Cool...... Heb11:17  by faith Abraham offered up Isaac.
Heb11;7  by faith Noah moved with godly fear and build the ark.
This is a difficult question.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

King James Version (KJV)

Wow. Good that you are diligent to research the Hebrew. A very useful person to know.
It's obvious there is a polemic on the definition and understanding of the concept of faith when we look AT Paul's pov and James pov.
I think they are both looking at the same thing but from different vantage points.
So there is a danger we oversimplify it and swing to one extreme.
We should note that Paul is writing from the context of the apostle to the gentiles. At that time there was influence creeping into the new gentile church from Judaism and his writing was intended to stem this.
James makes an intriguing point. The devil also believe but tremble. So when we talk about believe we need to qualify it.
I wonder if James wrote the epistle in response to Paul's overzealous views?

When you say that modern Christians are affected by reading and interpreting scriptures in English language ONLY, is that a positive (understand) or a negative (don't understand) ?

Ok so let me try to get this straight. A proper understanding of scriptures can only come from an individual who has training or knowledge both in the Hebrew language and also an understanding about Jewish faith & their worldviews ?

Oh I see, it's about the OT.

Ok what about the NT ? Will the modern Christian still be impacted negatively or positively on trying to study and understand the NT ?

Ok I know completely nothing about the Hebrew language nor the Jewish faith or their worldviews, so chances I am highly misled. Got it.

I am just a laity and was a lector for today's morning mass Ecc 15:15-20 and the priest was a new guy who had been transferred to our church and this morning he presided it. I understood everything he mentioned during the sermon, which frankly is the best sermon I have heard for a long time. However there was 1 part which I did not understand when the priest said this "Jesus's Sermon on the Mount is weird." He was referring to our Lord teachings especially the Beautitudes.

To be ordained as a priest, one would have to pass all the studies and found to be a sane mind, correct ? I presume that there they would have studied Hebrew language or even the Jewish faith and traditions etc to have a better grasp on the issue. Basically they like you and many here, would know more than an nobody like me.

My question is what is weird about Jesus's teachings on true happiness ? Do you find anything weird too about the Sermon on the Mount ?

God's mercy. It's who God is. He is merciful and loving

For example, we were often taught that we should always declare that “I am the righteousness of God in Christ”. I was like a parrot who kept repeating that phrase, feeling and thinking that I am always righteous in front of God because He only sees Jesus in my life.



We were reminded by Joseph Prince to keep declaring that even more when we are sinning because we must remember that God does not see our sins because we are covered with Jesus’s robe of righteousness. God is always pleased with us because He only sees the finished work Jesus has accomplished on the cross for us.



I have to admit that this teaching felt liberating and refreshing when I first heard it. It felt good to think that no matter what I do, it doesn’t really matter because anyway God doesn’t see the wrongs or sins I have committed but only Jesus’ finished work. In reality, it is actually such a dangerous teaching because it actually makes believers unconsciously take sins very lightly, which I did.



Along with the teaching of declaring I am the righteousness of God in Christ; Joseph Prince aligns his teachings with how the Holy Spirit comes only to convict us of righteousness and never to convict a believer his sins. He emphasizes that the Holy Spirit will never point out our faults and believers are living in defeat because they don’t understand that the Holy Spirit is only here to convict them of their righteousness in Christ!



But John 16:8, “And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement,” says that the Holy Spirit inside us helps to bring us to the realization of our sinfulness and our guilt before God.



Imagine that the Holy Spirit whom God sends to every believer will never prompt or tell a believer when he is wrong or in sin but instead will only be telling the believer to remember how righteous he is because of Jesus. That he should continue to declare his righteousness in Christ even when he is committing the sin and the Holy Spirit who is God will never convict him of his sins? Even though it was such a strange and false teaching, I believed it and did exactly that even when I sinned. How deceived I was by such evil teachings of Joseph Prince!



Joseph Prince loves to use the example or testimony of how a man who was addicted to pornography would be declaring, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ” even as he watched porn and the Holy Spirit inside him would convict him of his righteousness which is in Christ!!! And slowly but surely, this man will lose his desire to watch porn and he is delivered from his addiction through this way. This teaching is so toxic and dangerous.



In fact, Joseph Prince teaches us that all our sins, past, present and future have all been forgiven and we do not have to confess our sins in order to get forgiveness. We were taught that if we confess our sins, we negate what Jesus has done for us on the cross.

Pls check abit on theology.

The Bible states only with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, one is sealed like a guarantee deposit for Salvation.

Prior to Christ death and resurrection and until the Holy Spirit was sent, how could they be saved  as in Christians today?

I agree that they were saved by their faith but scripture is consistent in it's truth. Look at the whole passage in hebrews 11.

But before this, Christ our Lord stated this truth

John 3:3 (New International Version) - Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

He told that to Nicodemus, not just any teacher but a Master teacher of Israel.  He is under the old covenant.

Therefore;

If you read in Hebrews 11:39 - 40 (NIV) These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

What Hebrews 11:39-40 is saying is that these OT saint did not received what had been promised, until Christ came. What is the context of this promise?
The passage here tells us it's their promised Salvation. Again you see the phrase "They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance". Verse 16 tells us the answer of what this promise is.

Now the question that begs the answer is a mystery.

If they weren't saved until Christ's coming, where were they held?

This I don't know. Bible didn't say, I dare not say.

There are quite an argument on this but for me it is not important.

What's important is that Judas wasn't saved as implied by bro Desmond.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

I never deny it's by faith.

But look at

Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40.

They didn't receive what was promised until Christ came.

The wordings "didn't receive" is there stated very clearly.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

What I'm talking about is on timeline. They didn't receive it immediately. Not until Christ came. That is stated in hebrews 11.

i think he refer to 'promised' as salvation, instead of a savior as people normally believe

I didn't say they didn't receive Salvation. They did but they didn't receive it immediately (For OT Saints). They too had to wait for Christ.

See the post on Hebrews 11 I posted.

It's not my statement

But Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40
Hebrews 11

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,
40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

See verse 13 & 39.

Verse 40 tell us when they received it.

I'll admit it's a bit of a mystery for me when it comes to the Old Testament saint of being saved.

I can agree the Old Testament saints were saved in the same way as the New Testament Saints which is by Faith in God and by God's grace alone, nothing to do with works of the Law. Nobody is denying that.

However I'm talking about timeline. Is it right to say the OT saints didn't receive Salvation until Christ finished his work? Or did they immediately even before Christ finished his work?

The BIble is very clear. Without the Shedding of Blood, There is No Forgiveness of Sins, pointing specifically to Christ's divine blood.

If you say that they did even before Christ finished his work, then how were their sins removed? <===This???? As we all know Christ has not died yet.

Being forgiven is one thing but to remove sins is another matter.

Because the confusion lies very easily by relating when one is saved you are eligible to enter heaven.

And Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40 clearly tells us they didn't received the promised of heaven until Christ came.

We cannot deny the truth of scripture in Hebrews 11:39.

BTW the word country is not really there in the Greek, it's there to help signify a place.

What is your opinion?

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If its' TLDR, just focus on the 2 points in bold.

This is interesting. Is that the general Protestant understanding? Or is it peculiar to some particular denominations only?

Moses and Elijah disagreed wit u since they met Jesus in the mount of transfiguration

unless u said God pluck them out from hell beforehand..

and wat about Lazarus who resides in Abrahams bosom according to Jesus?

that cannot be in hell isit?