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 Here's why X50 3-cylinder engine is better than 4

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zenix
post Nov 16 2020, 04:10 AM

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3cyc minimum for car if 2cyc then become motor bike engine lol
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 16 2020, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(keaizer @ Nov 15 2020, 11:25 PM)
skrg ni nk sembang kereta ke kasut?
QUOTE(dares @ Nov 16 2020, 12:12 AM)
My point is as long as it is fit for it's designated function then it doesn't matter the size nor number of cylinders. RM40k car have 4 wheels so do you expect a RM80k car has 8 wheels?
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I believe 10-ton lorries have 6 wheels and 6L 6-cylinder non-Turbo engines. .......

https://chinatruck-clw.en.alibaba.com/produ...dimensions.html - best quality low price 6WD all wheel drive 10 ton lorry truck dimensions - US$34k
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desmond2020
post Nov 16 2020, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(tkh_1001 @ Nov 16 2020, 02:06 AM)
kenapa nak kecoh la aiyo

ford dah pakai 3 cylinder ecoboost loooongggg time ago apa bodo outdated peeps jakun pastu gado kat forum about 1 cylinder better the way he said he pebende
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When /k resident car expert think they are better than engineer of volvo in term of car knowledge
JoeK
post Nov 16 2020, 09:37 AM

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you suka then you buy
you no suka then dont buy

you dont buy but talk cock in internet forum then you bodo
s@ni
post Nov 16 2020, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(freeman1 @ Nov 15 2020, 03:42 PM)
Geely-Volvo’s CEVT engine boss explains why the Proton X50’s 3-cylinder is better than a 4-cylinder

[attachmentid=10685433]

[attachmentid=10685435]

...Removing one cylinder is also a super effective in cutting down weight, which is directly related to fuel consumption and exhaust emissions. There’s also the added benefit of achieving better front:rear weight balance in front-wheel drive cars, which is the norm these days anyway.

The benefits of a 3-cylinder over a 4 is very clear. The challenge is to mitigate the vibration problems from a 3-cylinder’s uneven firing order. Solving it is complex, but not difficult if you know what you are doing. Technology for dampers and today’s understanding of engine harmonics is good enough to allow car companies to overcome the problem.

The Geely 1.5TD engine, which Malaysians know as the 1.5 TGDi (identical to 1.5 MPI except for fuel system), contains many of such countermeasures into its engine design.

Explaining them requires a Ph.D but Sandquist briefly said the use of counterweighted crankshafts, dual mass flywheel with centrifugal pendulum absorber damper, single balancing shaft, low noise timing belt, high stiffness oil pan, asymmetric oil pump impeller, engine compartment and vibration dampener – all hidden away from view, allows the 3-cylinder to run very smoothly.

Dr Sandquist adds that vibration (lack of) of the 1.5TD engine is not only controlled, but it’s actually better than some of their rivals’ 4-cylinder engines...
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senang cerita tikus makmal la untuk geely+volvo? tunggu lagi 5 tahun untuk mature... sweat.gif

in malaysia, toyoda still no 1. oh wait
mamasos
post Nov 16 2020, 09:43 AM

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It just like AT change to CVT, 4 cylinders to 3. It’s all called manufacturer cost efficiency. Reduce costs earn more and make bullshit.
EngKokCiao
post Nov 16 2020, 09:46 AM

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Tim Cook also explained why removing the charging plug is better.
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 16 2020, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(lee82gx @ Nov 15 2020, 04:00 PM)
The way they put it, 1 cylinder is even better. Marketing jargons at its best
QUOTE(dogbert_chew @ Nov 16 2020, 03:38 AM)
One cylinder is perfect for the Honda Cub which vibrates like crazy. But it sold over 100 million units.

So less cylinders may be better depending on application.
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4-stroke 1-cylinder Honda Cub kapchai's do not vibrate like crazy. Maybe you are referring to those 2-stroke noisy and smoky kapchai's, eg Suzuki 110RG Sport.

Number and size of cylinders are optimized for the weight of the vehicle.

In the case of the still quite heavy-weight Proton X50 Compact SUV, the car-maker is very likely maximizing profits(= save manufacturing costs) by reducing the number and size of cylinders from 4 to 3 cylinders and from >2.0L to 1.5L, by compensating with a turbo-charger, which IRL causes the consumers to pay more for fuel consumption.
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kidmad
post Nov 16 2020, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(Avex @ Nov 15 2020, 03:45 PM)
4 cylinder is best. can even get higher boost through chip, easily 250bhp
if 3 cylinder is better than 4, so 1 cylinder is better than 2, so 1 cylinder is enough as well
electric even better, instant power
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human not yet reach there ma... straight go for 1 now.. tak cukup power to jalan later. hahaha
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 16 2020, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 15 2020 @ 06:44 PM)
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive...rticle29705614/ - The trouble with turbos: Why fuel economy can be worse, not better - 22 April 2016

https://carbuzz.com/features/this-is-why-tu...conomy-is-a-lie - This Is Why Turbocharged Fuel Economy Is A Lie
Jan 30, 2018 by Roger Biermann Opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aO2vC_iMTI - Why Small Turbo Engines Are Not Efficient - 1,191,446 views - Aug 1, 2018
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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 15 2020 @ 11:44 PM)
https(colon)//www(dot)wapcar(dot)my/news/are-3cylinder-engines-as-good-as-4cylinder-engines-1832 - Are 3-cylinder engines as good as 4-cylinder engines? - Shaun · Apr 10, 2020
And if you’re able to recall, I’m sure there was a noticeable amount of vibration from the engine. That is one of the characteristics of a 3-cylinder engine – the vibration. It’s a rough feeling and because of that, most of us, myself included, have the perception that 3-cylinder engines are on the bottom-rung.

Yet, they seem to be on the rise with both the Proton X50 and Toyota GR Yaris featuring 3-cylinder engines. Even premium brands like BMW and Volvo are employing 3-cylinder engines in their cars. Why is that?

One of the reasons is cost. With one less cylinder than the conventional 4-cylinder engine, the raw materials required is lesser and when this is calculated at scale, the cost savings becomes significant. ...

The main problem with 3-cylinder engines is the vibration as mentioned earlier, particularly at low rpm. Without getting too much into detail, this is due to the imbalanced nature of 3-cylinder engines that causes them to rock about.

Manufacturers tackle this issue by adding a balancing shaft to counteract the force and a variety of solutions that I’m not able to presently comprehend so I’ll just call it witchcraft. BMW seem to have got it right, their 3-cylinder engine exhibits very little perceivable vibration, perhaps only during startup.

The engine in the Geely Binyue, or what is likely to be Proton X50, isn’t quite as accomplished. The 1.5-litre turbocharged 3-cylinder engine, which is co-developed with Volvo, feels even rougher at start up and has just a bit more vibration than the BMW unit. Though for me it is perfectly acceptable.

There is also the matter of sound. To some, 3-cylinder engines sound rough, especially when revved hard. But personally, I quite like it. One way manufacturers attempt to overcome this is to produce synthetic engine noise in the cabin through the speakers. ....


https://www.carthrottle.com/post/heres-the-...linder-engines/ - Here's The Problem With Three-Cylinder Engines - 3 years ago.
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So, the main reason car-makers reduced from the normal 4-cylinder to 3-cylinder and from >2.0L to 1.5L Turbo is to save manufacturing costs = maximize profits, not to benefit the consumers with better fuel efficiency. In fact, true IRL fuel consumption for the Proton X50 is worse.
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QUOTE(dares @ Nov 16 2020, 12:17 AM)
I am well aware of the shortcomings of a 3-cylinder. I myself not a fan of anything less than 4-pots or turbocharged.

But I am very annoyed with the misinformations being disseminated in this thread.
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To me, the misinformation is being disseminated by the car-makers and car-trade news media.
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icehart85
post Nov 16 2020, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(dares @ Nov 16 2020, 12:12 AM)
I was referring to this paragraph in the article
Engine mountings are not mentioned, but they are obviously wear and tear parts in any engine.

If say you wanna argue that modern 3-cylinder engine mountings die faster than 4 cylinders, that is debatable too.
Engine internal parts are not regular wear and tear parts. Which 3-cylinder engine you know needs to have internals replaced every 5 years?

And where did you pick that 5 years figure from?
My point is as long as it is fit for it's designated function then it doesn't matter the size nor number of cylinders. RM40k car have 4 wheels so do you expect a RM80k car has 8 wheels?
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1) Engine mounts are part of vibration dampers, if you havent realized their function

2) The 5 year figure is the typical age when the infamous lifetime transmission fluid failed. To the car manufacturers, lifetime of a car is 5 years or less.


dares
post Nov 16 2020, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 16 2020, 09:58 AM)
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To me, the misinformation is being disseminated by the car-makers and car-trade news media.
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ktards ain't doing any better here either.

QUOTE(icehart85 @ Nov 16 2020, 10:11 AM)
1) Engine mounts are part of vibration dampers, if you havent realized their function

2) The 5 year figure is the typical age when the infamous lifetime transmission fluid failed. To the car manufacturers, lifetime of a car is 5 years or less.
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The "vibration damper" mentioned in that article is a specific engine part usually built as part of the crank pulley. It is not related to the engine mount. steady bro, just FYI.

QUOTE
user posted image


Like I asked, which 3 cylinder engine you know need this part replaced after 5 years? or any other engine internal parts referred to in that article?

You guys keep mentioning engine mount, I already addressed it in my post replying to steady bro.

As for vehicle lifetime, you're just taking that "lifetime fluid" as reference and running with it. If manufacturer deem the car's lifetime to be 5 years, why do some markets enjoy 7-10 yrs warranties on their cars? in fact in Malaysia some Ford cars get 7 years warranty on clutch parts and 10 years for the transmission controller. Why bother with such long warranties if they don't think the car can last that long?

https://www.aarp.org/auto/trends-lifestyle/...-cars-last.html

QUOTE
Such improvements are increasing not only cars’ lifespans, but manufacturer warranties. Three years, 36,000 miles used to be standard, but 10-year, 100,000-mile warranties are becoming the norm.


This post has been edited by dares: Nov 16 2020, 12:18 PM
steady bro
post Nov 16 2020, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ Nov 16 2020, 12:14 PM)
ktards ain't doing any better here either.
The "vibration damper" mentioned in that article is a specific engine part usually built as part of the crank pulley. It is not related to the engine mount. steady bro, just FYI.
Like I asked, which 3 cylinder engine you know need this part replaced after 5 years? or any other engine internal parts referred to in that article?

You guys keep mentioning engine mount, I already addressed it in my post replying to steady bro.

As for vehicle lifetime, you're just taking that "lifetime fluid" as reference and running with it. If manufacturer deem the car's lifetime to be 5 years, why do some markets enjoy 7-10 yrs warranties on their cars? in fact in Malaysia some Ford cars get 7 years warranty on clutch parts and 10 years for the transmission controller. Why bother with such long warranties if they don't think the car can last that long?

https://www.aarp.org/auto/trends-lifestyle/...-cars-last.html
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thanks bro for the detailed info, appreciate it

anyway, most of the 3 cyl engine cars we see today are mostly 2 types

1) lower output 3 cyl engines from the japanese makes, new almera, new city, vios etc, less than 125hp( there is the yaris gr but thats not what most ppl will buy so lets ignore it), these cars are relatively new to the market so its still early to judge their reliability, but these are lower output 3cyl engines, so they dont require the kind of technologies found in a higher output 3 cyl engine

2) higher output 3 cyl engines from the contis, bmw, mini etc with at least 170hp, these cars are out quite long ledi and their 3 cyl engines proven to be reliable and dont have those issues like excessive vibration etc
but lets not forget conti cars have the latest and state of the art technology compared to other makes, more technology means more expensive to maintain, parts are also much more expensive than other makes

and now we have the new proton x50, a high output 3 cyl engine and it performs like a conti 3 cyl engine (little vibration, little noise etc), so is it using conti cars technologies to achieve the same result as a conti 3 cyl?
if yes then the maintenance costs will also be around conti cars level

so for me i will just avoid this kind of car first and see how it goes first, now is still too early to judge , need more ppl to be the lab rats first haha

dogbert_chew
post Nov 16 2020, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(zenix @ Nov 16 2020, 04:10 AM)
3cyc minimum for car if 2cyc then become motor bike engine lol
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Yep, eg..
https://paulinetan.org/2014/10/02/volkswage...l-sport-ducati/

Meanwhile, Can't decide between Triumph Trident vs CB650R wink.gif

This post has been edited by dogbert_chew: Nov 16 2020, 01:53 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 16 2020, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 16 2020 @ 09:58 AM)
To me, the misinformation is being disseminated by the car-makers and car-trade news media.
QUOTE(dares @ Nov 16 2020, 12:14 PM)
ktards ain't doing any better here either.
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The "vibration damper" mentioned in that article is a specific engine part usually built as part of the crank pulley. It is not related to the engine mount. steady bro, just FYI.

Like I asked, which 3 cylinder engine you know need this part replaced after 5 years? or any other engine internal parts referred to in that article?

You guys keep mentioning engine mount, I already addressed it in my post replying to steady bro.

As for vehicle lifetime, you're just taking that "lifetime fluid" as reference and running with it. If manufacturer deem the car's lifetime to be 5 years, why do some markets enjoy 7-10 yrs warranties on their cars? in fact in Malaysia some Ford cars get 7 years warranty on clutch parts and 10 years for the transmission controller. Why bother with such long warranties if they don't think the car can last that long?

https://www.aarp.org/auto/trends-lifestyle/...-cars-last.html
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-three_engine
... however an end-to-end rocking couple is induced because there is no symmetry in the piston velocities about the middle piston. A balance shaft is sometimes used to reduce the vibrations caused by the rocking couple. ....

The straight-three versions of the Ford EcoBoost engine - a turbocharged 1.0-litre petrol engine - was introduced in the 2012 Ford Focus. It uses of an unbalanced flywheel to shift the inherent three-cylinder imbalance to the horizontal plane where it is more easily managed by engine mounts, and so remove the need to use balancer shafts. In 2016, cylinder deactivation was added, claimed to be a world first for three-cylinder engines. ...


https(colon)//paultan(dot)org/2014/05/02/ford-fiesta-1-0l-ecoboost-launched-rm96500/ - 2014/05/02/ford-fiesta-1-0l-ecoboost-launched-rm96500/
(Img)https(colon)//s2.paultan(dot)org/image/2014/05/Price-List-PM.pdf-1-1200x1594.jpg(/img)
Dimension(L W H) = 3982mm X 1722 X 1489

https://kereta.info/ford-fiesta-in-malaysia...specifications/ - FORD FIESTA IN MALAYSIA > PRICE & SPECIFICATIONS - by iz · October 25, 2010
FORD FIESTA 5-DR 1.4L MANUAL - Cylinder – Inline 4
Length X Width X Height (mm) – 3,950 X 1,722 X 1,475


To save on manufacturing costs = maximize profits, downsizing the Ford Fiesta hatchback engine from 1.4L 4-cylinder to 1.0L Turbo 3-cylinder introduced a host of unnecessary engine noise and vibration problems that needed to be dampened, various under-powered conditions and higher fuel consumption IRL, which did not actually benefit the consumers one bit.
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 16 2020, 02:18 PM
SUSfuzzy
post Nov 16 2020, 02:13 PM

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Dr. Håkan Sandquist is the Director of Powertrain Strategy at CEVT China Euro Vehicle Technology. He has spent over 20 years researching and developing powertrain technologies for Volvo, Geely, and other engineering firms. Dr. Sandquist received his Ph.D in Internal Combustion Engines at Chalmers University of Technology in 2001 and has been working with powertrain electrification for more than 10 years.

vs

k/tard armchair engineer

whistling.gif


shakku
post Nov 16 2020, 02:16 PM

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Once you tried inline-6 engine smoothness, difficult to go down biggrin.gif
otai_g
post Nov 16 2020, 02:24 PM

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y not using 4 inline engine?
more power full.
230kmh in hand.
ZzZzz...
post Nov 16 2020, 02:29 PM

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3 cylinder long run sure wear and tear worse than 4 cylinder, stnad from physic point of view
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 16 2020, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(fuzzy @ Nov 16 2020, 02:13 PM)
Dr. Håkan Sandquist is the Director of Powertrain Strategy at CEVT China Euro Vehicle Technology. He has spent over 20 years researching and developing powertrain technologies for Volvo, Geely, and other engineering firms. Dr. Sandquist received his Ph.D in Internal Combustion Engines at Chalmers University of Technology in 2001 and has been working with powertrain electrification for more than 10 years.

vs

k/tard armchair engineer

whistling.gif
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Fyi, .......
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https://www.thelocal.se/20200123/volvo-in-h...ssions-cheating - Volvo in hot water over claim of emissions cheating - 23 Jan 2020

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/0...line/103184598/ - 2017/06/25/takata-air-bag-scandal-timeline/

https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-1...ory?id=22972214 - toyota-pay-1.2b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/ - 20 March 2014.
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