on the fan issue.. my practice since start driving conti 7 years ago is.. after long drive, leave the engine running for about 30 seconds or so (taking my time to get out of the car), wait till fan off (few secs only) then i off the engine..
if not, without engine running, the fan will ON longer for few minutes. if battery charging is bad, it will drain faster.

i cannot bro..kena pegi beraya sorry.. maybe next time..

thom_chai, hate to break this to you but multilink in previous generation protons are not true multilink suspension. it was a double wishbone improved with an extra control arm, simply known as multilink double wishbone setup. yes, like you, one could argue as it has more than 2 control arm, so it is worthy to be called multilink suspension.
however though a true multilink employs in BMW, Audi, Honda Accord and some performance cars is a fully independent suspension with 5 control arm. so since the 'Asia's BMW' waja, lotus does not just add a stabilizer bar but the whole rear suspension is using their own design. problem with true multilink suspension is that it is more costly and complex, and take up more space in the rear. that is one contributing fact of rear space issue in neo. with 5 control arms, engineer can have more tuning option so from waja, a similar but modified suspension (tuned geometric with computer aided) is used in gen2, neo, and now persona.
all this trouble for a small improvement in handling. so that driver can press accelerator pedal while corning, thats all.
but to say this setup is the best setup is like saying im the best human being in the world. no such thing. it depends on application. but i was intended for performance oriented indeed. and modern cars now are uplifting the standards. why? because for the longest time, honda civic only use a much simpler trailing arm for rear suspension. only 2007 model if not mistaken using multilink. to say torsion bar is not good is also not true. renault, Peugeot, citroen all use torsion bar earlier. with no spring somemore. but howcome zx ride is soo good? but when it act up, have to replace whole rear axle liao. and for vios fan, dont expect french ride from your torsion bars ok.

MPAJ - My Pride And Joy

This post has been edited by BudoKid2002: Oct 22 2007, 05:52 PM

For BL only..
1. Anybody know already where to get the trunk lid cover found in ML/HL?
2. anybody asked how much and where is the best place to spraypaint sidemirror, doorhandles, lining?

R3 spoiler.. hmm..i wonder how much would that be..
btw, last night i found out 1 thing..
driving persona is at its best if youre driving fast.. i was pushing the limits of this car by driving like a mad man around town. speeding where im not suppose to. taking corners in flyover while stepping pedal, using less brake as possible like an f1 driver. it amazed me as what this car could do. considering its rather high looking car height, standard tyres and suspension, boy it really stiff!
the harder you push, the harder it stays. it gives you that kind of rush and make you say.. "gosh! i cant believe i did that!"
but like i said many times before, for slow driving, the suspension is kinda stiff for my taste. the ride do remind me time and time of how much better french ride is. i just wish it to be kinder to my kidney. now i probably know how jeremy clarkson feel when testing a perfectly good family car after driving numerous sports/luxury car. my renault is not luxury but you get what i mean.
for those comparing with myvi (or anything similar price bracket), it depends on what you looking for. other car is easier to drive, close to your senses, lighter steering, easy parking, more practical cabin space, probably appeal more general public.
but the thing is, lotus is a sports car manufacturer. proton have lotus expertise not toyotas.

have you heard the story? somebody did a survey to malaysian taste of ideal car.
people want cheap price and can fit as much people as possible. so they comeup with reban ayam on wheels!

This post has been edited by BudoKid2002: Oct 24 2007, 11:01 AM

surprisingly, no.
i dont know how the car look from outside when hard cornering, as you know, the rear is tall..
but how i measure it?, my ass seems to be in place at driver seat. i know my limit when my ass is not. thats when you've the feeling youre not in control of the car.
somebody here mention to me about the 'point and ...' feature of the steering wheel.. i think i know what it means now. point where you want it to turn, and hold it steady. i know it sounds rather obvious but if you drive 2 different car, you'll notice to appreciate it.
For furious(not necessary fast) driving, the rear drum brakes is ok but disc should be better.
every beginning of driving, when doing hard braking, theres a slight 'sipping' sound on the brakes. when do it second time, the sound is gone. acceptable to me. do what i did, while driving fast, upon reaching a que at traffic light, then brake hard. make sure no car behind la. just wanted to push the envelop of this car. to know the limit. well, the brakes are fine i guess. but the auntie inside car infront looks furious.

This post has been edited by BudoKid2002: Oct 24 2007, 02:46 PM

im out of topic now to talk more about this car..
im starting getting lamer and lamer..
but cant seem to get it out of my mind.. kept thinking about the car.. its not like you buy a brand new car every year!
but when driving, do you guys notice the attention? its worse when the window is not tinted. i got mine tinted on the 2nd day. seems like everyone is looking at the car, then the driver. some even pretend not looking.. hahaha..
its nearly a month now, and still have that feeling of being stared at. as the persona im driving is bright and shining white colour, it is hard not to be noticed.
btw, somebody mention he ordered solid white but late delivery? thats because my salesgirl took your car..sorry..

i cant wait for the BLM. im thinking of disposing both my junk car for this BLM.
persona to me is considered big already.. need 1 smaller car for runabout.
next year fuel price will be up again i heard.
was considering 2nd hand savvy for its price and good FC but holding back for BLM. what do you guys think?

ralf, i do believe so.
which branch you go to?

some dealer advertise got ready stock.. if youre not choosy on colour or trim, can get easily. each dealer have 1-2 ready stock, so need to scout around.. 1 dealer in sj have plenty of stock at their yard.. so just need to find good honest salesman.
1 dealer i know take 500 extra for fast delivery. dont ask me taken from where.

retune what? if like that all campro need to recall for tuning lor?

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Added on October 25, 2007, 11:47 amhow much do you guys pay for 1st service? anybody done 2nd service?

This post has been edited by BudoKid2002: Oct 25 2007, 11:47 AM

i thought the car chassis already stiff as it is?
why would we need extra bar? for aesthetic?
the only limitation/improvement needed for this car (in terms of handling) is the tires. this morning i corner till tyres were screeching slightly. then i know my limit.
no offence but the front suspension are suppose to bend. whole lot of work were done to have a correct and acceptable balance of stability, comfort and durability.
but thats the whole point of suspension tuning isn't it? for customization. adding stabilizer bar is one of it.

This post has been edited by BudoKid2002: Oct 25 2007, 12:16 PM

guys, my point exactly, the tyres already screaching before the car even 'buang'. that means suspension already stiff enough for the standard tyres to handle. do you guys agree?
so is it safe for me to say.. upgrade tires first then stabilizer bar?

additional stabilizer for a stiffer ride..
been there done that.. lowered spring, bigger rims, low profile tyres, strut bar, stabilizer bar, all on what cost? blood on urine, tyre wear one side, bushing worn faster, steering rack leaking, driveshaft worn faster, wheel bearing worn, oil sump gasket leaking..
or is it because im getting older?
like i said earlier.. car is always about trade off between
performance,
comfort,
durability
and maybe cost.
theres no easy improvement in 1 area without sacrificing the other. the choice is yours..

relax.. i was just teasing..
lets talk on your '1st stage' mods.. im sure youve consider extra bar translates to harder ride on bumps and faster worn tyres right?

point to ponder, gen2 comes standard with front strut bar right? so in persona did proton just remove 1 bar, increase rear height, put higher profile and softer sidewall tyres, and say its 'tuned for comfort'?
or is it with different roof, and extended rear boot means different weight proportion so have to undergo simulation software to find ideal geometry for the suspension?
i just wish nobody will screwup the car like the owner who put chromes platting on rear lamps and all over the body.

for safety? do you mean the roll cage ah?
ok lah.. since im in not in the mood for work, let me share some knowledge lah.. but first must understand the terms first.

chassis
- is the vehicle frame (rangka) + suspension
engine chasis + engine +gearbox + driveshaft - body shell.
siapa sini pernah nampak lori takde body shell atas jalan? ataupun nascar? the body sheet is a seperate layer fixed to the structural frame.

monocoque - car nowdays, are all monocoque. meaning, the shell is part of the scrutable frame. so the body now, is part of the chasis because it share load now. faham tak? like extra skeletal trasformers ataupun serangga berbeza dgn manusia sebab rangka manusia adalah tulang didalam badan, tetapi rangka serangga ataupun transformers berada di luar dan dalam. chassis yang baik akan menentukan how good the car handles.

strut bar - bar yang berada di dalam engine bay. kedua2 suspension disambungkan dgn bar dengan harapan mengurangkan flex suspension dan body. ketika hard cornering, tayar, suspension, dan body, ada membengkok/condong sikit. memang dibuat begitu, normally flex2 ini dari bushing dan mounting. kira dengan bar ini kita ikat terus kedua2 suspension ini supaya taknak gerak. namun begitu, bar ini bukanlah besi semata2. tetapi dia adalah bar yang bersifat spring atau anjalan gitu. so, ianya masih ada had untuk dia membengkok.
soalan cepu emas - adakah dia memberi kesan? ya tetapi hanya pada chasis yang keras. bukan chasis yang lembut. sebabnya, hard cornering perlulah mencapai had maksima sebelum ia flex dan level of stiffness ini ditambah oleh bar. sekiranya chassis lembut (softer resistance to flex), bar ini tak berguna.
bar ini meningkatkan keupayaan menahan flex pada tahap extreme bukannya keseluruhan. maknanya, takat sebelum flex itu saja yang ditingkatkan. so result may vary, bergantung pada kekuatan chassis dan cara drive. kalau bawak biasa, takde difference except for its drawback. its drawback is ride harshness. hentakan ketika bump lebih terasa sebab, hentakan pada sebelah tayar akan dirasai oleh suspension di sebelah lain.

alamak ada kerja lah..
a quick one, rear bar - menghubungkan 2 suspension - same thing also. tayar botak cepat sebab tak boleh flex so tayar itu ditarik dan kurang mengikut bentuk mukabumi.
sway bar - similar juga, tapi dia ada torsion spring. kekenyalan rear bar diatas bergantung pada besi bar tapi sway bar memberikan kereta vertical spring. sway bar ini dikatakan better dari stabilizer bar kerana boleh reduce body lean whithout compromise ride quality. but even with improve stiffer cornering, it is still dangerous kerana when it is too hard untuk melawan 'buang' hingga tayar satu boleh terangkat ketika hard cornering.
that is when 'active' anti roll bar come to picture yang boleh ON and OFF.
im getting bored!

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Added on October 26, 2007, 4:37 pmandy agree with you. i just dont get it when people bash proton. if i got money i buy bmw end of story dont want to think proton at all. but what choice do we have? a 5 year old second hand japanese? are you kidding me? yes maybe the car is better than brand new proton, but brand new is brand new. what other choice in same price bracket? a myvi? hello, lets compare with real cars ok.
so we bought persona because
cheapest 1.6 car
cheaper maintenance (local parts)
new model
warranty


This post has been edited by BudoKid2002: Oct 26 2007, 04:37 PM

for the car door, is the frame, internal structure, and body shell same unit or a piece of metal sheet being welded?
same as the roof all the way to the rear. is a piece of metal sheet being welded?
i think those that are one with the frame is chasis. body parts not parts of chassis is like the engine hood, front side panel, bumpers, trunklid, lamps and window glass.
the chasis youre refering is engine chassis.
yes, engine, transmission, driveshaft is powertrain, but together, they are included in the chassis group because of the weight influence in balancing of the chassis. at least thats what the book told me.. on modern automotive.
anyhow, the terms are always changing in time. lastime 'platform' and 'chassis' is different. now its similar. only platform is the bigger entity.
in the 80s, 'tune' or 'tuning' means adjustment of carburator airfuel mixture. then in the early 90s, it means reset the ECU. now, car tuning means customization/personalize mod of the car.. exhaust, rims, tyres, suspension, bodykits, everything. same as 'pimped'. tuner company is like amg, brabus, m3, kleeman, and maybe naza? some of them take a car from assembly line and sell as different model.

morning all.. just to share, you might want to check tyre pressure on all 4 before sending for alignment. happened to me. i put 30psi for all 4. this one everybody knows. same pressure for front and back. unless we're driving f1 cars la..
on headlights issue, im not experiencing any electric shock yet, but during night driving, i do notice when fan or compressor intermittently ON, lights kinda dim/blink a bit. signs of irregular voltage supply? well, every car manufacturer have their own design, but the fan speed to me is too high. taking too much current causing the dip. maybe can install 2 speed relay?
like always, im getting carried away with my posting.. so here it goes..
for BL, ML and HL, is the alternator and battery spec the same? or is it slightly higher for HL due to extra things?
for BL, alternator is 70amp and battery is 45din am i correct?

but i think the question is, will it void the waranty?
i know for old cars, grounding cable + VS improved quite a bit but for new car? i dont mind to live with it if its designed that way and it has been tested. but if its a defect/flaw sure they have to rectify.
is it ok to highlight it as complaint on next service? as its not really a problem. but i think i will try complain and a see what they have to say.
owning a proton is like becoming a test engineer. thats the fun of it!

this is rather interesting..
on the persona, petronas is more powderful whilst shell is rough but gives more mileage. both did perform as claimed. petronas gives more power and shell gives more mileage.
petronas, caltex = more power
esso, mobil and the rest = so, so
shell = is the worse.
i mean worse by engine is noticeably rough the moment you walk out from petrol station. you can also notice the power loss by AT shifting behavior.
my personal choice.. primax all the way. as proven in my old junk car, less carbon deposit. 2nd is mobil/esso.