:11

13. God’s forgiveness does not dredge up our sins anymore.

“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” - Jeremiah 31:34

14. God’s forgiveness washes away all of our sins.

“I will cleanse them from all the sin they have committed against me and will forgive all their sins of rebellion against me.” - Jeremiah 33:8

15. God’s cleansing forgiveness is restorative.

“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt.” ­- Ezekiel 36:33

16. God’s forgiveness is merciful in essence.

“The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him.” -Daniel 9:9

17. God’s forgiveness is profoundly freeing and utterly complete.

“Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea. - Micah 7:18-19

18. God’s forgiveness removes our sins to replace them with His blessings.

“See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put fine garments on you.” - Zechariah 3:4

https://garyrohrmayer.typepad.com/yourjourn...rgives-sin.html

let me tell you my understanding, OT saints make atonement for their sins, which is temporary cover (as long as it is done out of faith, because without faith, no atonement can please god) and they are in followship with god which mean their sins is forgiven. If they die in faith then they will go to heaven. but not yet since there is sin of adam that yet to be covered. Abraham was promised a savior for that effect, and he see jesus and his day and are happy. so jesus atonement fulfil all the requirement.

nope, with faith, their salvation is assured.

oh ya, their faith, which include believing a savior to be sent already imputed as their righteousness. which is definition of faith

some said jesus went to hell for three days

dude, that is 1 john 1:7

Anyway, that pretty unconventional interpretation of said verse. Let see what mainstream intepretation is:-

1 John 1:7
by Grant Richison | Feb 12, 2001 | 1 John | 10 comments

Read Introduction to 1 John


“But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”



Verse 7 introduces the counter-claim to the false claim in verse 6 of walking in fellowship with God.

But if we walk in the light

Believers who want to walk with God must walk in the light. We fellowship with God on God’s terms and not on our terms. We conform to God; God does not conform to us.

Eph 5:8-14, 8 “For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light… 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:

‘Awake, you who sleep,

Arise from the dead,

And Christ will give you light.’”

Co 1:12-14, 12 “…giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”

as He is in the light,

The basis of fellowship with God is God Himself. When we walk in the light, we walk according to the light. God is in the light. He exists in the sphere of truth and righteousness.

1 Ti 6:16, “…who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”

we have fellowship with one another,

“Fellowship with one another” is not fellowship with other Christians but fellowship with God. When we walk according to the character of God, we can fellowship with God. Genuine fellowship with God can only occur if we live in the sphere of God’s character (light).

We can fellowship with God because we hold something in common with Him. Christians have continuity of fellowship with Him because the blood of Christ resolves the sin issue. We can walk in the light because of Christ, not because of human merit.

PRINCIPLE:

God determines our fellowship with Him on His character, not our character.

APPLICATION:

Walking in darkness is walking out of phase with God, not in accordance with the truth. Darkness is the absence of light. When we step out of phase with God, we walk in darkness. We turn our volition away from the truth of God concerning our lives. This makes us susceptible not to examine ourselves honestly. If we do not examine ourselves, we will not apply the truth to experience. We then walk in delusion.

Eph 5:11, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.”

When we walk in the light, we become easier to live with. We are more compassionate and gracious. We walk without pretense before others. We are transparent and genuine with others. We are transparent with God.

1 Pe 2:9, “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light…

The nearer we get to God, the more terrible our sin seems to us. Living in fellowship with God means that we do not demonstrate our anger as often as we used to do. We live according to our claim to walk with the God of light. We are not as critical and negative as we used to be.

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 29 2023, 10:08 AM

Maybe that is the devil whispering