well electric come from reneweable source too, but unfortunately oil/coal are being used because its the cheapest

hydrogen production comes from fossil fuel lah
deswai i laugh at pipul thinks hydrogen is "super clean fuel" haha

As of 2020, the majority of hydrogen (∼95%) is produced from fossil fuels by steam reforming or partial oxidation of methane and coal gasification with only a small quantity by other routes such as biomass gasification or electrolysis of water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel

They can always switch to other source of power easier if the driver is powered by the rail...

It differs from country to country. Some have different primary source of power. Like some european countries are almost fully renewable. Some other countries are getting there.

Depends on the political willpower of the government as economies (thus incentives) lean differently.
These countries can have very green hydrogen if produced using electrolysis. We can go that way too and reduce on dependence on coal (and its price fluctuations). But we have an oil and gas industry to support so.....

can just put a hydrogen powerplant anywhere near the station then just connect the power

but this train requires one middle car to be "sacrificed" just to store the hydrogen fuels.. seems just like an advertisement for hydrogen fuel if anything else..

this.

a big thumbs up


many didnt know Hydrogen car = Hybrid = EV+ petrol or EV+hydrogen


for heavy vehicle, it is still alright.

for normal cars, your hydrogen car is similar to honda/toyota hybrid = EV+ hydrogen to charge the battery.

what is so different?

petrol = direct use to burn/combust
hydrogen you need to compress from factory, lorry also , even the hydrogen station.

the cost to build hydrogen station is 5 times of petrol station, and the cost to maintain hydrogen station is 4 times.

oh you will carry hydrogen tank that is highly compressed in your car.



why heavy vehicle will make sense?

because they dont have smoke/haze/smog like our diesel powered bus kilang.

This post has been edited by -H[20]-: Sep 22 2022, 11:56 AM

You are missing the point, the trains are designed to replace diesel trains, so it is not only used for dedicated short rails but on other raillines that isn't feasible install long length electrical supply lines. It's build by swiss for export too.

if you read the article it has a range of 500 miles, so imagine it can run from johor to thailand

This post has been edited by terradrive: Sep 22 2022, 11:58 AM

hydrogen car
burn fossil -> electricity -> electrolysis

vs

EV
burn fossil -> electricity

why need extra step?


hydrogen need to stay compressed during transport .

it even need to stay compressed when it is in your car.

there is a reason honda stopped development hydrogen fuel cell for car


petrol is a better substitute than hydrogen

Not only stay compressed, but stay at extremely low temperature as well.

Means energy is consumed even if not moving at all.

most H2 produced industrially is from breaking down natural gas CH4, instead of electrolysis of H20.

So, using H2 now is actually less environmentally friendly than burning LNG directly, especially when we are talking about trains where you have a fix line that you can electrify.

Cars, different story. H2 to replace Petrol.
but train, memang sohai

but to create H2 also requires power. This is the point that elon musk rubbish h2 tech.


why wanna waste electicity to produce hydrogen for the sake of convenience of refueling at the gas station when u can have electric car.

And how do you get hydrogen?

hydrogen to produce electricity to power electric motor.

waiting for the time that we can use seawater to power our cars/planes/trains/bombs

I am saying it depends on country.

In those countries that I listed earlier, it is solar/wind/whatever renewable -> hydrogen -> electricity

Fossil fuels are popular because
a) It is super dense source of energy when you measure in terms of J/kg
b) We have literally built our world infrastructure around it. In fact entire cities have been built around its activities whether its mining or processing
c) It is very very mature. The processes around it are more than 90% mature. Refineries, petrol pumps and even engines have barely changed since world war II
d) There is a lot of MONEY and hence political will fuelled by it. Imagine if an entire city like Miri or Port Dickson or Pengerang goes bust because nobody buying the output.

Even if you are having a large fossil fuel plant to produce power to make hydrogen, it is actually more efficient because mass produced power is more efficient than that in your engine. The engine in your car (though I love the sound and feel of it) sucks as a energy converter. Most of them are less than 50% efficient in energy conversion. The typical electric motor can easily do 80% and above. And it can do it across a wider operational range meaning most of the time.

from movie Oblivion. like this?

read ur own article properly. those trains are coming in 2027 per mou, they are not "here" yet.

the first hydrogen train in service has already been available and operational in Germany since last month.

also for all those ppl keep trying to compare electric vs hydrogen. its all about cost.

it is way cheaper to make the train use something else and put refueling points along the way, than building an electric line all along the railway line, especially when there is no other reason to run wires in the middle of nowhere. you also have to consider building the infrastructure to power and maintain the electricity across the middle of nowhere over long distances. not only save on infrastructure building costs but also save on maintenance costs. you can also retrofit existing diesel trains to use hydrogen, making it even cheaper.

also yall please read your own wiki articles. as per the wiki, yes currently majority of hydrogen fuel is made by using fossil fuels. But also per that same wiki article, there are alternative methods to make hydrogen that dont use fossil fuels, such as electrolysis powered by cleaner energy. in fact one of the largest hydrogen fuel producer is already using clean energy, also mentioned in THAT SAME WIKI ARTICLE. we just need time to convert the majority of production to clean energy. You think humans can do miracles? overnight the world is saved?

you guys know one miracle i wish i had? I wish i can convert all the shitty ppl here in this /k thread so that they READ THEIR OWN LINKS THOROUGHLY first before posting on the internet and making a fool of themselves.

This post has been edited by thewan: Sep 23 2022, 01:05 AM

U have been greenwashed la
Cheapest way to obtain hydrogen from where??

Steam methane reforming, which uses natural gas also.
95% hydrogen in the world is produced using fossil fuel

Tok kok, SAME song

From what this unker heard, Hydrogen kebabom more hantam kick that nuclear.

Wonder how crazy amazing that could be.

To produce hydrogen, the clean way use electrolysis.
Electrolysis uses electricity
So where the electricity come from? Said here clean energy

Then, why not use electric engine directly powered by clean energy? Why waste money in expensive high pressure tanks and only certain place to pump it when u can charge ur car at home if electric?