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 Military Thread V28

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jwst1313
post Sep 27 2021, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Sep 26 2021, 12:31 PM)
Buy from PT PAL but cannot lo, how can buy from indonesia, some will question??

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This KCR use Terma C combat management system made by Terma Denmark western system, BUT recently succesfully fired a chinese made anti ship missle C-705 and hit target.

How Indonesian can intergrate an european CMS with a chinese missle?

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 27 2021, 05:27 PM
jwst1313
post Sep 27 2021, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 27 2021, 12:23 PM)
Well obviously the highly professional general with 20 years experience the One who didn't want a simple brown water Navy equipment that the Gowind are design for. Probably because they don't want to be a brown water navy anymore kot?

The Gowind as its originally is, is probably what BNS & gov wanted. All The change afterwards be it's enlargements &Β  Exocet change to NSM is what RMN general wanted.Β  The program also stop because RMN refuse to sign off propulsion system installation probably because they wantedΒ  a change in ESSM as well.

But the general desires isn't really unreasonable. The increase in size, NSM doesn't really changed the price too much compared to what Egyptian are paying in USD nor is the ESSM installation by UAE which about the same price as other gowind in USD.

Your RM goes GG is the primary reason for the cost increase. It's the government fault for relying too much on oil revenue. But they do that because their rakyat aren't bright in understanding basic economy and thus super kedekut in paying taxes & super addicted to subsidies

The desire to satisfied these not too bright citizen is the reason why mat sabun unable to makes any decisions resulting in current 4 years delay.
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Well if you said this then it seems nobody are professional , But i still believe the Naval officers had given their require specs in terms of CMS and weapon system. I have read it back dated 2011 to 2013 that ESSM on mk 41 VLS and thales Tacticos CMS was the Navy choice. Thats why Thales Snart S-mk2 radar was selected
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The supplier screw it n what happened the customer do not want to know. Just get it sort out. That is a manufacturer job. Solve the problem and deliver the goods. Not only built, be a solution provider.

As i know, if no agreement and specs signed and sealed by 3 parties:- the builder, owner and user (navy) , why should the builder proceed with the project ?. This apply the same to any kind of projects whether it is construction, factory or airport whereby it involved a lot of funds. If no proper agreement sealed and signed , never start project.

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 28 2021, 12:12 AM
jwst1313
post Sep 28 2021, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Sep 28 2021, 12:27 AM)
Also understand what TLDM is expecting of the LMS batch 2 and Kedah batch 2. The TLDM requirements for these ships are underwhelming when considering their cost.
https://militaryasset.blogspot.com/2018/04/...dua-rekaan.html
BNS has shown the RLMS Concept based on the requirements requested by TLDM. Just 40mm gun. No missiles at all.

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RLMS
More than 70m length
price same as current LMS RM262.5 million
40mm gun
helicopter
probably 2 containers under the helipad
speed 24 knots
range 2000 nm
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Kedah Batch 2
What TLDM wants? Yes, just a plain OPV that should be the task of MMEA. How much does it cost? RM500 million or 128 million dollars each! The 1890 tonne 83m long Tun Fatimah class Damen OPVs are just RM246 million each. There are no FFBNW provisions, this is a pure OPV that will not be upgraded to a corvette.
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Meko 100 is 1800 tons. A corvettee. Why pay rm500 million and make it a gun boat only. If want a gun boat opv get 500 tons Kcr 60 metre or the damen made 18890 ton and made it a gunboat .The Damen only Purely gunboat . Why pay a bmw , take the engine out and change with a proton?

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 28 2021, 05:03 PM
jwst1313
post Sep 28 2021, 05:16 PM

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A day or two ago, TNI published the video in youtube the succes of OPV KCR 40 equipped with Denmark made (Western CMS) Terma C Naval Combat Management System and Terma radar BUT fired a CHINA made C-705 anti ship missle and hit target. Terma is widely use in many corvettes.

Well a western CMS integrate with a China made missle. Why not?

What is the price of KCR 40 and the larger KCR 60 as opv gun boat or as missle boat
jwst1313
post Sep 28 2021, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 28 2021, 10:40 PM)
You are selling BNS wet dream as official RMN policy.

Off course these are the kind of shitty ship that RMN would get if they allowed BNS a monopoly and what wasΒ  in the OG 1525.

Aren't you glad those general 'sabotage' BNS out of making anymore ship for RMN?
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Selling over priced , over mark up low specs vessel just for bns to make sky hugh profits. In the end TLDM get all the shit

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 28 2021, 11:43 PM
jwst1313
post Sep 29 2021, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(Lampuajaib @ Sep 29 2021, 09:07 AM)
Integration is the key ....you can mix anything if you can make them integrated.
You have to make a bridge or adapter or modified the software to make things integrated.
Don't expect all parts in weapon system can be installed plug and play.
Integration is serious challenge.
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PT PAL did it successfully on KCR 40 metre missle opv and KCR 60 metre missile opv.

The KCR also comes with a Russian CIWS. Well PT PAL intergrated a western CMS system with china made ship attack missle range 125 km and Russian made Ciws. How about that !!!!πŸ‘πŸ‘
jwst1313
post Sep 29 2021, 11:22 PM

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QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Sep 29 2021, 02:56 PM)
Mampukah Syarikat Kapal Malaysia Membina Kapal
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πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆπŸ‘ŽπŸ‘ŽπŸ‘Ž
jwst1313
post Sep 29 2021, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 29 2021, 06:39 PM)
Guess You can do almost everything if you throw enough money & time around. You can even buy a Russian jet with french avionics to drop american bombs.

It's up to individuals country to figure if the money, time, headaches & efforts Worth it.
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How much was KCR 60 Metres compared fo China LMS gun boat????

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 29 2021, 11:24 PM
jwst1313
post Sep 29 2021, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Sep 29 2021, 09:16 AM)
Rp 75 milyar in 2012 or $5.2mn

Maybe around $6mn today

https://www.kemhan.go.id/2012/02/16/menhan-...lam-negeri.html

Target hit at 0:55

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In shallow water 2 kcr-60 means got 8 ship attack missile. launch 4
missile and run away at high speed.

From the 4 exocet lainch if can hit 2 corvettes 2,500 ton is good enough. Sea skimming exocet missles are very difficult to detect until terminal stage.

Why not trade 4 ship attack exocet missile at total cost US$1.2 million with 2 corvette of 2,000 tons worth US$650 million in total

Thats how in Falkland war Argentina use Exocet to attack HMS shelfield. A single exocet missile destroyed a destroyer in a 250 to 1 ratio

Falkland war was a finest example why ship attack missile skimming at sea level only detected at terminal but it is too late because at terminal stage the missle is also the fastest.

Hence TNI doctrine of arming its own made opv with ship attack missile and ciws make sense?

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 29 2021, 11:46 PM
jwst1313
post Sep 29 2021, 11:56 PM

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Falkland Wars 1982

Top picture Exocet launch from Super Etendard jet.

Bottom picture Exocet hit HMS Shelfield Type 42 Destroyer at sea skimming level.

Middle picture picture the type 42 destroyer burning almost finish with just one exocet missile attack.

Important to have ship attack missile?? Important to have gatling ciws as last layer of defence for frigate?

Many born in the 1975 and above you were too young to know. If argentina have more exocet they sink more vessel

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 30 2021, 12:03 AM
jwst1313
post Sep 30 2021, 12:41 AM

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At least indonesia armed their missile OPV KCR 60 M
with ship attack missile, AK730 Gaitling gun 30 mm ciw, 2000 rounds, range 4 km, one main gun 57 mm and 4 ship attack missle

For gunboat OPV, kcr 60 only main gun and machine gun.

So separate , missle boat is missile boat
Gunboat is gunboat
jwst1313
post Sep 30 2021, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(Lampuajaib @ Sep 30 2021, 08:47 AM)
I must say overall there will be  no major upgrade capability until 2040-2050.
MY even must struggle to keep defence capability
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Do you have CIWs 20 mm or 30 mm onboard your kasturi, keris and lekiu class ?
jwst1313
post Sep 30 2021, 08:18 PM

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I read this lowyat on military blog often and i m an amateur.

I just think we always want to be No. 1 only. Not capable also die die want to be No. 1. Must jaga air muka. Face and pride so important.

Ask you if PT PAL or STMarine launching Frigate 4000 tons would you consider to buy or must buy from France?

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 30 2021, 08:30 PM
jwst1313
post Sep 30 2021, 09:55 PM

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In 2014 during service life extension program, the radar system of both Lekiu Class also change to Terma C 6000 series, same as the radar of new philippines corvette and KCR40 m and 60 m missile opv. All use western made (Denmark made) Terma C series radar.

Any report of Lekiu Class fail in test firing or tracing using Terma 6000 radar?

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 30 2021, 09:57 PM
jwst1313
post Sep 30 2021, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 30 2021, 09:55 PM)
Simple.

Pull all military man behind the territorial water and send in the coast guard to the Chinese.

Is NOT something he would likely says 🀣
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The real navy man operatinh or commanding the ships suffer
jwst1313
post Oct 2 2021, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Oct 2 2021, 10:03 AM)
And TNI navy intergrate Terma C CMS into china made anti ship missile C-705 and hit direct in a test fired. TNI also intergrate Terma C CMS with Russiam made CIWs 730

I wonder why none TLDM boats arr armed with CIWs as final layer of defence. And ehy do not intergrate with chins anti ship missile. PT PAL shown us it can be done

TNI started

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Oct 2 2021, 01:44 PM
jwst1313
post Oct 2 2021, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Oct 1 2021, 06:42 PM)
Not at the expenses of their navy like you suggested.
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You give to bns make where can be cheaper?
jwst1313
post Oct 2 2021, 03:51 PM

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[url=https://pictr.com/image/B1I8lO][img]https://pictr.com/images/2021/10/02/B1I8lO.md.j

Indonesia is building the family of china c - 705 and c-802 under licence. Maximum range 170 km . It is anti ship cruise missle . Flying at 10 m to 12 m above sea level. Hit probability is 95.7% and suitable to destroy corvettes between 1000 tons to 3000 tons.

Anti PT PAL manage succesfully to integrate a chInese cruise missle with Terma C series western made CMS. How about that? PT PAL also managed to intergrate western CMS with chinese missle and Russian CIWS.

pg[/img][/url]
[url=https://pictr.com/image/B1I4Pr]
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This post has been edited by jwst1313: Oct 3 2021, 10:26 AM
jwst1313
post Oct 2 2021, 03:52 PM

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This is Indonesia reverse engineered C 705
jwst1313
post Oct 3 2021, 11:01 AM

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We need to know how deep is Mesia pocket. No point talking all plans if pocket no $$$.

Indonesia 2020 defence budget is US$9 billion which is about RM$40 billion.

Thats why they can afford and 6000 tons frigate by 8 one shot. The italian, Dutch , British and Koreans all que up to meet PT PAL.

Even their coast guard vessel have Terma scanter 6000 radars system

Thats why do not die die to be No. 1. Indonwsia is Asean big brother followed by Spore, vietnam and Thailand




How much is yours??

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This post has been edited by jwst1313: Oct 3 2021, 11:03 AM

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