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 CGPA - how to calculate, and why u should dare to fail!

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TSazarimy
post Aug 16 2007, 11:36 PM, updated 5y ago

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what is this guide about?

this guide is written to assist university or college students to understand more about the grading system at tertiery education level. students are often trapped under the pretense that once they've failed, their grades can never go up again. this is fairly untrue in most of the cases. however it is important to note that not all tertiery education system follows the same CGPA system. what i've tabled out below are applicable to local IPTAs, several IPTSs and most UK based universities.

what is CGPA?

ultimately, CGPA is where everything boils down to in ur studies. it stands for Cummulative Grade Point Average, hence CGPA, which is an accumulation of all ur grade points divided to every single credit u take. CGPA is also the determining factor of whether u get to graduate with 1st class, 2nd class upper, 2nd class lower or 3rd class. however, the minimum point for each class differs from university to university. UTM for example classifies 1st class as 3.70 and above and 2nd class upper from 3.00 to 3.69. MMU on the other hand classifies 2nd class upper from 3.30 to 3.69.

what is calculated?

CGPA is calculated based on all subjects that u take. each subjects usually comes with a credit value. some less important subjects carry between 1 to 2 credits, more important ones carry 3 to 4, and the core subjects can carry between 5 to 8 credits each. also, there are subjects categorized as "compulsory attendance only" (hadir wajib sahaja) which usually carry 0 credits. these subjects hold no value, but failing it (due to poor attendance or whatever) will still hold u down from graduating successfully.

how is it calculated?

for each subject that u've successfully taken, a grade will be issued after the final exam. these grades each carry a specific point value. typically, A carries 4.00, B carries 3.00 and C carries 2.00. each of these points will be calculated based on the credit rating of each subject, and later summed up to give u ur GPA for that particular semester. for example:

semester 1

subject M (6 credits): B = 3.00
subject N (2 credits): A = 4.00
subject O (3 credits): C = 2.00

(6 x 3.00) + (2 x 4.00) + (3 x 2.00) = 32 total grade point for 11 credits. hence, your GPA for semester 1 is:

32 / 11 = 2.91 GPA for sem 1. since this is ur first semester, ur GPA is also ur CGPA.

semester 2

subject P (6 credits): A = 4.00
subject Q (3 credits): B = 3.00
subject R (3 credits): E = 0.00 (FAIL)
subject S (2 credits): B = 3.00

(6 x 4.00) + (3 x 3.00) + (3 x 0.00) + (2 x 3.00) = 39 total grade point for 14 credits. hence your GPA for semester 2 is:

39 / 14 = 2.79 GPA for sem 2

now that this is ur second semester, ur CGPA will be calculated by combining the two. however, a direct average is wrong. CGPA is calculated NOT based on the average of GPAs per semester, but based on grade points per credit that u take. to calculate ur CGPA based on the two semesters above:

[(total grade point for sem 1) + (total grade point for sem 2)] / total credit taken in all semesters

[(32) + (39)] / (11 + 14) = 2.84 CGPA

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


now, let's try the next semester where u retake the failed subject:

semester 3

subject R (3 credits): A = 4.00 (REPEATED SUBJECT)
subject T (3 credits): B = 3.00
subject U (3 credits): B = 3.00
subject V (3 credits): B = 3.00

(3 x 4.00) + (3 x 3.00) + (3 x 3.00) + (3 x 3.00) = 39 total grade point for 12 credits. hence your GPA for semester 3 is:

39 / 12 = 3.25 GPA.

now, how do u calculate ur CGPA when u have a repeated subject? here's the main rule: u recalculate the repeated subject by replacing the old grade with the new one. it means, in ur CGPA calculation, u never failed ur subject R, u actually scored A! lets see what it looks like:

[(grade points for sem 1) + (grade points for sem 2 excluding the failed subject) + (grade points for sem 3)] / [(credit for sem 1) + (credit for sem 2 excluding the failed subject) + (credit for sem 3)]

[(32) + (39 - 0) + (39)] / [(11) + (14 - 3) + (12)] = 110 / 34 = 3.24 CGPA!

a lot of students made the mistake of including the failed subject into the calculation despite having repeated it. here's what the wrong calculation usually looks like:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


implications

wrong calculations would lead to students being afraid to fail, simply bcoz the impression that failed subjects would drag the CGPA even further down. this is wrong. repeating the failed subject replaces the old grades. in ur CGPA, it is as if u've never failed before. most students would simply accept a C- or D+, which is usually the minimum passing rate, in hope that they dont have to ever repeat the subject, and hopefully score more subjects in time.

thing is, once u've got a D+/C-, it's very hard to catch up and drag ur pointers up. i strongly advise students whom ultimately concerned for their grades to DARE to fail and repeat it again. ofcourse, certain subjects are big enough that repeating means u have to extend another semester. well, if it means graduating between a 2nd class lower and a 2nd class upper, why not?

good luck! thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by azarimy: Sep 18 2008, 06:39 PM
TSazarimy
post Aug 17 2007, 12:05 AM

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if ur school actually permits u to do that, then yes, it will replace the old cgpa. however, the new grade will replace the old one regardless which one's higher. meaning, if u repeat subject A and failed, it will count as a fail and the original C is dissolved.

in any case, not many schools would allow u to repeat a subject that u did not fail.
TSazarimy
post Aug 17 2007, 06:13 PM

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this system seems unfair to the non-failers, isnt it?

now, lets address the most common misconception over this system. we are extremely conditioned to accept that failure is not an option, or fail = death since school. we even frown upon those who ever failed at something, anything. and those who've failed will carry with them a shoulder load of shame all their life. this is not a good environment to encourage learning.

this will only encourage people to find ways not to fail. some studied really hard, some studied smart and some cheated - all for the sake of not to fail. but that's missing the point entirely. we're talking about adult education, where people start to have more things to do other than study. the nature of tertiery education is independent learning, where a student is self motivated to learn, not bcoz the teacher's teaching or their parents says so.

the ability to fail and repeat the subject is an option previously unavailable in school. the cost of failing in school is simply unbearable. fail a subject, and u repeat the entire year. that's not very encouraging.

so in tertiery level education, u are given an opportunity to fail a particular subject and retake it in the future. yes, it does however come with several drawbacks:
    i. subjects are not always available every semester. failing a particular subject offered only once a year would mean u'd have to wait several months before resitting the subject again.

    ii. repeating a credit means paying the fees again. yes, u've paid for the previous credit that u've failed. but now u're retaking it again. so pay up!

    iii. repeating would often mean extending ur studies. literally, u wont be graduating the same year as 1st year friends. it's kinda weird going to convocations where u dont know the rest of the graduates.

    iv. learning with ur juniors might not be the same or as fun as learning with ur friends. but some guys find this a great way to get to know girls tongue.gif

TSazarimy
post Aug 17 2007, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(TeckPeow @ Aug 17 2007, 06:57 PM)
Subject V is 2 credits so it should be multiplied by 2 instead of 3?
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aiyaaah... dammit u're right. thanks for the heads up. too many numbers make me dizzy already rclxub.gif

corrected! again, thanks for the heads up!

This post has been edited by azarimy: Aug 17 2007, 07:03 PM
TSazarimy
post Jan 4 2008, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(yixings @ Jan 4 2008, 02:02 AM)
I think a good uni shouldn't grade according to fix points, else it will have tonnes of honour student.

Instead it should be awarded according to distribution.

Too bad that our local unis are pratising the former, so that the chancellors can claim that so many honour students are produced, hence their uni are the good one!

My experience of interviewing the first batch of a new local uni, out of a total of 105 graduates, 50 of them got 1st class, and the rest 2nd upper. I found this out because the dean gave me 40 resume which are all 1st class students!
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well, making honours harder to get can push the prestige of a school over the roof, but that doesnt quite work in universities that are struggling to even get into the top 100, where it can be counter productive. reason:

in mass education, we're always pushing to produce as many able professional graduates. although i'm not emphasizing quantity over quality, but producing mass quantities of people fulfilling the quality aspects. lets use an analogy of riding a bicycle. take 10 kids that has never ridden a bicycle before, and teach them how to ride. u give them "pass" if they could ride a bike for a few metres within a day, and distinction/honours if they could ride them all the way along the track without falling.

now, we all know not everyone CAN achieve honours in a day. but given time, everybody COULD be able to achieve honours or distinctions. so which is more important? churning out 1 or 2 honour students by constricting the title, or opening up where everybody, even the dyslexics to have a chance at honours? at the end of the day, employers would want quality workers. after graduation, the graduates apply more than they acquire (as opposed as in school), so employers need not worry if their honours students are slow learners.

and FYI, malaysian universities are not the only university practicing this grading method wink.gif
TSazarimy
post Jun 18 2008, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(Crazy.SoT.Gila @ Jun 18 2008, 01:30 PM)
Erm, this may sound stupid, but would it differ between having a "W" and "F" in the transcript?
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this may sound even more stupid, but i have no idea what u're talking about.

QUOTE(ujah @ Jun 18 2008, 02:11 PM)
wow, really scare to fail...after i reading this thread, i suppose to say that "u only have 1 shot if u don't want to turn back".
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the point of this thread is why u should never be scared of failing. if u get it the other way around, maybe u should read again wink.gif.
TSazarimy
post Jun 18 2008, 11:08 PM

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pointers? u mean the numerical value of it?

the value varies from university to university, hence why i only put an instance in my example earlier. some universities may have 1st class starting from 3.75, others may be about 3.65. on the other hand, 2nd class upper may be from 3.30, others as low as 2.90.

yes, it varies too much that it's hard to make an objective comment.
TSazarimy
post Jun 19 2008, 02:11 AM

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QUOTE(Crazy.SoT.Gila @ Jun 18 2008, 05:03 PM)
Erm, probably different systems I guess. I'm taking ADP right now, and I have the option to withdraw from subject(s) by a certain date of a semester. However there'll be a "W" (Withdrawal) in my transcript. Would it be any different (as in impressions, acceptance, scholarships, etc.) from having an "F" (Fail) in the transcript? In both cases I'd still need to take up the subject in future semesters.
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it makes no difference between a withdrawal and a failure if u can replace ur credits later on.
TSazarimy
post Jun 24 2008, 08:50 PM

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QUOTE(AskarPerang @ Jun 24 2008, 12:37 PM)
Sorry, but I think the system will still take the results with a higher grade. But the disadvantage is that you have to pay RM 200++ (depending the credits of the subject) to retake the subject. It's called UG (ULANG GRADE).

p/s: I'm sure that's the system in public university.
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i couldnt say no bcoz i dont have the system for the entire IPTA, but that is how it is in UTM. and if UTM follows the system by the book, then i'm sure it applies to other universities as well.

and thanks to angel49 for the explanation!
TSazarimy
post Jun 24 2008, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(AskarPerang @ Jun 24 2008, 01:16 PM)
Are you sure it will replace the old grade with the new one regardless of the results?

Can you still UG after getting C+?
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yes. 2 reasons:

i. if they let u choose the higher, then they're putting someone's hand into the bowl that can decide or even change the results. that can easily lead to corruption.

ii. they dont want students to repeat subjects sesuka hati. only those who've failed subjects should repeat, bcoz they cant go any lower. if they allow u to choose whichever higher, kiasu students will extend themselves another year to repeat all those B subjects so that they can score an A. this will cause the university bcoming bloated with extending students who shouldve graduated sucessfully.
TSazarimy
post Jun 24 2008, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(Demonic Wrath @ Jun 24 2008, 03:03 PM)
azarimy, you thanked the wrong person biggrin.gif

Anyway, I know UMS is using this calculation. That's why my senior tell me: if you think you can't make it, then fail the paper. Don't just barely pass.
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lol. thanks demonic wrath biggrin.gif
TSazarimy
post Jul 23 2008, 04:09 PM

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this is actually a difference of philosophy in education rather than quality. the brits are very much into "life long learning" and "anybody can learn anything, given time". compare this with australian "score once for glory" and "everybody must do their best under the hardest situation".

there are advantages and disadvantages to these systems, but it doesnt make one inferior to the other. it just makes the UK system more suitable for those who're academically challenged, dyslexic, part time students, mature students and so on. australian loves glory, i'd give em that biggrin.gif. making the degree harder to score drives the value up.
TSazarimy
post Sep 18 2008, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(Soulsareworthless @ Sep 18 2008, 06:45 AM)
How do I convert A level grades into CGPA? For example I took 4 subjects and got AADD.
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u just average out the values of the grades. that's all. CGPA stands for cumulative grade point average, there's nothing cumulative in a single exam. so ur GPA would be to take A+A+D+D and divide by 4.

assuming A=4.0 and D=1.0, then ur GPA would be (4+4+1+1)/4 = 2.50gpa.

QUOTE(EquinoX @ Sep 18 2008, 07:25 AM)
Wow , this thread so useful , thanks smile.gif
I heard about this also from my sis which graduate from UPM in Engineering. Thats what she told me , she said that 1st and 2nd sem is almosy ur future. She said when 2nd and 3th year ur weightage(pemberat) increased , its harder and more harder to improve ur CGPA.
From what is see from previous thread, at 1st i though is like stpm counting, take the average one.

One i want to highlight is , if u score well in first 2years, the 3th years u can easy go on (For 3years graduate)
If u get 3.80 CGPA 2nd year. 5th and 6th sem , even u get 2.5CPA u will still continue get 3.5above or around right? bcz the weightage aready too much , if 5th sem u got 100credit hours, mean u need -100 to -1 CGPA , which mean almost impossible , cause we jus have not more 20credit hours, and not more 80pointers.
Right? Correct me if what i said was wrong thanks smile.gif
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well, it is generally true that scoring earlier would be easier for u to maintain higher grades, however i'm not sure i understand ur explanation in ur calculations biggrin.gif.

basically, the reason why scoring earlier is easier is bcoz the subjects tend to be easier, not the loading. and u live easier knowing that u have higher CGPA - people look up to u, lecturers are more open to u and u can brag with orang2 kampung about how good u are tongue.gif. but if u really look at it, scoring the last 2 years also produces the same average. so it doesnt really matter when u score as long as u score it. however i strongly suggest that u score earlier simply bcoz of the easier subject and the positive psychological effects.
TSazarimy
post Sep 19 2008, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(cutejams2004 @ Sep 19 2008, 12:34 PM)
my question here is, if just say i passed (barely), cant i retake the subject? cry.gif  if i knew this earlier, at least i would f just failed them
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typically, u're only required to repeat a subject IF and only IF u fail. some people begged their lecturers to give them minimum pass, but didnt know how bad it would affect their overall CGPA later on. when i wrote the article, it was to educate that sometimes failure is better than pass wink.gif.

but in ur case, talk to ur course supervisor. he may allow u to revert ur earlier pass into a fail and allow u to retake the subject.
TSazarimy
post Dec 22 2008, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(rapeace @ Dec 15 2008, 07:55 AM)
Nice thread at least now i know how to count my CGPA point !!! i am wondering, does attendance effect your CGPA ??
i know not coming for class will get you barred from taking Final but does it affect your CGPA points ?? rclxub.gif

Few people have been complaining that their result should be better but maybe because they ponteng a few class, that why their result is much lower than expected !! tongue.gif

I also ponteng class a few time but does it really matter ??
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sorry for the late reply.

no, attendance or commitment in class does not directly affect ur CGPA. what usually happens is that the lecturer puts 5% attendance marks in ur semester grades. this 5% mark normally is not enough to significantly affect ur overall grade, but a 0 is a definite 1 grade down. meaning if u're supposed to score A-, a 0% attendance is immediately a B+. the GPA difference between an A- and B+ is usually 3.70 and 3.30.

so that's how attendance could affect ur CGPA. but do remember that not all lecturers or subjects have a 5% attendance marks. it is up to the school's discretion to add that. if u're lucky, u might end up in a class that does not emphasis on attendance, so u can ponteng all u want wink.gif
TSazarimy
post Jan 1 2009, 01:37 AM

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QUOTE(eLL_lAzyPiG @ Dec 26 2008, 01:15 PM)
this is a great topic~guess that i have to study as hard as possible for my 1st semester in any college or uni
*
u should just study hard all the time tongue.gif
TSazarimy
post Feb 16 2009, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(gilagila007 @ Jan 10 2009, 05:38 PM)
hey, i want to know right, i failed a few subjects inmy college, so im retaking it, so when it adds up my new cgpa, will it replace the credit hours with the credithours that i failed, all will it just keep adding up and then count my cgpa?

OR IT REPLACES THE OLD FAILED CREDITHOURS? PLS. IM DYING HERE
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it depends on whether ur college follows the typical UK calculations.

apparently there are colleges in malaysia that doesnt replace the old failed credit hours. this burdens the students greatly and doesnt allow them to improve themselves.

QUOTE(levanter @ Jan 19 2009, 12:02 PM)
so just wondering, if an employer requires you a minimum of 3.2 cgpa, and you have an australian degree with a cgpa of 4.2, what is your cgpa if converted to uk style?
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first u gonna have to find a conversion value for the grades. typical UK value would be A=4.0, B=3.0, C=2.0, D=1.0. then u convert ALL ur grades according to this value and add them all up. then take ur credit hours for the subjects, add them all up. finally, take the total grade points and divide them with the total credit hours and u'll get the new converted CGPA.

TSazarimy
post Feb 17 2009, 10:59 AM

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do note that not every college/university allows students to repeat a low graded subjects. most of them only allow a repeat of failed subjects.
TSazarimy
post Feb 17 2009, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(Valkrie @ Feb 17 2009, 06:44 AM)
got formula for ths CGPA?
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oh for god's sake go and read the first post!
TSazarimy
post Jun 1 2009, 05:30 AM

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QUOTE(tcken @ May 31 2009, 09:21 PM)
Aww this is what I looking. Wondering my diploma cgpa can reach 2.20 or not. I have many resit subjects so its mean I only calculate for the pass paper only? those failed just ignore?
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which university/college are u in now? for IPTAs, u can follow this guide, but if u're in a private college, there are different ways of calculating CGPAs.

if u're referring to the system i've explained in this thread, then yes, u only calculate the grades based on the subjects u've retaken/resit and ignore the first ones that u failed. but if u havent retaken the subject, the failure will be counted. biggrin.gif.

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