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 24" LCD Monitor, need some help

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TSgmannji
post Aug 31 2007, 06:36 PM, updated 19y ago

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im a little bit confuse. rclxub.gif

lets say i wanted to buy benq FP241WZ for my pc n upcoming ps3 because of the inputs u get,

and i run it on 720p, will the image look nice/sharp? or pixelated?

sorry if this is a noob question, but the native res for FP241WZ is 1920x1200 rite? n wat happens if i run my ps3 on 720p n pc on 1280x1024? hmm.gif

i know that if u dont run it on native res the quality is bad.

ive done my research here but got confused and still dont understand sad.gif

so i hope u guys can help me out icon_question.gif
lucifah
post Aug 31 2007, 06:40 PM

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as long as you get the same RATIO, you won't have any problems

image dithering is supported by most modern lcd

it's the RATIO that is important

4:3. 5:4. 16:9, 16:10

keep the ratio aspect and you'll get good images (if not crisp)

of course, native is best.
TSgmannji
post Aug 31 2007, 06:49 PM

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from my link on pc via dvi:
"This worked just as you would expect. Run it at 1920x1200 and the screen is pixel perfect for all modes. Run it in 1280x1024, and it stretches wide in Full mode, scales with the proper aspect ratio in Aspect mode, and goes to perfect 1:1 mapping centered in the 1:1 mode. (no pics, it just worked right) "

what does it mean? the Aspect mode does the ratio thingy is it?

This post has been edited by gmannji: Aug 31 2007, 06:49 PM
ffrulz
post Aug 31 2007, 09:36 PM

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QUOTE(gmannji @ Aug 31 2007, 06:49 PM)
from my link on pc via dvi:
"This worked just as you would expect.  Run it at 1920x1200 and the screen is pixel perfect for all modes.  Run it in 1280x1024, and it stretches wide in Full mode, scales with the proper aspect ratio in Aspect mode, and goes to perfect 1:1 mapping centered in the 1:1 mode.  (no pics, it just worked right) " 

what does it mean? the Aspect mode does the ratio thingy is it?
*
1:1 means it's the original resolution. Native reso of the Benq panel is 1920x1200. HDMI is capped at 1920x1080 so your image will look a lil bit funny but negligible. You can fix this by turning on 1:1 mode where the image will not be scaled and you have small black bars on the top and bottom of your panel.
TSgmannji
post Aug 31 2007, 09:50 PM

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ok i think i got it. but if u use 720p the image will be stretched right?

ruztynail
post Aug 31 2007, 10:32 PM

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nope it would be stretched.

sry wouldnt.. hehe error

This post has been edited by ruztynail: Aug 31 2007, 11:27 PM
AlamakLor
post Aug 31 2007, 10:46 PM

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it will be stretch according to scale, or you can play it @ 1:1 and u will have surrounding black bars. Man I need to pick up another 241 for dual monitor thumbup.gif this is the best lcd out there hehe

more importantly...why would u wanna run the ps3 @ 720p? I've always have mine @ 1080p

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Aug 31 2007, 10:48 PM
ruztynail
post Aug 31 2007, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(AlamakLor @ Aug 31 2007, 10:46 PM)
it will be stretch according to scale, or you can play it @ 1:1 and u will have surrounding black bars. Man I need to pick up another 241 for dual monitor thumbup.gif this is the best lcd out there hehe

more importantly...why would u wanna run the ps3 @ 720p? I've always have mine @ 1080p
*
oh really?? my 22"inch DELL 1680x1050 has an ratio of 16:10 not 16:9. and its not stretched and doesnt hv black bars as i initially thought.

LCD these days are smart. rclxm9.gif

and.. no point putting at 1080p cause like i hv always said in all LCD threats.. it doesnt freaking make any difference..
only applies at 40 inch and above.

and a note. only 24" and above has 1080p applicable for LCD monitors. so do wat u please.
TSgmannji
post Sep 1 2007, 01:53 AM

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QUOTE(AlamakLor @ Aug 31 2007, 10:46 PM)
it will be stretch according to scale, or you can play it @ 1:1 and u will have surrounding black bars. Man I need to pick up another 241 for dual monitor thumbup.gif this is the best lcd out there hehe

more importantly...why would u wanna run the ps3 @ 720p? I've always have mine @ 1080p
*
thats what i thought. coz not all ps3 games are (correct if im wrong) 1080p rite ? so if the game runs on 720p, what would it look like?

QUOTE(ruztynail @ Aug 31 2007, 11:24 PM)
oh really?? my 22"inch DELL 1680x1050 has an ratio of 16:10 not 16:9. and its not stretched and doesnt hv black bars as i initially thought.

LCD these days are smart.  rclxm9.gif

and.. no point putting at 1080p cause like i hv always said in all LCD threats.. it doesnt freaking make any difference..
only applies at 40 inch and above.

and a note. only 24" and above has 1080p applicable for LCD monitors. so do wat u please.
*
is there such thing if i buy 22", running my ps3 on 1080p n the monitor scales it to 1680x1050??
redbull_y2k
post Sep 1 2007, 05:32 AM

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QUOTE(ruztynail @ Aug 31 2007, 11:24 PM)
oh really?? my 22"inch DELL 1680x1050 has an ratio of 16:10 not 16:9. and its not stretched and doesnt hv black bars as i initially thought.

LCD these days are smart.  rclxm9.gif

and.. no point putting at 1080p cause like i hv always said in all LCD threats.. it doesnt freaking make any difference..
only applies at 40 inch and above.

and a note. only 24" and above has 1080p applicable for LCD monitors. so do wat u please.
*
Actually it does, any pc users with lcd monitors will agree with that. Only console users claims u won't ever see any difference if you use 1080p on anything lower than 40". doh.gif Heck i can see the difference if i compare playing Virtua Tennis 3 on my LCD with 1080p vs 720p. sweat.gif 720p on a 1080p monitor would look abit soft on the edges, while 1080p would look sharper especially if you're looking at text. nod.gif

Also if there is no black bars on a 16:10 LCD, then it means that you're image is stretched from 16:9 to 16:10, so it's not in the correct ratio anymore. wink.gif

This post has been edited by redbull_y2k: Sep 1 2007, 05:34 AM
ruztynail
post Sep 1 2007, 12:09 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



u cant run 1080p on 22".. the max u can go is 720p. u'd get a blank screen for setting it to 1080p.


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


ok how do i say this..... its obviously different if PC users use a higher reso setting the details firstly becomes smaller more refine and etc.. sweat.gif

u'd hvnt said how big yr LCD screen is.?? sweat.gif . if its a 40" obviously again u can note the diff. jagged lines would be more refines... . but... if u are at 24"... of 30" and below///and if u compare 1080p with 720p.. u'd see ZIP differences..

TATS WHY!!!!! LCD TV introductory to full 1080p only comes in at 40" and above.. the rest tats below it only supports -input cause of market gimmicks.. the MANUFACTURES knows there is no point for 1080p for a small display.

let me giv u supporting docs so tat u dont claim otherwise..

QUOTE
Tests of visual acuity to determine the resolution required of a television transmission system by the BBC's J.O. Drewery and R. Salmon determined that at 9 feet, a 50 inch screen at 720p's resolution will give you all the resolution you can see! At 9 feet, a 56 incher needs 1080i to avoid seeing the pixel structure. If you sit farther or closer, you may need more resolution.



QUOTE

I've read various articles debating the importance of the 1080p. I want to set the record straight once and for all: if you are serious about properly setting up your viewing room, you will definitely benefit from 1080p (and even 1440p.) Why? Because the 1080p resolution is the first to deliver enough detail to your eyeball when you are seated at the proper distance from the screen. But don't just take my word for it: read on for the proof.

There are a few obvious factors to being able to detect resolution differences: the resolution of the screen, the size of the screen, and the viewing distance. To be able to detect differences between resolutions, the screen must be large enough and you must sit close enough. So the question becomes "How do I know if need a higher resolution or not?". Here is your answer.

Based on the resolving ability of the human eye (with 20/20 vision it is possible to resolve 1/60th of a degree of an arc), it is possible to estimate when the differences between resolutions will become apparent. Using the Home Theater Calculator spreadsheet as a base, I created a chart showing, for any given screen size, how close you need to sit to be able to detect some or all of the benefits of a higher resolution screen. (Click the picture below for a larger version.)

Resolution vs. Screen Size vs. Viewing Distance Chart

What the chart shows is that, for a 50-inch screen, the benefits of 720p vs. 480p start to become apparent at viewing distances closer than 14.6 feet and become fully apparent at 9.8 feet. For the same screen size, the benefits of 1080p vs. 720p start to become apparent when closer than 9.8 feet and become full apparent at 6.5 feet. In my opinion, 6.5 feet is closer than most people will sit to their 50" plasma TV (even through the THX recommended viewing distance for a 50" screen is 5.6 ft). So, most consumers will not be able to see the full benefit of their 1080p TV.

However, front projectors and rear projection displays are a different story. They make it very easy to obtain large screen sizes. Plus, LCD and Plasma displays are constantly getting larger and less expensive. In my home, for example, I have a 123-inch screen and a projector with a 1280×720 resolution. For a 123-inch screen, the benefits of 720p vs. 480p starts to become apparent at viewing distances closer than 36 feet (14 feet behind my back wall) and become fully apparent at 24 feet (2 feet behind my back wall). For the same screen size, the benefits of 1080p vs. 720p start to become apparent when closer than 24 feet and become full apparent at 16 feet (just between the first and second row of seating in my theater). This means that people in the back row of my home theater would see some improvement if I purchased a 1080p projector and that people in the front row would notice a drastic improvement. (Note: the THX recommended max viewing distance for a 123" screen is 13.7 feet).

So, how close should you be sitting to your TV? Obviously, you need to look at your room and see what makes sense for how you will be using it. If you have a dedicated viewing room and can place seating anywhere you want, you can use this chart as a guideline. It's based on THX and SMPTE specifications for movie theaters; the details are available in the Home Theater Calculator spreadsheet.

Recommended Seating Distances and Resolution Benefits

Looking at this chart, it is apparent that 1080p is the lowest resolution to fall within the recommended seating distance range. Any resolution less than 1080p is not detailed enough if you are sitting the proper distance from the screen. For me and many people with large projection screens, 1080p is the minimum resolution you'd want.

In fact, you could probably even benefit from 1440p. If you haven't heard of 1440p, you will. Here's a link to some info on Audioholics.com. It is part of the HDMI 1.3 spec, along with 48-bit color depth, and will probably surface for the public in 2009 or so. You'll partially be able to see the benefits of 1440p at the THX Max Recommended viewing distance and the resolution benefits will be fully apparent if you are just a little closer. I've read of plans for resolutions reaching 2160p but I don't see any benefit; you'd have to sit too darn close to the screen to notice any improvement. If you sit too close, you can't see the far edges of the screen.

In conclusion: If you are a videophile with a properly setup viewing room, you should definitely be able to notice the resolution enhancement that 1080p brings. However, if you are an average consumer with a plasma on the far wall of your family room, you are not likely to be sitting close enough to notice any advantage. Check the chart above and use that to make your decision. Also, the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) states the the most important aspects of picture quality are (in order): 1) contrast ratio, 2) color saturation, 3) color accuracy, 4) resolution. Resolution is 4th on the list and plasma is generally superior to LCD in all of the other areas (but much more prone to reflections/glare.) So pick your display size, then measure your seating distance, and then use the charts above to figure out if you would benefit from the larger screen size.



wat i dont get it still is my image is CERTAINLY not stretched on my LCD.. no black bars. tats fine.. but its really not stretched.. come-on.. i certainly can tell if its stretched or not right??
i was firstly afraid it might be bfr i bought it.. but a forumner "TOT" confirmed with me it isnt.. and thus i got it.. thn whn i plugged it in.. its not stretched.. so why!??!

This post has been edited by ruztynail: Sep 1 2007, 12:10 PM
redbull_y2k
post Sep 1 2007, 12:24 PM

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ermmm.... i use a 24" lcd monitor. And i experience it myself, so i don't need to read any articles saying i won't see any difference coz i do see the difference myself. wink.gif For an LCDTV, then u'd definitely need a 40" to experience 1080p, although u can still see with a 37" lcdtv. But on an lcd monitor, since you're sitting closer, even a 24" is enough to see the difference. So don't claim otherwise unless you experience it yourself first. nod.gif
AlamakLor
post Sep 1 2007, 12:30 PM

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yes, if there's no black bars, your monitor stretched it to 16:10. whether you can tell it is stretch or not is totally depending on you, not everybody can detect 200 pixels different in vertical width without comparing them side by side with a 16:9 screen.

QUOTE(gmannji @ Aug 31 2007, 02:53 PM)
thats what i thought. coz not all ps3 games are (correct if im wrong) 1080p rite ? so if the game runs on 720p, what would it look like?
is there such thing if i buy 22", running my ps3 on 1080p n the monitor scales it to 1680x1050??
*
What will it look like? it will look like 1080p @ 16:9 with black bars on top and bottom. The benq 241 is the best monitor, u wont go wrong with it. No dead pixels, no banding, awesome colors. I sold my 42" 1080p lcd to replace it with this benq simply because I have never seen an lcd TV that doesnt have banding issues. I was waiting for 1080p plasma to be out. Panasonic now has 1080p plasma, and I'm so getting the 50" 1080p viera when I settle down thumbup.gif

one thing i should mention is that, oddly, when my wii is set to widescreen @ 420p, the bars are at the side...I suspect the wii is not really 16:9 @ wide screen. lol

I bought my benq as soon as the AR firmware fix was out, that was around RM2800, the monitor can now be bought for <rm2500 here in Canada.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Sep 1 2007, 12:36 PM
ruztynail
post Sep 1 2007, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(redbull_y2k @ Sep 1 2007, 12:24 PM)
ermmm.... i use a 24" lcd monitor. And i experience it myself, so i don't need to read any articles saying i won't see any difference coz i do see the difference myself.  wink.gif For an LCDTV, then u'd definitely need a 40" to experience 1080p, although u can still see with a 37" lcdtv. But on an lcd monitor, since you're sitting closer, even a 24" is enough to see the difference. So don't claim otherwise unless you experience it yourself first. nod.gif
*
thn u're jus in a pure denial world . sweat.gif

i dont need to experience it ler.. we got a forumner here with a 24" DELL too tat reviewed it.
http://sotbest.blogspot.com/

i no money to experience it. so i READ.. rclxm9.gif


so your image on a ps3 is also stretched?? since 24" is definitely a 16:10 ratio..


Added on September 1, 2007, 12:41 pm
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


so is your image stretched too?

cause AFAIK. DELL PC LCD has the auto aspect ratio correcting gismo

This post has been edited by ruztynail: Sep 1 2007, 12:50 PM
theGOne
post Sep 1 2007, 12:51 PM

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I'm using DELL 24" LCD monitor for ps3. It is 16:10 aspect ratio as compared to LCD TV which is 16:9, thus it will be stretched slightly. But fortunately this LCD monitor has scaling options (primary reason me picking up this monitor), therefore I set it to maintain aspect ratio which results in small black bars on top and bottom of screen.
AlamakLor
post Sep 1 2007, 12:54 PM

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If it used the correct AR, it will be 16:9 scaled to larger resolution when being fed with lower than the monitor's native resolution. You will still see black bars because monitors are 16:10 while the input is 16:9. If you don't see black bars, it has been stretched, end of story.

QUOTE(theGOne @ Sep 1 2007, 01:51 AM)
I'm using DELL 24" LCD monitor for ps3. It is 16:10 aspect ratio as compared to LCD TV which is 16:9, thus it will be stretched slightly. But fortunately this LCD monitor has scaling options (primary reason me picking up this monitor), therefore I set it to maintain aspect ratio which results in small black bars on top and bottom of screen.
*
I believe you are using the latest revision? IIRC it is A04 that they started introducing AR fix on the 2407. They just launched A04 when the benq's AR units were out. The market was still flooded with crippled A03 2407 back then.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Sep 1 2007, 12:56 PM
redbull_y2k
post Sep 1 2007, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(ruztynail @ Sep 1 2007, 12:39 PM)
thn u're jus in a pure denial world . sweat.gif

Aiseh, then you really need to experience it first lah. I can see the difference, my friends did, i'm sure u would too. nod.gif
ruztynail
post Sep 1 2007, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(AlamakLor @ Sep 1 2007, 12:54 PM)
If it used the correct AR, it will be 16:9 scaled to larger resolution when being fed with lower than the monitor's native resolution. You will still see black bars because monitors are 16:10 while the input is 16:9. If you don't see black bars, it has been stretched, end of story.
*
u know. everyone here jus claims claims claims. no one can give me a proper answer. some articles would do good. i searched plenty bfr buyin my own. and i'd search even more whn u all claim otherwise.

ALAMAKLOR. if u think u cant give me a proper explanation and prefer to end story without a discussion. u'd can do me a favor by not cutting my question short. its would be reallly kind of u if u could keep yr cool. rclxms.gif
AlamakLor
post Sep 1 2007, 01:03 PM

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mind you, I've given all the info and explained everything there is to AR and scaling, hence end of story. If you wanna believe that your 16:10 screen is doing 16:9 @ full screen without black bars, then so be it.

oh btw, my screen is not stretched, there are black bars on top and bottom of the screen when feeding it with 16:9, and full screen when I run it at 16:10, 1900 X 1200 res on my pc.

This post has been edited by AlamakLor: Sep 1 2007, 01:04 PM
redbull_y2k
post Sep 1 2007, 01:06 PM

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I think AlamakLor have given quite a clear explanation already, it can't get clearer than that. Unless of course u'd want a picture to help u get the message? I'll try n dig it up later, preferably articles that are easier to understand. nod.gif tongue.gif

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