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 Here's why X50 3-cylinder engine is better than 4

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dares
post Nov 15 2020, 10:41 PM

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Good god the sohai logic being peddled here.....

if 3 cylinder better why not 2 cylinder or 1 cylinder?
because 3-cylinder is the minimum? If manufacturers can make 2 cylinder engines without them vibrating out of the car, they will most definitely do so. In fact the new breed of Ford ecoboost 3-cylinder engine have cylinder deactivation technology, so the engine only runs on 2 cylinders when cruising.

3 cylinder less reliable
Malaysians have been driving 3-cylinder cars for donkey years and praise that brand to be super reliable. Why suddenly now 3-cylinder = unreliable.

Turbo is for expensive cars that owners don't care about fuel economy
Obviously, those small turbo made for economy cars are not the same as big turbos/twinturbos/biturbos/quadturbos you find on luxury cars.

All those additional engine parts to reduce vibration will be expensive to replace
Except for the timing belt, the other parts are not wear and tear parts and are designed to last the lifetime of the engine. Those old 3-cylinder that vibrate like washing machine, how often do you replace the flywheel?


dares
post Nov 15 2020, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(keaizer @ Nov 15 2020, 10:34 PM)
1 cost u 20-40k

The other one cost u double
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I guess when you buy shoes you also buy the largest size because it costs the same as the smaller size.
dares
post Nov 15 2020, 11:00 PM

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QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ Nov 15 2020, 10:46 PM)
actually is there any reason why they dont want do 2 cylinder with higher CC ?

example:

2.0L = 4 cylinder = each cylinder 500C

2.0L = 2 cylinder = each cylinder 1000C

hard to achieve high compression ratio?
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2 cylinders in a 4 stroke engine will need a heavier flywheel to keep the engine turning (because 50% of the time there is no power stroke).

Heavier flywheel and heavier pistons limits the speed the engine can turn because they are....heavier.

then of course there is the matter of vibrations like 3 pot engines, but worse.

They are usually used in compact and lightweight application like small city cars and bikes.

This post has been edited by dares: Nov 15 2020, 11:00 PM
dares
post Nov 16 2020, 12:12 AM

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QUOTE(imperialrealcs @ Nov 15 2020, 11:20 PM)
all your point i agree, your last point however i dont agree because engine mounting (in fact, any rubber mount/bush) is a wear and tear parts just that they last longer.
just recently i changed my car engine mounting. issues like jerking gear change almost gone already since the engine can grip better now.
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QUOTE(steady bro @ Nov 15 2020, 11:26 PM)
so engine mounts dont need to change? engine vibrate more u need stronger engine mounts to withstand the vibration right? tell me which car dont need to change engine mounts after 6-7 years, i want to buy a car that the engine mount last a lifetime also
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I was referring to this paragraph in the article

QUOTE
Explaining them requires a Ph.D but Sandquist briefly said the use of counterweighted crankshafts, dual mass flywheel with centrifugal pendulum absorber damper, single balancing shaft, low noise timing belt, high stiffness oil pan, asymmetric oil pump impeller, engine compartment and vibration dampener – all hidden away from view, allows the 3-cylinder to run very smoothly.


Engine mountings are not mentioned, but they are obviously wear and tear parts in any engine.

If say you wanna argue that modern 3-cylinder engine mountings die faster than 4 cylinders, that is debatable too.


QUOTE(icehart85 @ Nov 15 2020, 11:23 PM)
Yes lifetime, which is 5 years max. Ever heard of lifetime transmission no need to replace transmission oil? LOL
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Engine internal parts are not regular wear and tear parts. Which 3-cylinder engine you know needs to have internals replaced every 5 years?

And where did you pick that 5 years figure from?

QUOTE(keaizer @ Nov 15 2020, 11:25 PM)
skrg ni nk sembang kereta ke kasut?
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My point is as long as it is fit for it's designated function then it doesn't matter the size nor number of cylinders. RM40k car have 4 wheels so do you expect a RM80k car has 8 wheels?

This post has been edited by dares: Nov 16 2020, 12:14 AM
dares
post Nov 16 2020, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 15 2020, 11:44 PM)
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https(colon)//www(dot)wapcar(dot)my/news/are-3cylinder-engines-as-good-as-4cylinder-engines-1832 - Are 3-cylinder engines as good as 4-cylinder engines? - Shaun · Apr 10, 2020
And if you’re able to recall, I’m sure there was a noticeable amount of vibration from the engine. That is one of the characteristics of a 3-cylinder engine – the vibration. It’s a rough feeling and because of that, most of us, myself included, have the perception that 3-cylinder engines are on the bottom-rung.

Yet, they seem to be on the rise with both the Proton X50 and Toyota GR Yaris featuring 3-cylinder engines. Even premium brands like BMW and Volvo are employing 3-cylinder engines in their cars. Why is that?

One of the reasons is cost. With one less cylinder than the conventional 4-cylinder engine, the raw materials required is lesser and when this is calculated at scale, the cost savings becomes significant. ...

The main problem with 3-cylinder engines is the vibration as mentioned earlier, particularly at low rpm. Without getting too much into detail, this is due to the imbalanced nature of 3-cylinder engines that causes them to rock about.

Manufacturers tackle this issue by adding a balancing shaft to counteract the force and a variety of solutions that I’m not able to presently comprehend so I’ll just call it witchcraft. BMW seem to have got it right, their 3-cylinder engine exhibits very little perceivable vibration, perhaps only during startup.

The engine in the Geely Binyue, or what is likely to be Proton X50, isn’t quite as accomplished. The 1.5-litre turbocharged 3-cylinder engine, which is co-developed with Volvo, feels even rougher at start up and has just a bit more vibration than the BMW unit. Though for me it is perfectly acceptable.

There is also the matter of sound. To some, 3-cylinder engines sound rough, especially when revved hard. But personally, I quite like it. One way manufacturers attempt to overcome this is to produce synthetic engine noise in the cabin through the speakers. ....


https://www.carthrottle.com/post/heres-the-...linder-engines/ - Here's The Problem With Three-Cylinder Engines - 3 years ago.
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So, the main reason car-makers reduced from the normal 4-cylinder to 3-cylinder and from >2.0L to 1.5L Turbo is to save manufacturing costs = maximize profits, not to benefit the consumers with better fuel efficiency. In fact, true IRL fuel consumption for the Proton X50 is worse.
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I am well aware of the shortcomings of a 3-cylinder. I myself not a fan of anything less than 4-pots or turbocharged.

But I am very annoyed with the misinformations being disseminated in this thread.

This post has been edited by dares: Nov 16 2020, 12:17 AM
dares
post Nov 16 2020, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(steady bro @ Nov 16 2020, 12:30 AM)
and another person mentioned about dampers and balancing shaft too, dampers are wear and tear too, together wif engine mounts, these will wear out faster if the engine vibrates stronger

and u mentioned that engine mount wear on 3 cyl engine is debatable, but basic science logic, if something vibrates stronger, it will require more damping force to smooth out the vibration and thus will reduce the lifespan of the damper

of course there are cases that those conti cars with 3 potters their engine mount still last as long as those cars with 4 cyl, but to achieve that, the materials used in the mounts are stronger and higher grade and customized, this means those mounts will be much more expensive than a standard mount in a 4 cyl engine

the extra costs of replacing the wear n tear parts will be passed on to the consumers

manufacturers are happy cos the engine is cheaper to manufacture and it pass emission tests, but consumers cry when its time to change those wear and tear parts
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I'm not sure in that paragraph what exactly is that dampener, could just be a spring, in which case it would last very long. You could be right too, but none of us in this thread knows, but somehow /ktards know it will not last long and very expensive to replace.

As for the mounting, you could well be correct in some cases as well; On the other hand, the Ford Fiesta engine mounts price between the 4 cylinder NA and 3 cylinder turbocharged, the price is less than RM100 difference and longevity-wise not that much difference too.

Like it or not, many carmakers are moving towards 3-cylinders in a big way, so it makes sense that a lot has been invested in rectifying some of the flaws. If it turns out a 3 cylinder will be more expensive to maintain compared to a 4-cylinder, alot of consumers will be pissed.

This post has been edited by dares: Nov 16 2020, 12:44 AM
dares
post Nov 16 2020, 12:50 AM

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Also, for those who say 3-cylinder cannot make big power:

Toyota's latest hothatch the 2020 GR Yaris makes 268hp and 370Nm from a 1.6l turbocharged......3 cylinder engine.

But not a squeak heard from /k's car "experts", maybe because it's toyota so it's OK.

This post has been edited by dares: Nov 16 2020, 12:51 AM
dares
post Nov 16 2020, 01:32 AM

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QUOTE(steady bro @ Nov 16 2020, 01:09 AM)
cannot be just a spring, if its a spring only the engine will bounce up and down, should be like a shock absorber to absorb the bounce (similar to car suspension struts)

well u are using a 1L turbo 125hp 175nm car to compare, but a more powerful and bigger engine like the one in x50, 175hp 255nm will produce a much stronger vibration, and hence stronger mounts and other workarounds like dampers, balancing shafts etc is needed compared to a lower output 3 cyl engine

but of course need to confirm with proton first how much is the mounts cos now we all also unsure hahhaha
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Ya we just wait n see.

TBH I don't expect parts to be cheap for X70 or X50, at least not as cheap as other campro Proton cars.

Inb4 6 months pon x dapat spare part lagi.
dares
post Nov 16 2020, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 16 2020, 09:58 AM)
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To me, the misinformation is being disseminated by the car-makers and car-trade news media.
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ktards ain't doing any better here either.

QUOTE(icehart85 @ Nov 16 2020, 10:11 AM)
1) Engine mounts are part of vibration dampers, if you havent realized their function

2) The 5 year figure is the typical age when the infamous lifetime transmission fluid failed. To the car manufacturers, lifetime of a car is 5 years or less.
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The "vibration damper" mentioned in that article is a specific engine part usually built as part of the crank pulley. It is not related to the engine mount. steady bro, just FYI.

QUOTE
user posted image


Like I asked, which 3 cylinder engine you know need this part replaced after 5 years? or any other engine internal parts referred to in that article?

You guys keep mentioning engine mount, I already addressed it in my post replying to steady bro.

As for vehicle lifetime, you're just taking that "lifetime fluid" as reference and running with it. If manufacturer deem the car's lifetime to be 5 years, why do some markets enjoy 7-10 yrs warranties on their cars? in fact in Malaysia some Ford cars get 7 years warranty on clutch parts and 10 years for the transmission controller. Why bother with such long warranties if they don't think the car can last that long?

https://www.aarp.org/auto/trends-lifestyle/...-cars-last.html

QUOTE
Such improvements are increasing not only cars’ lifespans, but manufacturer warranties. Three years, 36,000 miles used to be standard, but 10-year, 100,000-mile warranties are becoming the norm.


This post has been edited by dares: Nov 16 2020, 12:18 PM
dares
post Nov 16 2020, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Nov 16 2020, 02:39 PM)
Well you look at the x50 now, only offer 5 years unlimited mileage. What does that tell you?

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It tells me Malaysian car buyers are being shortchanged everywhere by being given only 5 years warranty with every car sold. Meanwhile in China the very same engine in the Geely Binyue comes with 8 years warranty.

You made a blanket statement that carmakers deem 5 yrs being the lifetime of their cars. I told you that is false. That's the end of it.

QUOTE(touristking @ Nov 16 2020, 03:25 PM)
You don't know what you are talking about.

Many people wanted more power and turbocharging is a CHEAPER ways to get those extra power. Ever wondered why there are so many turbo charged diesel pickup in Malaysia?
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Read carefully, the bolded part is what the other ktards said, the unbolded part is my reply to those allegations. Basically I am in agreement with you.

This post has been edited by dares: Nov 16 2020, 04:02 PM

 

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