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 Anticipation is the key, sam ke ting case

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SUSjvcpcv55
post Apr 16 2022, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(vincent2197 @ Apr 16 2022, 10:10 AM)
I didn't say drive within speed limit means reckless, I said even driving within speed limit can still be reckless in certain circumstances.

While you can say that what amounts to reckless is open to debate, ultimately it will be up to the court to determine on a case to case basis.

This case you shared is a civil case, where the plaintiff suffered losses because of the negligence of NSH, whereas the present one is a criminal case.

Anyway, my point is that when a reasonable driver see obstruction ahead they will slow down despite what the speed limit says, if a driver never slow down and swerved at last minute and cause casualty to other road user, that is reckless driving despite driving within speed limit.

The argument in SKT's case is that the so called obstruction could not be easily detectable probably because of the angle of the road, road brightness, the bicycle group not wearing bright shirt etc. In such a situation just how slow you need to drive to not be reckless is really unclear, hence the dissatisfaction of the judgment by many of us.
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criminal or civil case
it still has the same obstacle on road,
where the driver fails to control the car and "reckless" knock into it.

if your argument stand, then NSH will not need to pay compensation as SKT kes she is bearing 100% responsibility.


the obstructions are 40+ wild animals scattering on the road,
NOT 1 but 40+
i doubt there is enough room for her car to squeeze past.
have you ever calculated reasonable driver driving at 50km/h needs how long stopping distance to stop the car?


SUSjvcpcv55
post Apr 16 2022, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(Azran1979 @ Apr 16 2022, 07:06 PM)
yes. correct.

https://www.bharian.com.my/berita/nasional/...alam-kemalangan

so this is not reckless driving to you. coz 9 "wild animals" stop by the roadside.
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great to know 3 cars stop at lorong kecemasan and not kawasan rehat,
any idea what is their "kecemasan"?

BTW do you know that cars are legally allowed to drive on highways and bicycles are not allowed ?
SUSjvcpcv55
post Apr 16 2022, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(Namelessone1973 @ Apr 16 2022, 11:47 AM)
Most are relying on the findings of the previous trial where the magistrate judge let her go. Let me repeat again.

1. No alcohol, drugs or handphone. This is a fact from police investigation. The story of the kids saying they saw her playing with handphones was already dismissed.

2. Speed of her vehicle is between 55 to 75. It's not her story but based on the MIROS investigation report.

3. The place is dark hilly and there is no way she can avoid hitting the kids because there were just too many of them. This is not her story but facts as all those were verified during the last trial.

It is strange that the current trial dismiss all these findings and just come to conclusions that she ought to slow down because she should anticipate there are danger up ahead. It really sounds absurd as if she must have spider sense to detect danger.

On her bringing up a new story about another car, even if she lied it does not invalidate the earlier 3 evidence.

Why was the judge not judging base on evidence but based on what she ought to do and come up with reckless driving.
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spider sense
any idea where can find that spider that bites spiderman??
can make billions by selling its bites to Malaysia drivers

vincent2197
post Apr 16 2022, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(jvcpcv55 @ Apr 16 2022, 10:27 PM)
criminal or civil case
it still has the same obstacle on road,
where the driver fails to control the car and "reckless" knock into it.

if your argument stand, then NSH will not need to pay compensation as SKT kes she is bearing 100% responsibility.
the obstructions are 40+ wild animals scattering on the road,
NOT 1 but 40+
i doubt there is enough room for her car to squeeze past.
have you ever calculated reasonable driver driving at 50km/h needs how long stopping distance to stop the car?
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Criminal case like SKT focuses on the driver, whereas the civil case focuses on the company maintaining the road. In SKT case the main question is whether SKT was reckless, in NSH case the driver was the one bringing the suit and NSH did not argue that the driver was reckless.

My argument is simply that a driver needs to drive reasonably and respond to road conditions appropriately, but then there are times when you drive reasonably but still can run into something because whatever that suddenly appears does not give you enough reaction time. I didn't meant that if you drive reasonably therefore you won't hit anything, because if that is the case then every time road accident happens driver will be always at fault. Without knowing the detailed facts of the cases, I believe that in the NSH case the sudden appearance of the cow didn't give the driver enough reaction time to avoid it, and that was probably what happened in SKT's case too. Without the High Court's grounds of judgment I really cannot understand what makes the court came to such conclusion that there was recklessness despite the Magistrate Court's finding.




itekderp
post Apr 16 2022, 11:10 PM

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All the plotek in this forum. Diam la, you guys never drive is it. When you are on the road you are handling a heavy machinery capable of causing damage and death. So just be aware at ALL times and learn to anticipate in advance the unexpected. That is the responsibility of ALL road users.

So can diam a bit kah. Don’t show your stupidity so much, argue and politicize for no reason
Azran1979
post Apr 17 2022, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(jvcpcv55 @ Apr 16 2022, 10:34 PM)
great to know 3 cars stop at lorong kecemasan and not kawasan rehat,
any idea what is their "kecemasan"?

BTW do you know that cars are legally allowed to drive on highways and bicycles are not allowed ?
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which act says bicycle not allowed?

do you know even trishaw and kereta lembu is legally allowed?
diffyhelman2
post Apr 17 2022, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(Azran1979 @ Apr 16 2022, 09:20 PM)
8 person die is not prooof of negligence and reckless driving
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you have misdirected yourself.

QUOTE
The essence of the charge against the appellant was dangerous or reckless driving. Driving is
not necessarily reckless or dangerous because it leads to fatal consequences but guilt could
only ensure if it is proven that the driving was reckless and dangerous. The charge is not
one of causing death, but of driving dangerously or recklessly. The learned magistrate had
obviously failed to direct his mind to the law in this case and had been unduly influenced
by the fact that there had been a death
. This was a non-direction which amounted to a
misdirection. It is the duty of the appellate court to intervene in a case where the trial court
had fundamentally misdirected itself, that one may safely say that no reasonable court which
had properly directed itself and asked the correct questions would have arrived at the same
conclusion

diffyhelman2
post Apr 17 2022, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(vincent2197 @ Apr 16 2022, 11:28 AM)
I don't think you understand the law or at least you didn't make it clear enough. For the offence SKT is being charged with, namely s.41 of the Road Traffic Act 1987 causing death by reckless or dangerous driving, causing death AND reckless or dangerous driving are two separate requirements to be proven by the prosecution. The way you are saying is that because SKT caused death, therefore she was reckless. That is simply incorrect because this would presume guilt just because of death. Why have to go through all witnesses' testimony and expert investigations etc. if by virtue of death one is said to be reckless?
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almost 99% of the people including some so called lawyer 79 here seems to be making this mistake. Its as if what the magistrate used as case law from a now Federal judge's previous ruling is just her opinion.
t3n
post Apr 17 2022, 01:24 AM

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Wanna ask.. if someone driving opposite lane and i accidentally bang him.. its my fault?
bai1101
post Apr 17 2022, 01:34 AM

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that make me feel like the judge say u been charge for miss slaughtering because

i know u r in panic for self defense when u being rapped but u should chose less legal weapon when defense instead of lethal weapon that cause death to criminal

This post has been edited by bai1101: Apr 17 2022, 01:35 AM
TSbani_prime
post Apr 17 2022, 05:48 AM

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QUOTE(t3n @ Apr 17 2022, 01:24 AM)
Wanna ask.. if someone driving opposite lane and i accidentally bang him.. its my fault?
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Both are judged accordingly
Even though the driver that drive in opposite lane is fault.
They also will look into your standard of driving too. If ur standard of driving is good u innocent
azbro
post Apr 17 2022, 05:55 AM

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QUOTE(t3n @ Apr 17 2022, 01:24 AM)
Wanna ask.. if someone driving opposite lane and i accidentally bang him.. its my fault?
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The logic is

Whatever I did, the courts will decide

If not satisfied, then go to a higher court, still not satisfied, go highest.


Azran1979
post Apr 17 2022, 06:08 AM

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QUOTE(itekderp @ Apr 16 2022, 11:10 PM)
All the plotek in this forum. Diam la, you guys never drive is it. When you are on the road you are handling a heavy machinery capable of causing damage and death. So just be aware at ALL times and learn to anticipate in advance the unexpected. That is the responsibility of ALL road users.

So can diam a bit kah. Don’t show your stupidity so much, argue and politicize for no reason
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yes agree. this people think its their road they can drive as their father head.

kids playing bike is different story. YOU driving recklessly is another story.

simple only but people make an issue out of a non issue.
TSbani_prime
post Apr 17 2022, 06:12 AM

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QUOTE(Azran1979 @ Apr 17 2022, 06:08 AM)
yes agree. this people think its their road they can drive as their father head.

kids playing bike is different story. YOU driving recklessly is another story.

simple only but people make an issue out of a non issue.
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People made issue because their hate on rempit or lajak gang. There is some element of racial stereotype too

If we replace that bike with motorbike, car, pedestrian, same shit happen also. But because lajak or rempit are involved, thing change drasriy

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