Lets look at sigma fast attack craft made by Dutch Sigma Look Similar?



This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 08:49 PM

That why with full platform AAW and ASW in, it is a good bargain. Our meko 100 is FFBNW. I think many understand. To me it is just bull shit in procurement. Either you buy a boat with missile or without missle. As simple as that. A corvette without missle defense, is a sitting duck

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 11:00 PM

Yup the kedah kelas is actually meko 100 at 1860 tons and become a river gun boat

The chinese LMS 700 tons from boustead I think isva gun boat. Correct me if I am wrong.



This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 11:04 PM

Tun fatimah already cost 60 million, wow

Irregardless of the missles cost as long as they get the ships ready for sea trial. As it involves indonesia, we over here could never get the whole story.

What is more important is the builder upon taking payment as billed get the vessel reasy as schedule without delays.

Cost over run do happen but not up to 40%. An additional 10% to 15% do occur

Why Malaysia do not involve TLDM and local buillders to cooperate with either South Koreans or Finnish or Dutch on such projects?

South Korean built good warships. They have good ship builders. Indonesia learn a lot from south Korea and Dutch. Or

If the vessel is good and suitable, why do not purchase from PT PAL Indonesia? 🤔🤔 instead the china LMS gum boat.

Or prefer pay 5x extra and buy from France ended kaput project?

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 11:41 PM

Of course it is not France problem. But Naval Group corvettes poorly armed are very high price. At that time Gowind 3100 ton RM$1.52 bil a vessel or US$400 million.

TLDM specs for missile system was never short range Mica (effective range 12 km) . TLDM has specified ESSM on MK 41 VLS launcher with 40 km range. As you know MK 41 launcher can accomodate 4 missile persilo. Hence 8 silo can accomodate 32 VLS missile. The land attack missile was Konesburg.

Thats why Thales Smart S-Mk2 Pesa fire radar was selected because this radar is primarily use in conjunction with essm mk 41 VLS. But again a lower spec French product was given priority over the better one at same price.

Hence Gowind Tldm has only point defense system. Unable to do area defense. The 2 unit of 25 years kelas Lekiu also with shorter range sea wolf vls 12 km. And Royal Navy has ended the service of Sea Wolf VLS in 2021.

Our Gowind cannot fire Aster missile because Gowind do not operate on Thales Herakles PESA Radar.

Instead of producing multi purpose light frigate / corvettee, it came out as ASW corvette but at a very ripped off price.

Anyway what I say are pointless now as what TLDM need immediately is the most important. TLDM realy really need these LCS irregardless either 2 units or 3 units. Sekian

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 19 2021, 12:05 AM

Yup just let OPVs be OPVs

The radar system that is going to manage the ESSM Mk 41 vls
and land attack missle are just too costly and make your OPV to be heavy. Small ship with some much in hand. This will make your OPV be the slowest 22 knot max, short range. A decent speed of corvettes / Frigate is 28 knots to 30 knots

No rojak

ESSM was suggested by TLDM before they gomen decided on LCS Gowind. TLDM wants ESSM either the shorter version RIM 162 of 21 missiles of 20 km range or the VLS MK 41 of max 40 lm effective range.

I doubt they going to use Essm now.

I was not sure earlier when thus question pop up.

If it is 3500 tons with missiles and full radar specs then 500 mil is not suprising.

The French La Fayatte Class Frigate (in which Singapore Formidable Class design based on) , in 3800 tons

Hence it is only 300 tons difference between the French La Fayatte Class and The Brazul Meko. So 500 mil make sense.

For me I too prefer Type 31 or Babcock Arrowhead AH 140. Understand that Indonesia version is the Air defense frigate of min 5,000 tons. 32 VLS ESSM on MK 41 Launcher. AH 140 can accomodate one huge heli above 10 tons to Merlin Size (AW 101)

Well the british built Lekiu Kelas at Yarrow shipyard model F2000 corvettes serve us well from 1995 until 2021 and still sailing now. 26 years after service. However both has to undergo SLEP in 2014/2015 to lengthen the service to 2030. From 2021 to 2030 is 9 uears. This mean both has to serve for 30 years

The british yards built pretty good vessels. I rather pay additional 25% and they get the job done to specs on time.

What have our politicions done to our Navy ? Each time failure and failure.

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 19 2021, 08:19 AM

Comform to full european specs > our LMS

I often read on China. Let me divert a bit here

China themselves admit they are still far behind in jet engine technology if compared to USA, Great Britain, Russian and France.

Let see China fighter J-10, J-15, J-20 and J-31. What is sragging them? Jet engine

Even China developed their own WS-10 jet engine which is derived from American F 119, the WS-10 jet engine still have problem until today.

China all the while been using moatly Saturn-30 from Russia. (Saturn-30 are use in many MIGs29, 31, and SU 27, SU 30, SU35, SU57

What i am trying to say here is China still find it very challenging and very tough to get a jet engine the can equal to GE F404, GE F414, P & W F119 and Saturn-30

Both GE F404 and F414 powered the F18D hoenet and F18E superhornet respectively. P&W F119 powered the F15.

China with access to american engines and coupled with china technology still need a lot a lot of time to make a good jet engine. One china aviation researcher said it takes a long time to perfect it.

Hence what make us think by buying the Blue Print one can built a modern stealth warship of current generation.???

I read the navy requirements in certain publications. When you have politikus who knew nuts about naval vessels and weapon sistem to decide, what decision we see???😁

The navy requested for ESSM, they know it well that they need it. Remember the Naval officer, Captain or XO are the one that going to operate the vessels.Not politikus.

I do not think your reasons are the main reasons. The naval officers are also involved in system selection from the 1st stage and i bet they know what they are doing better then all of us here.

They try to do away with French weapon system. The Thales Smart S-Mk2 is the prime radar use if ESSM is considered. Thats why those involved were frustrated. You pay for 5 star but get 4 star accomodation.

You can built one in Naval Group France and 5 in Boustead. Give local engineers and technician the hands on skill learning from Naval Group engineervactually building the ship

Then built the balance 5 here. How much it cost you extra of building one in Naval Group to ensure success of fhe project ? Total project cost is RM$9.12 billion, not a small sum.

I bet ST Marine Engineering Spore is a much experience and higher technology yard . Now they even built future Singapore destroyer and LPD (Helicopter carrier)

When building Formudable class, the 1st unit was built in Naval Group with ST Maribe engineers there. The balance 5 in Sppre.

I bet they also take the opportunity to exposed and learn as much.

And all 6 Formidable class complete on time in service for years 😁

Even china admit the main disadvantage of J-10, J-15, J-20, FC-31 is reliable high thrust turbofan jet engines. They have been depending on Saturn-30 and now developed the WS-10 which still derived from P & W F119. WS-10 still need years to be perfected.

I hope we can learn from China attitude. Yes you can built figher but if you do not have reliable engines liked F404, F414 , F100-220 or saturn 30 you cannot keep your jet in the sky.

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 19 2021, 05:01 PM

Nobody will say being a leader is easy.

Ask any top leaders or ceo, they tell you leadership is never easy., when you are the decision maker.

It is not easy to make better weighted decision but when one take the oath as the ceo or minister, he has to be prepared to make decisions be it right or wrong.

If one is not prepared to make decisions then you are not suitable to be the leader

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 19 2021, 06:44 PM

Yup , after pouring in , i expected the RM$9.12 billion.

The korean ckd incheon class FFX from Hyundai. US$330 circle I think at 3200 tons. CODOG powered. 30 knots. Naval shield mgmt system. 1 gun. 1 RAM and land attack missiles. Basically they based on American system. If ckd this version better.

Finally i hear this precious words from lowyat " please swallow your pride " and complete the 3100 Gowind.

A baby would learn to crawl, may fall down, then holdings to bedside to try and stand up and finally use his/her hand to hold on things and walk the 1st step. We often forgotten.

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 19 2021, 09:50 PM

You ask what kind of Gowind ??? 😁

As per blue print that is 3100 ton, speed 28 knots, CODOD, 16 mica, 57 mm gun, 8 konesburg, black shark torpedoes, 30 mm machine gun and one helicopter landing pad and storage

Above only a point defense warship, means cannot perform area defense or simply saying more to ASW role and Not multi purpose role.

And no rubbish FFBNW procurement term.

For Gowind 3100 Government has paid RM$6,000,000,000 ( Six billion Ringgit which cannot be recover) .😁 You already wet your hair !!

Do you think government will save gowind project by pumping in extra RM$2 billion or cancel ? 😁😁

I mean original RM$9.12 bil + extra maybe RM$2 billion and most probably get 3 or 4 ships instead of 6

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 19 2021, 11:28 PM