Your understanding is wrong. Every 5 years development budget from our recent history:

Usually TLDM gets 2 billion dollars. TLDM always gets the biggest allocation.

TD 1-1.2 billion dollars

TUDM 0.8-1 billion dollars


so far MMEA development budget, which is under Home Ministry is expected to be 0.5 billion dollar every 5 years.

.


I would like to know where did you get all those cheap ESSM...


ESSM price for USN 2021 buy is 1.795 million dollars each. Which is RM7.518 million.


https://www.stratvocate.com/files/2021/WPN_...9/WPN_Book.html


If even the Gowinds can carry just 16 VL MICA, it is impossible for tun fatimah OPV to carry 36. It just can't. Even Indonesian Sigma Frigates carry just 12 VL MICA.


ESSM could be quadpacked inside mk41 vertical launchers. That is the advantage of ESSM. Thai Daewoo DW-3000F Frigate has 8x mk41 with maximum possible ESSM loadout of 32 missiles.

Sorry. This is different than the orange one.



This is made by Deftech. The front bonnet opens without lifting the headlight.




This is made by Go Auto. Go Auto is not a company linked with NAZA.

if you are an ex navy, then your understanding is off, and you didn't learn anything about the advantages and disadvantages of those gas turbine vospers.

the strategy is right, the problem is the way you want to implement the strategy is wrong.

For example it is good to get rich. But getting rich by illegal means is wrong.

You talk about the American cannot get their LCS right. This is exactly what will happen if this Turkish FAC became reality in TNI-AL.

That Turkish FAC is the same size and can do everything that our Laksamana class can do as designed. But it has a top speed of 50 knots instead of the laksamana class speed of 35 knots. That should be an advantage right? But it is powered by 5 gas turbines, no diesel engines. How much fuel it is going to burn when doing patrol at 20 knots on those gas turbines? How many days can it patrol before running out of fuel? 3 days?

Missile boat/corvette like the Greek Super Vita and our own Laksamana Class when it was tiptop and with its full armament actually are the missile boat concept done right. Missile boat/corvette like the ones Indonesia want to buy from Turkey actually are the missile boat concept done wrong.

Sometimes I wonder why TLDM future plans still cannot take into account basic things like the existence of MMEA, wanting a slow big patrol boat for LMS batch 2 and wanting more slow no missile big OPVs in kedah batch 2.

We should never buy a destroyer. We don't have the money anyway.

My understanding of what you ask me to Google is why i am against this weak ship for LMS batch 2. What is the pro and con of this LMS Batch 2? What is the use if TLDM is filled with 18 of this weak ships?


Which is why as I have posted before I want LMS Batch 2 to be a smaller, faster, longer ranged ship than the Chinese LMS 68, but it should not be a 1 mission only FAC/Corvette of the traditional sense.

This is want i want for an ideal LMS (at least 24 of these)

alexLMS
- 50-60m length
- price RM100 million including anti-ship missile module, RM60 million without modules.
- maximum speed more than 28 knots
- range at maintained maximum speed at least 2500 nm
- Crew 24-30 only
- 1x 30mm gun
- 1x 6-7m RHIB
- Inflatable anti-ship decoy system, chaff/flare decoys
- up to 4 containers location for the placement of anti-ship missile module, low cost towed array sonar module, unmanned mine countermeasure modules, SAR/HADR module, Decompression modules and others.
- missile module (2x TEU side by side footprint) consisting of 8 AShM of C-705 size and price and 24-36 small vertical launched missiles of VL Hellfire or CM-501GA.
- low cost towed array sonar module (1x TEU) of SEA thin line KraitArray towed Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) sonar. SEA is the manufacturer of Maharajalela torpedo launchers.

Operational mission profile

- as patrol/FAC in melacca straits, Langkawi archipelago. Off mersing, tawau and sandakan waters. Fast, high maneuverability, small size will make this possible, while also hiding near islands and civilian boats to do ambush.

- as wingmans to Maharajalela frigates in ASW missions. 1x Gowind and 2x alexLMS. 1x CAPTAS2 TAS and 2x KraitArray TAS deployed. A better operational concept than to depend on ASW helicopter using dipping sonar.

- MCM missions, using future unmanned MCM modules. 1x MCM mothership (OSV ship bought used) and 2-4x alexLMS.

- long range shadow, chase of all foreign naval ships in malaysian waters+EEZ. the ability to sail full speed for at least 2500nm is crucial for these missions.

Is this impossible? There are actually existing ships that can do this. My ideal alexLMS can more than do all the missions and more of what you ask me to google. Do you think what TLDM wants in its next LMS Batch 2 better than this?



This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 16 2021, 01:05 PM

Anak tan sri drpd bini lain. Bukan geng2 berfoya2 tu. Xdpt harta NAZA yg disapu bini pertama.

Why 50 knot sprinting is so important when you have 100++km range anti ship missiles you can shoot from very far away? still 28++ knots is faster than LMS, and it can maintain that 28++ knot speed for more than 2500 nm, not just maximum speed for a few minutes like normal FAC does



You want to shoot anti ship missiles at this?


this?


this?


this?


or even this?


That is where the VL Hellfire or CM-501GA comes in.


China CSG is to be shadowed by scorpenes, not LMS.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 16 2021, 09:38 PM

not sure

- FAC/LMS will operate within the coverage of Malaysian Maritime Sea Surveillance System (Swasla), melacca straits, Langkawi archipelago. Off mersing, tawau and sandakan waters. That is one way.

- Satellite geospatial imaging

- UAVs such as scaneagle or future TUDM MALE UAV.



So how would you kill those small missile boats instead? Those missile boats also have the same problem acquiring long range targets.



Because we don't have many lah we cannot afford to waste money buying weak RLMS and kedah batch 2. So we can save money to buy more submarines.

anti piracy and border control does not need 50 knots FAC using 5 gas turbines for power. full stop.

Heck it does not even need a navy for that, just adequately funded coast guard.

congratulations to Indonesia

those are very good frigates.

Still waiting to see the plan on how PT PAL would build 6 FREMM and 2 Arrowhead 140 all at the same time.




This also should be a big wake-up call for Malaysia not to procrastinate and just get the Gowinds completed whatever it costs. And a wake-up call for the leadership of TLDM to stop planning for corvettes, OPVs or RLMS.

Its a little bit bigger, 10m longer than bagan datuk.

What I plan for the alexLMS is to be TLDM's LMS batch 2, doing things MMEA does not do, like slinging missiles, hunting mines, hunting submarines alongside Gowinds. A large RLMS, or even souped up fully armed corvettes cannot do the multitude of things the alexLMS can do, and do it economically.

MMEA to get military grade weapons means MMEA need the manpower to be trained on these weapons, technicians to maintain those missiles etc. Which MMEA should not.

If MMEA wants a 2nd batch of NGPC, this ship is ideal. Same size as the bagan datuks, but with better speed and range.








This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 17 2021, 09:23 AM

A question to ponder.

Is the blaming game much more important than the survival of Malaysia as a country?

Can you politicians and military leaders sleep at night knowing that we don't have anything close to those FREMMs and Arrowhead 140s?

A reason why TLDM should not keep on wasting time pondering on RLMS and OPV Kedah batch 2 while bloody expensive are armed just with guns only








Yes need to revisit ASAP

Army
- put 6x6s to the side first.
- Shore based NSM coastal batteries
- UAVs for ISR and artillery targeting
- jammers such as the ASELSAN KORAL
- JERNAS replacement with VL MICA NG

Airforce
- Forget about MERAD, army with VL MICA NG would do the task of MERAD
- Get LCA/FLIT in the numbers we need quickly
- MALE UAV. Just get Bayraktar TB2 and be done with it.
- AWACS

Navy
- just forget about any OPVs/corvettes !!! Leave patrolling optimised ships to MMEA.
- Gowinds to be completed quickly + additional Gowinds
- Replacement of Lekiu+kasturi with large frigates after 2030. Idealy Type 31 same as Royal Navy
- Additional scorpenes, at least 1 more before 2030.
- looking seriously at large UUVs


This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 17 2021, 09:38 AM

It does not have CIC, Big guns, any permanently mounted weapons except for a 30mm gun. It will just be a simple ship with a big rear deck. The basic ship performance is the one that is needed to be much more better than the LMS or even our current FACs.

It does not have to get every single module for every ship.

missile module is just 2 container sized worth per ship.

towed sonar module is just 1 container sized worth per ship. It does not even need to have anybody looking at the ASW data on board. All the data will be datalinked to the Gowinds, like how a ASW helicopter operates with its mothership ASW Frigate. The Gowind will control and decide where the alexLMS needs to go to detect subs.

The same if operated as part of MCM task force.




So for a fleet of 24 ships, maybe just 16 missile modules set, and 6 towed ASW sonar module is needed, as not all 24 ships would go out to sea at the same time.

MCM sets would be bought as a replacement for MCMV ships. Each MCM set is manned by their own specialized MCM operators. The MCM set can be operated from shore, OSV or OSV + alexLMS combo.

FREMM is the ASW

Type 31 is a GP frigate with minimal weapons in the RN version

Iver Huidtfelt in danish use is an advanced AAW warfare frigate with anti ballistic missile capability as capable as the Type 45 or Arleigh Burke.

No laws of physics broken if you have bothered to read my comments.

The playbook of my alexLMS being the "wingman" to the gowind frigates is similar. It gives the advantage of multiple ASW frigates deployed but with low cost.

The task force would consist of

1x Gowind frigate as the main ASW platform

2x alexLMS with KraitArray towed Anti-Submarine Warfare Sonar module operating in similar way to "herd" a sub




The Gowind frigate will deploy its towed CAPTAS2 variable depth sonar.

The alexLMS will deploy their towed thin line KraitArray towed Anti-Submarine Warfare Sonar. Small size, maneuverability, speed and range of the alexLMS means that you can play the ASW game for days at end.

So there will be 3 towed sonars in the water, that can be used for triangulation to search for the submarine by processors that can take datas from multiple sonar sources.

I hope you understand my narrative right. I am pushing this not against buying ASW Helis or MPAs, but pushing this cheaper and more versatile option against the navy getting useless much more expensive RLMS like ships for LMS Batch 2.

We can innovate and be the benchmark for the future, or we can imitate others even if it is not exactly suitable for our needs.

Yes of course we still need ASW helis for our Gowind frigates.

We still need MPAs as the eye in the sky.




Yes I fully consider my force structure against an expected threat. Not against China that is invading us, but a China wanting to keep us out of the South China Sea. A strong MMEA with large OPVs and adequate array of other ships to keep Chinese Coast Guard from harassing our economic activities day in and out, with a lean heavily armed TLDM able to strike back if anyone want to start any conflicts.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 17 2021, 04:38 PM

You can just lean and memorize all the history of things like US Navy LCS, or you can actually learn from its failures and create a better system.

US Navy wants its LCS to be the lead platform for ASW modules, MCM modules, with the crew of the LCS to operate those things. It is a complicated thing to do.

My alexLMS crew only need to know how to operate the missile module Thats it. ASW module operation, the sonar data will be datalinked to Gowind frigate, and alexLMS crew just follow directions from the Gowind on where to go. Same as for MCM mission. The alexLMS crew is just going to sail the ship to where the MCM module crews wants them to go.




A missile module is just 2 flat TEU containers put side-by-side with missiles bolted onto it. 4 anti-ship missiles facing right, 4 anti-ship missiles facing left, with vertical missile launchers in the middle.





ASW module already created. This is the towed thin line KraitArray towed Anti-Submarine Warfare Sonar module.






MCM modules already being made by many companies





This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 17 2021, 05:08 PM

Yes, we must push back against a china now that wants to keep us out of south china sea. that is what i wrote.

Our goal should be to keep South China Sea open as per UNCLOS.




What is that 10 ship actually?

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 17 2021, 04:57 PM