this may sound even more stupid, but i have no idea what u're talking about.

the point of this thread is why u should never be scared of failing. if u get it the other way around, maybe u should read again .

Azarimy, can you pls elaborate for us the pointers for each honours (1st class, 2nd upper class etc) cos I don't have a single idea of it. Thx.

pointers? u mean the numerical value of it?

the value varies from university to university, hence why i only put an instance in my example earlier. some universities may have 1st class starting from 3.75, others may be about 3.65. on the other hand, 2nd class upper may be from 3.30, others as low as 2.90.

yes, it varies too much that it's hard to make an objective comment.

Erm, probably different systems I guess. I'm taking ADP right now, and I have the option to withdraw from subject(s) by a certain date of a semester. However there'll be a "W" (Withdrawal) in my transcript. Would it be any different (as in impressions, acceptance, scholarships, etc.) from having an "F" (Fail) in the transcript? In both cases I'd still need to take up the subject in future semesters.

This post has been edited by Crazy.SoT.Gila: Jun 19 2008, 01:04 AM

ops, i read back again n i found my little misunderstanding.
anyway in my other point, that my perspective...i should study really hard.

it makes no difference between a withdrawal and a failure if u can replace ur credits later on.

2nd upper class and 2nd lower class, i know its different but is it so 'ketara'?
i mean get a job, is it make any change of salary? i mean big changes?

I think he explained until quite simple already.



In this case
Let's say a student get grade B for subject M, grade A for subject N and grade C for subject O.

According to the pointer set by the examination,


So,
Since subject M is worth 6 credits, it'd be 6 credits x 3.00 = 18 grade point
Since subject N is worth 2 credits, it'd be 2 credits x 4.00 = 8 grade point
Since subject O is worth 3 credits, it'd be 3 credits x 2.00 = 6 grade point

So the total is 18 + 8 + 6 = 32 points and to get the GPA you'll need to divide it by 11 credits (6 credits for subject M + 2 credits for subject N + 3 credits for subject O) so in the end you'll get 2.91 GPA for Semester 1.



This post has been edited by Demonic Wrath: Jun 24 2008, 07:07 PM

Sorry, but I think the system will still take the results with a higher grade. But the disadvantage is that you have to pay RM 200++ (depending the credits of the subject) to retake the subject. It's called UG (ULANG GRADE).

p/s: I'm sure that's the system in public university.

i couldnt say no bcoz i dont have the system for the entire IPTA, but that is how it is in UTM. and if UTM follows the system by the book, then i'm sure it applies to other universities as well.

and thanks to angel49 for the explanation!

Are you sure it will replace the old grade with the new one regardless of the results?

Can you still UG after getting C+?

yes. 2 reasons:

i. if they let u choose the higher, then they're putting someone's hand into the bowl that can decide or even change the results. that can easily lead to corruption.

ii. they dont want students to repeat subjects sesuka hati. only those who've failed subjects should repeat, bcoz they cant go any lower. if they allow u to choose whichever higher, kiasu students will extend themselves another year to repeat all those B subjects so that they can score an A. this will cause the university bcoming bloated with extending students who shouldve graduated sucessfully.

does anyone know how the CGPA counted in UKM?
whats the grade for First Honour Degree and Second Upper?

azarimy, you thanked the wrong person

Anyway, I know UMS is using this calculation. That's why my senior tell me: if you think you can't make it, then fail the paper. Don't just barely pass.

lol. thanks demonic wrath

Azarimy,

I would like to correct you about the "DARE TO FAIL" advice to others.

No wonder Malaysian and UK degrees are so easy to get high CGPA scores.They could always rework/mend their failed grades given the extra time they get.

This is not the case in Australian Universities.Failing more subjects would mean dragging you down further actually.

Why?

In your case, failing a subject means resitting/reunit the whole subject giving it a fresh start.

With Australian degree programs let's assume you have 10 subjects in your degree program.

(This GPA calculation method is used by Australia and European countries such as in Germany)

Failing 2 subjects would mean dividing the total score by 12 not 10.

A+ = 7; A=6, B=5, C=4...so on A failed grade will result with a score of 1

Student A scored B in all his 10 subjects = 10 x 5 = 50/10subjects = Final score: 5.0/7.0(total band of 7), CGPA(max score is 4.0)

Student B failed 2 subjects among the 10 he sat with the rest of the subjects getting B
To add say he managed to get A for the 2 subjects which he reunit.(p=points)
= (5p x 8) + (2 x 1p) + (2 x 6p) = 54p / 12 (note the 2 failed subjects are added in) = 4.5/7.0???

See the contrast in quality and strictness for Australian/European(German/French/Swiss/Dutch) degree programs?
Despite, getting 2 distinctions for his subjects, student B will have his failed subjects listed down in his academic transcript as well as 'F' and he'll be questioned by employers for it.

Further advise:

In regards to some forumers asking about the difference between 'W' and 'F'.Here's a proper answer:

Australian Universities allow you a cooling off period of 1 month when a subject commences.Should you feel that you can't cope with your studies with too much workload, you can always widthraw/drop the subject and postpone it the in the future semesters(further time delay).So getting an 'W' is just merely prolonging your study period but it's a safe take to avoid being penalized with a miserable 1.0 score point.

When you get a 'F' there's no turning back."Macam nasi sudah bertukar bubur".You'll have the 'F' engraved in your degree permanently forever and extra 1.0 point to pull your GPA score down further.Your only hope is to complete the degree by passing all your required subjects.A point of no return.

This post has been edited by ark890: Jul 23 2008, 12:21 PM

does the calculation include all subjects taken in ur degree(1st,2nd,3rd year etc) or just 3rd year subjects(or in aussie degree only the honours year subject is used?)? from wat i've read its based on the whole degree, right? for australian degree, do they use scaling to ensure only certain amount of students get 1st class honours?

This post has been edited by mrRighthand: Jul 23 2008, 02:15 PM

It includes all subjects involved in the degree program starting from the first year.

The Honours award in Australian University is solely by invitation only.You've got to be truly outstanding to be eligible for honours(it's like a national prestigious award) and it'll require you to take an extra year of studies(=more money and time).The Dean will single handedly pick the best students every year in his faculty to offer them this privilege.

There's no first class, second class or third in Australian degrees unlike the UK style where you can amend your CGPA score by resitting the failed subjects over and over if you fail and overwriting the old grades.

The final GPA score which you get will determine your degree's overall score.

An Australian degree with distinction would require you to have a GPA of >6.0.This alone is near impossible unless you have a string of As or A+(HD) in your academic transcript.The "Amohs" have some sense of pride in them, it is very hard to score in some of their papers especially the final year ones(if you're asian more likely they'll make it harder for you today).

You can consider a degree with a GPA of 6.0+ as first class but the Australians choose to humble you by calling it a degree with distinction, credit, pass and so on instead.

The more you fail, the more it's going to affect your overall score because each Fail(F) grade will contribute as an extra subject in your academic transcript.Your future employer may notice the number of times you fail a particular subject when he looks at your academic transcript.

I wouldn't worry about this if I were you.Most who study in Australian degrees are more worried about passing all their papers and getting the degree without delays.The papers are not easy and you would only have 1 attempt at them to really score.I feel this is a very good way to distinguish between real talents and normal people.

Their method of grade point calculation takes in consideration the number of times you fail.
There's no scaling or percentage quotas for first class in Australia.All merits are given strictly based on point cut-off ranges.

You've also asked about the honours year subjects being counted separately.That's true.If your grades fall below expectation, your honours degree will be downgraded to a postgraduate diploma + your normal degree.No honours degree will be rewarded.

This post has been edited by ark890: Jul 23 2008, 03:40 PM

this is actually a difference of philosophy in education rather than quality. the brits are very much into "life long learning" and "anybody can learn anything, given time". compare this with australian "score once for glory" and "everybody must do their best under the hardest situation".

there are advantages and disadvantages to these systems, but it doesnt make one inferior to the other. it just makes the UK system more suitable for those who're academically challenged, dyslexic, part time students, mature students and so on. australian loves glory, i'd give em that . making the degree harder to score drives the value up.

Actually as an Australian degree holder, I personally don't like the strict method of awarding a degree as well. It's almost impossible to score a distinction with your degree and we don't get the chance to tell employers that we have a first class honours degree.All we can only tell them is that we have a so and so bachelor degree with the following GPA point.It's really a disadvantage to us even after putting up with so much effort.

Most Malaysian employers are so accustomed to CGPA point system and when we tell them we have a GPA score of let's say 5.5, they go "huh"? GPA only goes up to 4 woh.So how do I know you are first class or not, your degree only tells 5.5/7.0 what class is your degree?

I have mentioned this earlier in some other thread about failing in Australian degree courses.Do not be surprised that even if you're a top SPM/STPM student, you might still fail a subject or 2 in your university program.Life at overseas can be hard sometimes because you need to work at the same time to support yourself.Enrolling 4-5 subjects in one semester at Australian universities can sometimes make you feel like committing suicide(no joke, I'm not exaggerating)).It can be really difficult especially final year ones, I went through that before and you'll be so happy if you manage to just pass them all at the end of the semester.