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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 16, Welcome Christians, Love is the greatest

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zanness
post Aug 10 2024, 08:05 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 10 2024, 06:56 PM)
I appreciate what you're doing here đŸ™đŸ»

I personally encourage everyone to challenge their own faith. I've challenged and questioned many times and it's always draw me closer to God.
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Yes
John 14:26 ,” But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

God promised we will be able to learn.. as long as we do not hardened our hearts

I’ve always been amazed , especially in the last two weeks, how easy the Bible has shown it’s truth

This thread used to contain more biblical discussions rather than vain comments or opinions..

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 10 2024, 11:33 PM
zanness
post Aug 11 2024, 01:59 AM

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Since some people may be confused on how to read and understand Bible verses, let's look at some hot topics in last weeks..

UNDERSTANDING "SAINTS" IN THE BIBLE

The New Testament contains 13 letters attributed to Paul
The 13 are Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galations, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon.
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As all of the above examples show, Paul has a consistent method on how to address the letter.
It consistently start from who sent it; which was Paul, and to whom it was sent to; most of the time to the “Saints” AND to the other people who believed in Christ
Now interestingly (as I recently discovered), there are some school of thoughts that think since these letters are addressed ONLY to Ephesus, or ONLY to Galatia, etc.. then whatever that was mentioned in that letter do not take weight to Christians. This is VERY WRONG, MISLEADING, and shows proof of LACK OF BIBLE STUDY.
Allow me to explain from the Bible why it is impossible and dangerous for a Christian to think as such.

1.We must be consistent in interpreting the Bible.
If a person wrongfully assume Ephesians is only for those in Ephesus, means everything in Ephesus is no longer valid for Christians.
Which means Romans, are only for those in Rome, and Galations only for Galatia, and Philippians only for Philippi, and so on.
Every letter from Paul was attention to someone or a group of people.
Does it mean all those letters no longer apply for Christians?
NO! because it does not make sense and is a very wrong imaginary interpretation
Because we know, the introduction was always to more than just 1 group of people.
For example:
Ephesians-->to the saints, AND to the faithful
Colossians--> to the saints AND faithful brethren
Galations-->All the brethren..
And the list goes on



We must not ignore the following verses that shows Paul’s letters are for not just SAINTS, but also for Christians which ARE SAINTS.
Romans 1:7, “To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
All in Rome, called to be saints.. Again, this we know, includes GENTILES and JEWS. And we know not just those in ROME, but those who were beloved by God are called to be SAINTS.
Ephesians 2:19,” Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;”
Just before Ephesians 2:19, Paul was talking about salvation, how Gentiles as well, were loved by God.
Colossians 1:12
So let no one confuse you that Christians, are not saints.
From Romans 1:7 and Ephesians 2:19, we know Jews, Gentiles, were called to be saints.

Stay tune for the next post which I will then share on the logics of reading / interpreting the Bible and not leaving it to any personal opinions







zanness
post Aug 11 2024, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 11 2024, 02:14 PM)
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zanness My repost for your reminder, .......
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Fyi, my reply today to 'zanness' at RWI, .......

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110244153 - Protestant matters - RWI

IOW, the Bible/Scripture says that the 12 apostles, the first martyr Stephen, some faithful Jewish Christian saints and some faithful Gentile Christian saints in Ephesus, Philippi, Rome, Corinth, Galatia, etc, circa 1st century AD, have already  been elected/chosen and predestined by God to be saved from hell but as for the rest of the Christians after them like us today, let God/Jesus be the judge as to our election/chosenness and predestination by God wrt us being saved from hell, ie saved solely by faith in Christ/Messiah.
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Once more
Did you reply for the sake of replying and not even addressing the verses?

You put in opinions and not substantiating whatever you say
You should wait for my next reply which I will do for your sake
On how to read, interpret, and cross reference biblically

For now
I advice you try to at the very least read, understand, and discuss from the verses I told you instead of planting your opinions and thoughts

You don’t want to be called a heretic for that
Thanks


zanness
post Aug 11 2024, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 11 2024, 03:15 PM)
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Remember the Lord/God Jesus Christ's Parable Of The Sower, The Wheat And The Tares at MATTHEW.13, ie there are and will be Christians planted in Churches who will lose faith in Christ = lose salvation, for various reasons, eg by following doctrines of demons because of their ignorance of the Bible/Scripture, during times of tribulation and persecution (= love their lives > Jesus/God), they love money/well-paying jobs > God/Jesus, etc.
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P S - Fyi, I often do ignore comments/opinions by others here at SK and RWI that are biblically out-of-context and/or misinterpreted or based on false teachings or doctrines of demons or when I agree to disagree with others.
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No difference with the lost
You see the Bible verses that don’t suit you
You ignore?

Thanks for admitting you do ignore BIBLE verses
At the very least If you throw at me Bible verses to substantiate your believe I can at least discuss with you Bible verses

The fact I’ve presented to you clear Bible verses that are self explanatory without me even saying,
And yet you IGNORE!

That explains why you would want to limit people in their comments

Cos once it’s something that you can’t agree on and you don’t have the facts, and when someone exposes you for how lost and unfounded you are, you ignore them
zanness
post Aug 11 2024, 03:49 PM

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This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 11 2024, 03:49 PM
zanness
post Aug 11 2024, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 11 2024, 04:08 PM)
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Fyi, there are some LYN forum members whom I ignore, ie put on my Ignore List, for various reasons, eg for making personal insults or ad hominem attacks, offensive posts, etc against me.

Why do you think the LYN Forum has the Ignore List, our smartphones have the Block List, etc.?

Fyi, .......

ISAIAH.53:7 (NKJV) = 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, ...

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FYI

The common rule of thumb is unless you can substantiate your claims FROM THE BIBLE, or if you claims are AGAINST what Bible verses have claimed , and you are in denial of it’s truth,
You’re not helping Christians learn and instead spreading false information


You may ignore the truth, attract those like minded.. but I’m sure those who look for truth would know as it’s clearly written


And fyi, whatever Bible verse you used to explain your commentaries and opinions, were all clearly explained by the Bible verses I show you, and you conveniently ignore them with no basis , and claim they were misinterpreted (even this, you cant explain how its misinterpreted)..

You don’t have to reply this if there’s no new Bible verses that you can use to substantiate your claims, or even to discuss on those verses I’ve showed you..

If I were you and there are so many verses that goes against my own believes, I would be worried and would try to find evidences and proof or explanations on why those verses say so.. but I guess you’re satisfied with commentaries and opinions

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 08:27 AM
zanness
post Aug 11 2024, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 11 2024, 02:14 PM)
.
zanness My repost for your reminder, .......
.
Fyi, my reply today to 'zanness' at RWI, .......

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110244153 - Protestant matters - RWI

IOW, the Bible/Scripture says that the 12 apostles, the first martyr Stephen, some faithful Jewish Christian saints and some faithful Gentile Christian saints in Ephesus, Philippi, Rome, Corinth, Galatia, etc, circa 1st century AD, have already  been elected/chosen and predestined by God to be saved from hell but as for the rest of the Christians after them like us today, let God/Jesus be the judge as to our election/chosenness and predestination by God wrt us being saved from hell, ie saved solely by faith in Christ/Messiah.
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QUOTE(zanness @ Aug 11 2024, 01:59 AM)
Since some people may be confused on how to read and understand Bible verses, let's look at some hot topics in last weeks..

UNDERSTANDING "SAINTS" IN THE BIBLE
1.We must be consistent in interpreting the Bible.
If a person wrongfully assume Ephesians is only for those in Ephesus, means everything in Ephesus is no longer valid for Christians.
Which means Romans, are only for those in Rome, and Galations only for Galatia, and Philippians only for Philippi, and so on.
Every letter from Paul was attention to someone or a group of people.
Does it mean all those letters no longer apply for Christians?
NO! because it does not make sense and is a very wrong imaginary interpretation
Because we know, the introduction was always to more than just 1 group of people.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Stay tune for the next post which I will then share on the logics of reading / interpreting the Bible and not leaving it to any personal opinions
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To all christians who may be new, and learning about the Bible..

We do not pick and choose the Bible verses that suit us or do not suit us.. CONSISTENCY in interpreting the Bible..
To be honest, this is the first time I hear it but its okay.. based on this self-made rule of ,"some of the things Paul wrote to the Ephesians can be profitable to other Christian believers for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

That itself is inconsistent because
1. The Bible has clearly stated who they are addressed to .. unless written OTHERWISE another person it is addressed..we cant pick as we like what the Bible states and match it based on own liking or reasoning.
2. If the Bible addresses it to SOMEONE ELSE, the Bible would have wrote it as well.. so again we dont pick and choose
i.e.The BIBLE does it according to the verses before or in the verse itself..

All letters were not just to the SAINTS but to all Christians (who are called to be SAINTS) according to the Bible in Ephesians and Romans..

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 11 2024, 10:32 PM
zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 09:23 AM

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Understanding “Sheep” in the Bible
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There are FIVE ways of looking at it
The word Sheep appeared approximately 200 times in the Bible. And in a summary of that, in the entire Bible, it has been generally used in the FIVE ways mentioned below.

Why are there FIVE ways?
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The confusion some had on "sheep"
Can sheeps be further narrowed down to different groups of people at different parts of the Bible?
The clear answer is NO because we believe the Bible is perfect, and does not contradict itself. Furthermore, the Bible has clearly explained
But let’s see from the Bible.

FACT no.1 - SHEEP includes EVERYONE :
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Fact no.2 - SHEEP are lost, and need a shepherd.
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Conclusion 1 : it is plainly written who Sheep represents, at all times.. all of us whom God have chosen. If God had not chosen us, we are not his Sheep.
John 10:14,” I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”
John 10:16,”And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” (p/s... remember we are lost sheep.. all astray and needed to be back in one fold)

Conclusion 2: We know sheep there are no distinction of Sheep. “..and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
There is no distinction of Apostles, or Jews, or Gentiles in SHEEP. either in Old Testament, or New Testament..We are ALL SHEEPS.


Feel free to drop me any portion of the Bible you need clarification or help.
I will be more than happy to work on it.


zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 11:18 AM)
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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Why are you quoting Hebrews 11:32-37 when the Bible is talking about the people at the old Testament?
Read Hebrews 11:13,"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
Last I check, you're alive right?
THESE ALL (the subsequent people).. and then the remainder of the examples..

You really need to learn how to read chronologically and not cherry pick ..
Hebrews 11 is talking about examples of FAITH.. and the older days prophets and people living their lives through faith..
Hebrews 11:29 ," By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned."
They here, obviously refers to the Isrealites.
This is continued up to v31.
And then You quote more on v32-v37, Again similarly, explaining examples of faith in addressing the people in verse 32 (Gedeon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, David, Samuel, Prophets)
So to your first question, How come ? is cos you dont read properly, thats all..
It closes by concluding at v39,"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Which Church or commentary teach you that you as a christian, MUST go through that???
READ V40! what does it say?
GOD.. PROVIDED SOME BETTER THING FOR US...
It clearly already say it will be different!

And then you quote 1 Corinthians 12:7.
Why dont you read the whole 1 Corinthians before you jump to this conclusion??
Read 1 Corinthians 12:4 ."Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.' DIVERSITIES.. DIFFERENT TYPE!
You quote v7, but dont even try to understand it..
It says.. ,"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
Already in v4-v6, its saying there will be different gifts, administrations, operations, but of the SAME GOD. .
and v7 says yes there will be gifts..
v8-9 it further explains the different possible types,"word of wisdom, word of knowledge, gifts of healing (FYI, go search on what healing means, dont jump into something conclusion you dont know).
and again up to v10 the different type of gifts, as was proven in ACTS when the disciples and apostles had those gifts..
and all the way down to v28-31, Again focus on v29,30,31..
Already Paul is asking YOU.. Are all Apostles? Are all Prophets? Are all Teachers?? This is again an obvious answer NO.
The conclusion of the matter is in v31! ,"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

So to your 2nd question.. We are ALL SAINTS.. We are still.. ALL ADDRESSED BY PAUL in his letters..
nothing in the above suggest otherwise..

Now that I answered BOTH your confusion, DONT FORGET TO READ THE BIBLE VERSES I SHOWED YOU AND NOT IGNORE THEM!


This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 12:35 PM
zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 01:00 PM)
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READ!
Dont reply for the sake of it.
I already replied you clearly.. You're NOT READING.. and there's no DOUBLE MINDED.. If any, its just you having double vision .. .
Question 1 - How come you and ALL other Christian "saints" are not doing or experiencing the above events mentioned in (likely.?) Paul's epistle/letter to the Hebrews or Jewish Christians at around 60AD. + personally addressed by apostle Paul in his letters/epistles dated in 1st century AD.
I already answered.. and if you need to learn how to read the Bible, I also inserted into it.. READ!
There was NO CHANGE to who the letter was addressed to.. but at that segment, Paul was referring to EXAMPLES!!
I wont copy my reply like you to make the whole thread messy, but PLEASE READ MY PREVIOUS REPLY!!

QUOTE(zanness @ Aug 11 2024, 09:57 PM)
To all christians who may be new, and learning about the Bible..

We do not pick and choose the Bible verses that suit us or do not suit us.. CONSISTENCY in interpreting the Bible..
To be honest, this is the first time I hear it but its okay.. based on this self-made rule of ,"some of the things Paul wrote to the Ephesians can be profitable to other Christian believers for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

That itself is inconsistent because
1. The Bible has clearly stated who they are addressed to .. unless written OTHERWISE another person it is addressed..we cant pick as we like what the Bible states and match it based on own liking or reasoning. 
2. If the Bible addresses it to SOMEONE ELSE, the Bible would have wrote it as well.. so again we dont pick and choose
i.e.The BIBLE does it according to the verses before or in the verse itself..

All letters were not just to the SAINTS but to all Christians (who are called to be SAINTS) according to the Bible in Ephesians and Romans..
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Question 2 - Are you and ALL of today's Christian "saints" the Romans or Ephesians or Hebrew Christians or Corinthians or Philippians or Galatians or etc personally addressed by apostle Paul in his letters/epistles dated in 1st century AD.?
I also ANSWERED ALREADY!
I said YES we are all SAINTS... Addressed by PAUL.. i did not say this portion is for OT prophets.. NOTHING in that text suggests so..


Now that I answered BOTH your confusion, TWICE! DONT FORGET TO READ THE BIBLE VERSES I SHOWED YOU AND NOT IGNORE THEM!


This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 01:51 PM
zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 02:25 PM)
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So, are you or the other Christian "saints" today also apostles or prophets, miracle workers, miracle healers or discerners of spirits since you say apostle Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians in 1st century AD also applies to ALL Christian "saints" in other times and other regions.? .......

QUOTE((zanness)
.... All letters were not just to the SAINTS but to all Christians (who are called to be SAINTS) according to the Bible in Ephesians and Romans..

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LOL.. which part of it have I EVER said we are apostles or prophets..
Get your understanding correct,
Is Paul a Christian, yes..
Is Paul an Apostle, yes..
Is Paul also a SAINT, YES OF COURSE!

Am I a Christian, Yes..
Am I a Saint.. Yes..
Am I an apostle.. of course not..

No where is it written for us to be Apostles or Prophets ...

V29 is a rhetorical question which in my previous reply ALREADY told you, NO...
Paul is exactly rhetorically asking you, NO

and V31, again, asking you to desire the best gifts, and there's a better way.. if you read on in 1 corinthians 13 you even learn what this is about..

so .. please .. Bible is there to read and understand.. not use one two verses to make claims..
zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 01:00 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Your claims
1. Ephesians 1:1-5 still out of context
- You have understanding problem? Ephesians is clearly for everyone as explained IN DETAIL (which you ignored and have no other verse to explain on )
- Hebrews 11, is FOR YOU and ME to understand the examples. Please read my reply on reading the Bible as I shared.

2. No la, only God can decide who are the true saints, eg will you or me or other Christians today lose faith in Christ or keep the faith/be faithful to Christ until death or etc.?
You got any Bible verse to substantiate this? your opinion and imagination?
I got and GAVE YOU MULTIPLE Bible verses to tell you, we are called to be Saints..

3. Hebrews 11 only for OT? not for SAINTS? Double Minded?
Like I said, the only thing thats double is your vision.
Hebrews 11, are examples quoted for SAINTS.. Nothing suggests that it is wrong. Did you even read what I said about how the Bible or the letters are being addressed?
I begin to doubt if its the language that you have difficulty understanding.

zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 08:12 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 05:18 PM)
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Recap..
1. Ephesians 1:1 is clear - SAINTS AND FAITHFUL
I've explained to you, it is two groups through ORIGINAL BIBLE LANGUAGE - IGNORED
I've showed you concrete bible verse we are SAINTS, Romans 1:7, Ephesians 2:19 - IGNORED
The only thing you did was throw in confusion by saying
Hebrews 11 - Explained, there's nothing wrong that OT examples given TO SAINTS.. - UNDERSTANDING PROBLEM
, 1 Corinthians 12, - Explained - IGNORED

2. Ephesians 1:4-5 is clear - Chosen us, Predestined us.. Unless your reading and understanding has problem, I suggest you try to digest what these verses are saying and not ignore them.
You throw in multiple attempts with various verses to build your point but fail, and resort to your own conclusion with no explanation, this is take out of context.
To recap this is to state out another LONG LIST of all the verses i explained to you 2 weeks ago. I Wont go there but i would advice you try and clear out your plate first.. because you have ignored so many and just throw smoke bombs one after another

3. 1 Timothy 4, we've gone through this.. until you clear out even the simplest item 1, then i will slowly work on your confusion and blindness on item 2 and 3. But before that, dont try to confuse yourself and others by going all around different topics just because the Bible showed you the truth..


zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 06:27 PM)
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Quoting you; ... Am I a Saint.. Yes..

The BIG question is, will you or me or other Christians today remain a "saint" and be faithful until death, eg not lose faith in Christ by departing from the faith, casting off our first faith or having our faith suffer shipwreck or etc.?

PHILIPPIANS.2: = 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure....

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16 holding fast the word of life, .... 

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The above "word of life" or Scripture may be "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, " for you, me and other Christians today. (- 2TIMOTHY.3:16)
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this is a similar topic with item 3 as my previous reply.
I'm sorry but to avoid us from going in circles and you avoiding the Bible proving you wrong..
I would suggest, you resolve your problems one at a time..

And dont worry, im not avoiding you or trying to delete your comments.. I dont need to even try, and when I start reading whatever verses you attempt to throw in, the answer always comes out by itself..

Im trying to help others so you dont go around spreading false doctrines and hopefully, you can grow yourself by reading the Bible, not commentaries..

Resolve your problem with understanding the Bible first before you want to change the topics..
zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 08:27 PM)
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Quoting and resizing for the record.
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I would suggest you tackle the problems you have, than questioning my track record..

As proven and being said consistently, i only intend to have NON BIBLE related matters removed, particularly those who have no respect to Christianity and ridicule it..

I dont reply for the sake of it.. i actually do read.. digest, and try to understand your confusion..

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 08:38 PM
zanness
post Aug 12 2024, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Aug 12 2024, 09:15 PM)
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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Repost as a reminder, .......
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Again, my track record proves right, anything non Bible related
Through the last 2 weeks, you’ve not even proven once I misinterpreted
And instead of addressing your errors, you ignore, distract, and confuse by throwing in another topic

Your claims
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I would advice you to clear your confusion and address it before you create distractions with another matter just because the Bible proved you wrong in one.

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 13 2024, 06:57 AM
zanness
post Aug 13 2024, 07:25 PM

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It is very easy to be confused with various versions of the Bible. It is already well expected, there will be more false prophets as we approach nearer to rapture. But for new Christians, and those seasoned Christians, as long as we base everything on the Bible, we will NEVER go wrong.
One of the few confusions in recent weeks is Philippians 2:12.
Let’s once and for all dive deep into this verse.. and have a full understanding.
Philippians 2:12,” "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."


Understanding “Work out your own salvation”
When one reads this, it can only imply two ways..
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“work out your own salvation” is a very straightforward statement.
Here lies the confusion

1. Salvation proven by works
2. Salvation obtained by works
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Let me show you from the Bible why (1) is correct, not (2)
1. Salvation proven by works

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A person’s faith, is JUSTIFIED by his works. In other words, the litmus test if a person is truly saved, is to see if he/she has works.
We are all identified by the good works that we do, because that was the reason God chose us to be saved in Christ Jesus.
2. Salvation obtained by works
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And many more verses.. we can NEVER obtain salvation by works..

After we have completed the portion of “Work out your own salvation”, lets understand further on "FEAR AND TREMBLING.”
Allow me to share some verses from the Bible that tells you about FEAR AND TREMBLING.
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What are these related to "proving your salvation" with FEAR and TREMBLING?
The few main reasons to FEAR in the Bible;-
A. Fear God to learn more of Him.
B. Fear God in keeping His commandments
C. Fear God because God is Holy and Almighty.
In Philippians 2:12, it is ©Fear and Trembling because GOD is Holy and Almighty.
It has been explained even before that verse.
Observe Philippians 2:11,12,” And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore,

 salvation with fear and trembling”

This is also similar as in the above example 1 Corinthians 2:1,3,”
., declaring unto you the testimony of God.”,”And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling”
Was Paul losing his salvation in 1 Corinthians 2:1 to be fearful and trembling? NO.
It was because God is Holy.

Conclusion
Our salvation, has always been predestined. We are predestined to have saving faith in Christ Jesus. And we will not lose our salvation.
So does it mean, we can SIN all the time? Not do any good works?
NO
Romans 6:1-2,” What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
Ephesians 2:10,” For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

This clearly mentions, if you are dead to sin, you do not live in sin. You cant. The ONLY reason you are able to, is because you are NOT DEAD TO SIN, you are NOT SAVED.
And we are predestined to NOT LIVE in sin, but unto GOOD WORKS, and walk in them.









zanness
post Aug 13 2024, 09:34 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Aug 13 2024, 08:23 PM)
that come to an interesting question, do you still sin?
*
Self-explanatory answer
1 John 1:8-10,"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1 John 2:1-2,"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Unlike the Catholics who have believe in constant forgiveness of sins and some Protestants (obviously due to the where they originated from), the Bible has made it very clear...

and there are many many more verses on this..

and as for the Reddit
Not a single Bible verse to substantiate it.. pick your poison.. opinions or direct verses from the Bible
QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Aug 13 2024, 08:38 PM)


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



-Faith by fire from reddit
*
zanness
post Aug 13 2024, 09:38 PM

On my way
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Joined: Aug 2010


QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Aug 13 2024, 09:36 PM)
so are you still sinning?
*
I still sin.. but I try to sin less..
I am still guilty of sin

Romans 7:18-19,"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do"

Galations 5:17," For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 13 2024, 09:39 PM
zanness
post Aug 13 2024, 10:07 PM

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This is called discussion..
And to begin with, I'm in no way affiliated to Calvinism.. in case you want to start googling for ways of error..

QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Aug 13 2024, 09:40 PM)
The Fallacy of Predestination - The Oops of Calvinism

The premise of predestination says that before you are out of your mother’s womb you are either eternally saved or you are eternally lost. Your life, decisions and self determination has nothing to do with it. It’s great if you are, and simply unfortunate if you aren’t.
If predestination is true, then the concept of choice is a cruel deception.
If predestination is true then the thought of being a free moral agent is only a pretense, and reaching out to fallen man is simply an exercise in religious recital.
If predestination is true, then why preach the gospel to anyone? We are only stirring up false hope. Why the masquerade unless it is just some misdirected sadistic tease to those who really can’t have it anyway?
Under the doctrine of predestination, the preaching of the gospel is cruel for it dangles a mirage of the river of life in front of those who are dying of thirst but can never partake of its stream.
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There are only two significant passages that address this subject of predestination and that is Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:3-14. Both of them are taken out of context by the Calvinist doctrine.
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These scriptures specifically refer to a people group, not to individual people.
What we see here is that God determined that he was going to have a people for himself, a Body. It is preplanned and predestined to happen. But it is misguided to take from these passages to suggest that he had selected “individuals to be saved” and “individuals to be lost”.
If predestination is true, then the term, “whosoever” from John 3:16 is a lie.
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The second is based on the thought that Jesus knew what was in the heart of all men and thereby knows in advance whether a man will be saved or lost.
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-Dr. Jerry Edmon
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This is a long text, of which are mixed with opinions and verses, some of which I agree , some of which i do not.
For example,
If predestination is true then the thought of being a free moral agent is only a pretense...etc..
- It is not true. Bible clearly mentioned we are saved to GOOD WORKS.. there is a mission and purpose
- It is also not true that it is simply a exercise in a religious recital as the Bible clearly mentions, as Christians, we need to do God's will..
The pretext that Romans 8:29 is for SELECTED group of people,
- is unfounded.. The Bible did not state it so.. in fact it was clear in Romans who it was written for.

That said, predestined is always complex because it is something we do not understand fully but can only imagine..
The second school of thought is interesting and I partially agree, Jesus knew what is in the heart of men..
Now here's where it gets interesting...
The few rule of thumb is that we know the
1. BIBLE does not contradict itself.
2. Everything in the BIBLE is true..

- Now we say John 3:16, "WHOMSOEVER"
- Multiple places in the Bible clearly refers to 'everyone who hath an ear, let him hear' and salvation is freely given to anyone who would believe in it..
- However, again, rule no.1 , the BIBLE does not contradict itself.

And due to that, in conclusion, the most likely outcome given the rules is that both predestined and free will co-exist.

Let's take the rich man and Lazarus for context.
I believe the rich man was predestined to go to hell and Lazarus (Abraham's Bosom).
But then again, it was the rich man's free will to live the way he wanted to, and Lazarus' to live faithful and God-fearing..
Disclaimer, this is not written in the Bible but is deduced based on the Bible verses

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 13 2024, 10:09 PM

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