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 Anticipation is the key, sam ke ting case

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staind
post Apr 15 2022, 10:51 PM

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Tnb Replace light bulb no done safely driver can sue back.

Motorcycle got backlight. Normal bicycle also got back reflectance?

Mat lajak got what? Brake pad pun tak ada brother

This post has been edited by staind: Apr 15 2022, 10:51 PM
Cyberbullies
post Apr 15 2022, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(bani_prime @ Apr 15 2022, 09:29 PM)
The presence of the boys on the road is also wrong. But does it change anything if we replace the boys with ordinarly motorcycle, ordinary pedestrian, or romobongan orang? or TNB replace bulp There is no law saying that these people cant be presence on the road or the corner of highway. So a responsible driver must always able to anticipate dangerous location n do what is necessary , whatever preventive measure to prevent accident. This is in my personal opinion, the basis of the judge reasoning on the case (or course tambah dengan statement inconsistentcies like tiba2 ada new version of another car hit the kid)
*
Threads like this need to stop lmao. The correct word is "foreseeability" instead of "anticipation" btw.

The key element here is "recklessness" or "gross negligence", as per s. 41(1) of the RTA 1987.

To satisfy this, the driver would have to have acted in a way that showed that he/she does not care about the danger or the effect his/her behaviour will have on other road users.

To expect a driver to foresee something impossible like the presence of another road user who doesn't use any lighting at 3AM is simply illogical.

Reasonable man test: Would a reasonable person have anticipated that there would a group of people doing illegal racing on 3AM without lighting and therefore would have acted more carefully?

If your answer is no, then it means that you couldn't even prove the case on the balance of probabilities, much less beyond reasonable doubt.

"In the context of road traffic accidents, this principle may be taken to mean that the user of the road is not bound to guard against every conceivable eventuality, but only against such eventualities that a reasonable man ought to foresee as being within the ordinary range of human experiences." (Fardon v Harcourt-Rivington (1932) 146 LT 391 at 392).

And to be fair, she would have definitely reacted in a better way had it been any other vehicle that had sufficient lighting. This includes TNB personnel who would have definitely provided sufficient warning cones with lighting.

Again it's "recklessness" we are talking about. While contributory negligence isn't applicable to criminal cases in Malaysia, to satisfy the element of "recklessness", you would usually have to prove that it's 99% the fault of the accused.

This post has been edited by Cyberbullies: Apr 15 2022, 11:07 PM
ZeaXG
post Apr 15 2022, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(pandah @ Apr 15 2022, 10:18 PM)
So now anecdotal claim is more important?

Miros examination can buang ke laut?

The lajak, lawan arus, mabuk etc make a surprise entry and fck up the traffic which cause the accident means you should just slow down like turtle and if still langgar means you did not slow down enough and should masuk jail?

a 30km/h car need 1 second to move more than 8 meters.

so if you have a great eyesight and great reflex to floor the brake after 1 second, the car is already 8meters away.

there is no magic to stop immediately.

now don't tell me should drive at 20 or 10 km/h.
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BANI SAY DRIVE 1 METER STOP LOOK LEFT LOOK RIGHT CONTINUE 1 METER STOP LOOK LEFT LOOK RIGHT. VERY SAFE LIDDAT
cursetheroad01
post Apr 15 2022, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:45 PM)
you know, what happened at high court is an appeal. the judge only look at fact and evidence during lower court trial.

so you tell me, where the dangerous driving coming from?
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From majistret court summary
QUOTE
Menurut SP46, sebanyak 29 laporan polis diterima daripada pengadu sendiri, mangsa kemalangan sendiri, waris-waris mangsa dan saksi-saksi yang nampak kemalangan. Kesemua pengadu laporan polis telah dipanggil untuk rakam percakapan dan memberi keterangan dalam membantu siasatan untuk mendapat kesahihan bagaimana kemalangan berlaku. Hasil siasatan SP46 adalah sebelum kemalangan berlaku OKT sedang memandu motorkar di lorong tengah dan kemudiannya gagal mengawal motorkarnya lalu beralih ke lorong kiri dan kemudian merempuh mangsa yang pertama (SP1) dan kemudian terbabas ke kiri jalan lalu melanggar kumpulan basikal berada di tepi kiri jalan tersebut.

Hasil siasatan SP46 adalah kemalangan berlaku dan berpunca daripada sikap OKT yang gagal mengawal motorkar dan tidak memberikan penumpuan semasa memandu serta gagal mengawal jarak penglihatan yang juga dipercayai telah memandu motorkar dengan laju dan melulu di mana tempat kejadian terdapat jalan berbukit yang sepatutnya OKT lebih berhati-hati bagi mengelakkan berlaku kemalangan yang sepatutnya mesti perlahankan motorkar yang dipandu. Di atas kecuaian sikap OKT yang mana gagal mengawal keadaan tersebut menyebabkan berlakunya kemalangan, disebabkan itu OKT telah gagal mengawal dan merempuh sekumpulan remaja berbasikal yang mengakibatkan kematian 8 remaja dan 8 lagi cedera parah.


I refrain from commenting magistrate court decision in her not guilty despite driving dangerously.
Just glad a shitty driver is off the road for 6 years.
Taking down another 8 road abusers along with her is just the icing.
desmond2020
post Apr 15 2022, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:57 PM)
From majistret court summary
I refrain from commenting magistrate court decision in her not guilty despite driving dangerously.
Just glad a shitty driver is off the road for 6 years.
Taking down another 8 road abusers along with her is just the icing.
*
eh dude, that is hasil siasatan, court doesn't need to agree with hasil siasatan polis, else what we need court for?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Apr 15 2022, 10:59 PM
Ray2021
post Apr 15 2022, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:44 PM)
Ask the high court judge la.
High court haven't released any documentation yet.

Regardless, her driving resulted in death.
If that's not dangerous, i hope I'll continue to never get to interact with shitty drivers like you and her.
And hopefully putting dangerous drivers off the road for a long time like this one becomes a norm.
*
So you have not come across any evidence of reckless driving and dispute the PDRM officer’s testimony and independent expert witness findings (not disputed by High Court in its summary decision).

Regardless and tak kisah sums up shitty and dangerous drivers like yourself.
WaCKy-Angel
post Apr 15 2022, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:57 PM)
From majistret court summary
I refrain from commenting magistrate court decision in her not guilty despite driving dangerously.
Just glad a shitty driver is off the road for 6 years.
Taking down another 8 road abusers along with her is just the icing.
*
This is new. What was the reason she "gagal mengawal motokar"?
Car problem?
phantomash
post Apr 15 2022, 11:02 PM

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hi bani,

fuck you if you are even suggesting that we need to anticipate nyamuk lajak in the highway.
cursetheroad01
post Apr 15 2022, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:59 PM)
eh dude, that is hasil siasatan, court doesn't need to agree with hasil siasatan polis, else what we need court for?
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And that's why the case was brought to a higher court
And justice prevailed
desmond2020
post Apr 15 2022, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Apr 15 2022, 11:03 PM)
And that's why the case was brought to a higher court
And justice prevailed
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let see on appeal court.

don't cry yo
TSbani_prime
post Apr 15 2022, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(Cyberbullies @ Apr 15 2022, 10:54 PM)
Threads like this need to stop lmao.

The key element here is "recklessness" or "gross negligence", as per s. 41(1) of the RTA 1987.

To satisfy this, the driver would have to have acted in a way that showed that he/she does not care about the danger or the effect his/her behaviour will have on other road users.

To expect a driver to anticipate something impossible like the presence of another road user who doesn't use any lighting at 3AM is simply illogical.

Reasonable man test: Would a reasonable person have anticipated that there would a group of people doing illegal racing on 3AM without lighting and therefore would have acted more carefully?

If your answer is no, then it means that you couldn't even prove the case on the balance of probabilities, much less beyond reasonable doubt.

And to be fair, she would have definitely reacted in a better way had it been any other vehicle that had sufficient lighting. This includes TNB personnel who would have definitely provided sufficient warning cones with lighting.

Again it's "recklessness" we are talking about. While contributory negligence isn't applicable to criminal cases in Malaysia, to satisfy the element of "recklessness", you would usually have to prove that it's 99% the fault of the accused.
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Dont care...the POINT is are at the corner, n u cant anticipate what in front of u. Ur visibility already affected. U know u cant see what in front, still mau speeding? 50 km/hr at corner is speedlah

Lain cerita if u are in straight road, where u can see everything in front of u

This scenario also applied in hilly road, where ur visitbility already affected n cant see whats will be in front of u

Do u know how many broken car that parked beside the road kena hit? All because no anticipation
TrialGone
post Apr 15 2022, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:35 PM)
You missed the point where she drove dangerously.
Nothing excuses her from driving dangerously.
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.................sorry but driving 50km/hr on a half empty "highway" road at 3am in the morning is hardly against the rule.

Is 50km/hr too high or something in KL that I dont know of?
r2t2
post Apr 15 2022, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:44 PM)
Ask the high court judge la.
High court haven't released any documentation yet.

Regardless, her driving resulted in death.
If that's not dangerous, i hope I'll continue to never get to interact with shitty drivers like you and her.
And hopefully putting dangerous drivers off the road for a long time like this one becomes a norm.
*
This kind of previous magistrate court documentation? Partial MIROS report.

https://twitter.com/Nash_ANJ/status/1514124190672031744

Me no clever enuf to interpret the whole technical report (not complete screenshots); but what I can get is, the below 50km/hr speed isn't the main factor? The modded bicycles (motorbike disc brake) also contributed to the impact inertia?

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

cursetheroad01
post Apr 15 2022, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(Ray2021 @ Apr 15 2022, 10:59 PM)
So you have not come across any evidence of reckless driving and dispute the PDRM officer’s testimony and independent expert witness findings (not disputed by High Court in its summary decision).

Regardless and tak kisah sums up shitty and dangerous drivers like yourself.
*
The officers investigation supports her being reckless.
Independent expert findings are still just a piece of puzzle, among every other pieces, which non of us are privy to.

It seems like it's you who are presumptive in your opinion.
The disregard for fact checking and integrity is also, yours.
Good job though deducing my driving skills out of a wrong presumption, of your own even.
What a muppet. Playing yourself to this degree.

This post has been edited by cursetheroad01: Apr 15 2022, 11:18 PM
TrialGone
post Apr 15 2022, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ Apr 15 2022, 11:01 PM)
This is new. What was the reason she "gagal mengawal motokar"?
Car problem?
*
The thing is, if everything happen too fast, likely she wont remember every detail.

Example: Imagine you driving the car, maybe hit the body of one the lanjak kids (which probably got knocked by another car), car spun out of control hitting other kids on the road as well. At that moment if people start asking you how fast you driving, is it dark or visible, describe how you first hit the lanjak, she probably wont remember much cause I definitely wouldn't if shocked.

There's a lot of detail in this case we dont know about. But I think the judges also just make waaay too many assumption that she is driving dangerously. In this case, shouldn't it be innocence until proven guilty?

Anyway, I probably be putting stocks into dashcam companies after this. Brb.

This post has been edited by TrialGone: Apr 15 2022, 11:18 PM
WaCKy-Angel
post Apr 15 2022, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Apr 15 2022, 11:17 PM)
The thing is, if everything happen too fast, likely she wont remember every detail.

Example: Imagine you driving the car, maybe hit the body of one the lanjak kids (which probably got knocked by another car), car spun out of control hitting other kids on the road as well. At that moment if people start asking you how fast you driving, is it dark or visible, describe how you first hit the lanjak, she probably wont remember much cause I definitely wouldn't if shocked.

There's a lot of detail in this case we dont know about. But I think the judges also just make waaay too many assumption that she is driving dangerously. In this case, shouldn't it be innocence until proven guilty?

Anyway, I probably be putting stocks into dashcam companies after this. Brb.
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Deswai dashcam is important yooo
TSbani_prime
post Apr 15 2022, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ Apr 15 2022, 11:19 PM)
Deswai dashcam is important yooo
*
Agreed....story telling can be challenged
cursetheroad01
post Apr 15 2022, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(r2t2 @ Apr 15 2022, 11:11 PM)
This kind of previous magistrate court documentation? Partial MIROS report.

https://twitter.com/Nash_ANJ/status/1514124190672031744

Me no clever enuf to interpret the whole technical report (not complete screenshots); but what I can get is, the below 50km/hr speed isn't the main factor? The modded bicycles (motorbike disc brake) also contributed to the impact inertia?

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
It just shows the court was so fixated to the speed of travel and the visibility (or non visibility) of/from the lady's car.
Forgetting the fact that 8 kids died from the supposed "low speed" impact.

And the high court got it right.

This post has been edited by cursetheroad01: Apr 15 2022, 11:27 PM
Ray2021
post Apr 15 2022, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Apr 15 2022, 11:16 PM)
The officers investigation supports her being reckless.
Independent expert findings are still just a piece of puzzle, among every other pieces, which non of us are privy to.

It seems like it's you who are presumptive in your opinion.
The disregard for fact checking and integrity is also, yours.
Good job though deducing my driving skills out of a wrong presumption, of your own even.
What a muppet. Playing yourself to this degree.
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Gotcha. Did you read the judgement and the officers in verbatim clarification. No right. Too malas right.

Here do practice what you preach and do not be a muppet hypocrite ok.

“Stop making this personal and getting butthurt about something not related to you or within your control.

Fuckin get a life …”

QUOTE(AlexRoss27 @ Apr 13 2022, 09:59 PM)
You can throw all that opinion out the window, it all boils down to the law and the judicial system. The first 2 judges found her not guilty and the third did, now her lawyer will appeal and we wait and see.

Stop making this personal and getting butthurt about something not related to you or within your control.

Fuckin get a life guys….
*
ykj
post Apr 15 2022, 11:32 PM

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