any expert in this area?? I buy back 3 contract today @ 1383 ..


wonder how come the klci (1387 up 7.x) move a lot but the fkli still remain 1382 (only 2 point..) @ 11:19am .... I thought usually quite similar with the klci when month end ...

Mainly because recently the market volatility is high and also the index is facing huge resistance at 1390 level, has tried several time but not succeed, so discount a bit if anything goes wrong in overseas market. But a few point only, not significant, nothing to shout about. If market can stablise or creep a bit higher then the FKLI will close the gap eventually, still got 3 days to go for the JUL contract, anything can happen in this 3 days especially nowadays, market volatility is so high.

Current in KLSE, the shinning stars are those second and third liners and 'goreng' stock. Big cap like TNB, TM, Genting hardly move much nowadays.

my goodness.. just need to wait after lunch then I can make @1369 ..... 14*3*50 = rm 2100 ...

sell too early ...



This post has been edited by darenohh: Jul 26 2007, 05:32 PM

if tonight dow jones down again, tmr sure koyak...
the short term chart turning down liau... better stay out for the moment, very volatile during month end
consider to short a bit

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Added on July 27, 2007, 10:16 amanyone else here trading futures?

This post has been edited by laguna1811: Jul 27 2007, 10:16 AM

too late .. too late .......... I already long buy for august 2 @ 1362 and 1@ 1359 before the market close ...


now gone 4k ...

haha... regret didn short yesterday... got client come open account... no time to watch market... !@$#% kanasai...

erm... aug if dun rebound more then very jia lat lor... possible resistance area around 1350 level bah... boh pian cut losses short safer haha...

btw... y still buy yesterday... the chart turning down wor...

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Added on July 27, 2007, 11:57 amif break low... better sell... =,=
can earn back losses later 1... just dun lose all capital then can liau

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Added on July 27, 2007, 4:56 pmif today july can break 1345 then maybe hav chance to bound back to 1360 level...
good luck wer

This post has been edited by laguna1811: Jul 27 2007, 04:56 PM

i think monday also gone ...... dj and europe all in red !!!

need to cut to min loses ...

any suggestions on where to read up for investing in the futures market...online or books?

Ah.. futures - where all the gamblers gather.

in a way, but only if you liken the stock market as a gambling den! well, it's just another form of investment with leveraged returns, thus only for the risk takers (and deep pockets!)

Well, there is more of an investment factor when we buy stocksvas it involves R&D on the stocks.

However, the futures market is very close to gambling for small players like me.

I don't denied it somehow like gambling also but it depends how you treat it. Also, trading with FKLI, you need to make some study, not blindly sell or buy into it, otherwise, surely lose one. You need to monitor the index linked counters performance, not simply look at the index alone. See the counters like TNB, Maybank, MISC (index linked) etc are expensive or not. If too expensive, you can short the market since there is not much room for the upside, high probablity will have some correction. If the particular stocks are cheap and lot of fund are buying it, then you go long for the market. It is not simply trading with one day, hope when you bought then tomorrow goes up. You look for the bigger pictures and others factor like overseas market, interest rate issues etc. Also TA can be applied when trading with FKLI, at least you have some idea before trading, not simply buying or selling blindly.

Also when you bullish about the market and overall market is cheap (aka most stocks are cheap) and don't have any idea which stock to choose then you can opt to buy the futures, even when expired, roll it to next month (even roll for several yeras) then you basically are buying the index instead of buying stock, you still achieve the effect of buying stocks, gain from the market bullishness.

You can also use it tp hedge against the market, like you have plenty of index-linked counters, instead selling the shares, you opt to sell in the futures to protect your portfolio, this is more applicable to fund managers and big retailers who has plenty of shares across the index-linked counters.

Basically when you buy or sell in FKLI, you are basically buying/selling 100 stocks of the index linked stocks based on the weight ratio respectively.

It depends how you treat it. Even for stock, a lot of people treat like gambling instead of investment, just people not realised or admit it. Typically a lot of retailers heard some rumour of ABC 'goreng' stock will go up next week, without any research about the company just look at the price quote of the computer and daily price movement, they also bought the shares already, hope it will go up tomorrow or next then can make quick gain/contra gain from it. This also quite similar to gambling already, may be speculation is more suitable word.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 29 2007, 03:48 PM

with our see-saw markets nowadays you probably need a whole lot of luck too

u r gambling if u dun have any plan and just get into the game...

trading is not that easy man... go do some research b4 posting anything lar bro...

true .. besides .. also need the dare to take risk... as the study just a help be not always true ...

investing or trading all are taking risk
you need to plan ur strategy
it's a probability game
the odds are higher than normal gambling

trading is 10% skill, 30% money management and 60% psychology

But study is a must, it increases the chance of winning though not 100% or 90%. At least you know what are you doing rather blindly jump into it.

Just like sport, you need plenty of training, although doesn't mean necessary winning but without training, your have no chance or less chance of winning even you are talented.

there's no 100% chances to make money
u just take risk on higher probability with proper lot size
it's actually not so complicated, just many ppl make it so complicated

So how lar today? Shortie?

dunno lar
not clear so stay out loh ah haha
too late to short la...
now waiting for chance to long

i think today can go for long for aug contract ..

y do you think so?
bcos yesterday dow jones go up?

becos malaysia have lots of positive news , also going to election, also celebrate merdeka soon ... ( and malaysia boleh ... )

I already long 2 contract on last friday ... total make me have 5 contact on hand .. the average buying @ 1340 ... now dow is doing fine .. hopefully tomorrow up agian ...I will sell 2@ 1375 and rest @ 1380 for aughust fkli ..

Hope your futures are doing well, because you good means I am good also. Lets hope KLCI rise tomorrow.

dj ... negative news again... wtf ... currently down 18 points..

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Added on August 1, 2007, 4:18 amgone loh!!!! DJ - 145 ++

This post has been edited by darenohh: Aug 1 2007, 04:18 AM

for long term i think the market is still up
but this time correction maybe will be deep... that's y i dun wan to long yet
somemore yesterday the chart bounce back to the resistance level... so... so dun dare to long also

cannot just look at news 1 lar... those hedge funds control market 1 lol... just follow the market...

good luck ya

p.s wah seh... u always post at 3am de wor...

OMG, yesterday up 20 pts today down 20 pts. Very voilatile!!

I wonder anyone here plays CPO futures ?

lol
damn yesterday gone up so much made me dun dare to short
now too late lor~
but now conform it will go down more le... but boh hua la short now
#@$%#@^

FKLI down 57 pts!!!!

Means how much to lose from the opening today? 1 point = rm50?

Yes, 1 point = RM50

so one contract mean gain/loss = 2,850

It is hard to play in this market now, it is not up to the KLSE alone, the world market is influenced by the US market. With subprime issues keep on popping up and surfacing, you don't know when it will stop. Today the an Australian Macquire issue warning about fund loss and the near collapse of The American Home added salt in the wound.

Europe is expecting to open with significant loss after yesterday sharp rise and for time being, DJ futures is expected to trade down more than 100 points loss.

lol...
trust the chart
damn gap up gap down made me scare to short lol

no make money shorting, then wait chance to long lor lol

Now the most important is you have enough 'bullet'

That's why I keep on mentioning on previos posts, always keep enough cash to prepare for the worst.

money management

damn.. i cut and stop the blood .. now no more contract on hand .... loss 15k....

lol
it's better to stop loss than to letting loss run
proper money management is the key

cherroy is correct, save your bullets, dont let it run out. Wait to the right timing to enter.

yup .. I cut and save the bullet .. with lots of negative news .. i think dj will down again to night ... hope i am wrong .. else this might begin of the crisis ... this year is 07 ...

i dun think crisis will come so soon, those hedge funds wont just play so little 1
1st rule in trading is to survive, once u lose ur capital then is game over liau profit later

I think i can't participle in fkli .... cause going to work in China end of this month.... .. dun know when will back to malaysia again...

Never mind, you can take the opportunity to know more about the China market and maybe you can register an account there and trade their shares ler?...

Anyway, good luck!

china market is crazy ... dun dare to go it as it is already very high .. but still ..people keep go in !!

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Added on August 2, 2007, 4:59 amDJ up 150++ klse sure green ..

This post has been edited by darenohh: Aug 2 2007, 04:59 AM

I won't play in this market currently, too risky, each day is different now, it all depends on US market now. No news, market goes up, got subprime or credit crunch issues stock plunge.

If you notice careful of last night DJ, the 150points is only occured at last 20 minutes of the session, prior 30 minutes before the close, the DJ is hovering at neutral point to slightly red. So it is pre-mature to say the whole market is stablise already.

Actually fkli can be used as a hedging tool for your portfolio. If your portfolio is huge and your average beta is very close to KLSE's you could actually use it to lock your portfolio from fluctuations. It isn't a perfect hedge but is an alternative for you if you do not want to liquidate your entire portfolio because of fluctuations. However you have to balance the number of short contract positions to your portfolio.

yup, that's the purpose of FKLI anyway as hedging tool. But for most retail investor, it's used as speculation tool.

Yeah, most will liquidate all their stocks to speculate in the futures market.

Actually FLKI is also used to create a market neutral position whereby you make the stock neutral to market influences but open only to the stock's strenghts, prospects and weakneses.

Another use for FLKI is for exiting very huge positions in the KLCI. If a fund wants to exit a position huge enough to influence the market, the fund could have short position and exit their funds. This is because if you exit huge positions your sale orders will not all be taken at a good price. The shortcoming is made up by your short positions in the FLKI.

Another use is by simmilar means as the above but purely for market manipulation. I am not elaborating on this.

Yup that's why those foreign investor, manipulator, jaws whatever u called it, will always win when exiting. Capital appreciation from the stock and gain from FKLI.

This had been done back 1997 financial crisis, hedge fund short the equities and respectively country currency simultaneously since they know they exit the market in big way as well as short the market which increase the currency downward pressure.

That's why until now KLSE is not permitting openly short selling of stock, only regulated short-selling allowed. The market is simple too small compared to the hedge fund size.

Currently, when market tumble, ringgit goes down as well so may be it is the sign of some 'hot' money moving out currently.

so any1 go in recently? the indicator show short for short term...

where n how can I sign up account to do this FKLI thing ?

can I do put/call options there ?

sorry for the late reply..

u can check with all the securities firm .. usually they have future a/c

Newbie here, where you guys trade FKLI...cimb i-trade can?

As far as I knew, there is no online portal can trade FKLI yet.

ic, then where to trade?

go find a future broker lo

open on account n goreng.....but very easy win n drop

Where to find one?

hi, my name is ethan i'm a futures broker from osk anything i can assit u? can email me, ethanfoo@yahoo.com or 012-9668830

Hey guy , can u teach me invest in KLCI. Need register? where to register?
Which website provide the latest update for KLCI? Need how much capital?
Any fUTURE BROKER recommand?

Kindly reply!

THANK!

This post has been edited by Elvisatm: Jun 8 2008, 10:47 AM

hello all..

attended 1 seminar..selling softwares that provides indicator when to short or long at certain point in KLCI..
so.. it wasn't too expensive, around 5k.. wonder any1 of u tried it?
how realiable are those? haha... maybe they sell us software and cabut immediately.. hehe

Hmmm, FKLI market is a total volatile market, anybody is a full time trader here?

FKLI market requires alot of bling bling and amunition ...

unlike stock market ur ammo need only be a shot gun or rifle...

for FKLI u need to have a machine gun just in case ur ammo must be at least close to infinite.

How?

if the inital margin is Rm 5000 u must have at least Rm 10,000 to cover the IM, and the ability to lose Rm 5000 without being financially affected.

Thats the rule of thumb 2x the initial margin.

Daily margin call, another Rm 2500 to cover daily margin losses for top up purposes.

Per contract basis
Rm 5000 initial Margin paid per contract
Rm 10,000 reserve per contract (x2 of the initial margin)
Rm 2,500 daily top up margin call (50% of the margin sum)
Total Rm 17,500 per contract.

I guarantee u sleep peacefully at night without worries.

I never attended one and never used one. If they are so good, they would keep the secret weapon themselves instead of selling them.
Whatever indicators are based on price actions and trends.
I think to use the 5K as capital to try out the mkt oneself is a better deal, but at least one needs to know some basic Technical Analysis and trading knowledge lah.

now the margin is 4K

it will change depending on market situation

assuming Inital Margin is 4K (i havent updated myself lately so on assumption)

4K isn't ur capital, its equivalent to a deposit for the broker.
u will need another 4K - this will be ur capital because u ned to top up for margin losses everyday depending if ur winning or lossing of course.

yup, eg. one longs at 850, and decides o/nite, closing 825. so end of day unrealised loss = 25pt x 50 = rm1250.

If you one has only RM5000 in the acc, then RM5000 - Margin RM4000 - Unrealised Loss RM1250 = negative RM250.

So one will receive Margin Call RM250 to top up the acc.

Please correct me if my calculation not correct, as I have never had margin call experience, my deposit amount is 2x of margin normally.

TIll now who is earning?

lets discuss more on the outlook of the FKLI market... the market has been like sleeping for few days... and expects to "hibernate" for the coming few days unless something big haapens in the U.S again ><

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Added on December 17, 2008, 3:12 pmThe market seems to be quite weak given the reduction of interest as much as 75BPS...

Good things about this is that the policymaker is intact to save the economy....

Bad things about this is that the room for the policymaker to save the market will be lesser due to current U.S interest rate which is currently as low as 0~0.25%... in order for the policymaker to further boost consumption or liquidity into the market, the policymaker have to put interest rate into the negative territory...

any comments from anyone else?? pls advise

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Added on December 17, 2008, 3:44 pmU.S reduced the interest rate of as high as 75BPS to 0% of 0.25%....

Good thing about this is the policymakers is policymakers are willing to save the economy from being worsen...

Bad thing about this is there is very less room for the policymakers to further boost consumption or liquidity into the market...

pls advice if there exist any other comments...

This post has been edited by Sleepy^Speculator: Dec 17 2008, 03:44 PM

Guys, I'm thinking of exploring the KLCI Futures but I'm not too familiar with the buying and selling rules in Futures contracts.

I have a few questions, I'll list them down:

1. Is there like a minimum I have to buy or something? Like in stocks, we have to purchase 1000 units at a time, is there any such thing in Futures?

2. In Crude Palm Oil Futures (FCPO), the underlying instrument is the Crude Palm Oil itself. So if I don't sell by the settlement date, I get a few tons of Crude Palm Oil shipped to my house. In KLCI Futures (FKLI), the underlying instrument is the KLCI Index. So if I don't sell the contract by the settlement date, what happens?

From what I read, FKLI is a Cash-Settled Futures Contract, but what I can't find is what happens if I don't sell an FKLI contract by the settlement date.

Would appreciate it very much if someone could help me understand this.

Edit:
I got the answer for question 2. Still no idea on Question 1.



This post has been edited by DeniseLau: Feb 7 2009, 05:15 PM

why not try CFD to protect your money management

Hi Denise,

Erm, there is no minimum buying or selling. you can buy or sell depends how much you debit in your account. 1 contract per now is RM3500.

1. Min 1 contract.

Initial margin varied from time to time, last time as low at Rm1,800 per contract, and as high as Rm6k+ at one time during market turbulence time.

Online Trading Futures-DMA (Direct Market Access) is coming soon!
So we will be able to keyin to long/short the FKLI/FCPO ourself............
Let's us talk about this

get more info about this DMA
or get the DMA_Handbook


This post has been edited by asiatrader98: Feb 26 2009, 08:08 AM

DMA?? I am working in china GZ and currently only buy/sell share online in maybank2u... not in fkli ...now keep collecting bullet!!

This post has been edited by darenohh: Feb 26 2009, 10:27 PM

Interesting, but do we need to pay for the software to have the direct access or is it freely downloadable.

pm me ur name & h/p number or e-mail if u r keen about this dma-online trading fkli/fcpo
I will send u the contact of person in charge

i think it includes real time charting & order execution

RM200++ mthly fee will waive if u have certain volume, so very obvious, this product is aim for those active trader (about 40~50+/- per round turn)....& the rate is a bit lower than current mkt rate (about 25% discount...)
unless u r keen to keyin urself rather than by call to ur fbr, even u r not active trader, & if u have subscribed to real time charting service, still have some rebate with ur light volume


not yet confirm, all the info above I got from the person in charge only ....I am also waiting for it....

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Added on February 27, 2009, 7:32 amno need, with the password protected pendrive we can keyin the order, according to person in charge
only mthly subscprtion fee (can be waived if u achieved certain vol or rebate with ur vol) but include real time charting



This post has been edited by asiatrader98: Feb 27 2009, 07:33 AM

Does any of you guys have FKLI intraday chart? I looked around and can't seems to find any provider. The only one I found was Teleqoute, which is RM2500 per year, which I think is way too expensive. Can you guys tell me where else can I get FKLI intraday chart?

Thanks!!

maybe 1 or 2 mths later u can get the DMA then u will have the real time charting with the order excecution urself
currently, u may get the free real time charting from osk or rhb

3/4/09 Sell 909.5
Justification: Gap up on 2/4/09, confirmation to test next resistance at 926-936, econ data not convincing, sentimental play
Concern: Yen weaken against Dollar, RM strengthen against Yen indicates money inflow, Jap is buying high yield assets, or carry trade in play. According to news, Jap has been net buyer for past few days.
Action: Prepare to buy stop @ 912.5 and wait for better opportunity to sell again.

If I made 2500 a day I would sleep peacefully with or w/o Futures lol

This post has been edited by wodenus: Apr 11 2009, 06:12 PM

hi all, few questions to ask about FUTURES:

1. Now is the month of April, but how come there are people buying contracts for month of May, June and even until September?

2. What does FCPO, FMG3, FMG5, FMGA mean?

3. Knowing that buying and selling's commissions are RM20 each, what if i'm buying 2 contracts and selling 2 contracts? Does it still RM40 total for commission fees?

That's for at the moment.... Thanks in advance.

hi, i have one urgent question to ask:

Mr. A buys one contract at market's open price (900 point).

The moving status drops at 890 point at 10am.

However, the market closes at 910 point.

I just wonder, if Mr. A earnsor loses?

Mr A earn nothing from it, as he didn't close the open interest aka he didn't sell the long contract at all.

Price movement doesn't dictate your loss or gain. It i your transaction aka buy and sell price aka a closed transaction sell-buy price that is your final result.

noted with thanks.

Got it.

I have one question again, regarding FUTURES.

It doesn't have to buy a contract at a low price then only sell it at high price, right?
A successful contract can be done at first sell it at a high price, then buy it at low price when the status meet the low price, am I getting it right?

Yup

Buy first -> long
Sell first -> short

Any website to view FKLI ?

http://www.klse.com.my/website/bm/

Prices are delayed by 15 mins

Aurora97 is very right, although I disagree about the "sleeping without worries" part.

Feb 26, 2007.....the Shanghai Composite Index plunged 10% in a day, and the next day our own KLCI plunged more than 100 pts at the opening bell. You may be able to cushion the blow with that massive RM17,500 per contract, but you'll sure as hell won't be able to sleep soundly during such turbulent times, because you're staring at thousands in paper losses per contract. Buy more contracts and you'll either save yourself or dig a deeper hole. The only measure that can save you (not without some "injuries", of course) are stop-loss points.

How do I know this? Because I was there, holding not one but 5 contracts at the time. And WITHOUT the aforementioned stop-loss points. Painful doesn't even begin to describe it.

For all the beginners who wish to venture into FKLI trading, I have one advice to all of you. You have to make sure you damn well know what you're doing. This instrument, together with other derivatives such as warrants and options, not to mention Forex (even more so), are about as close to gambling as you can get. Leverage is a double-edged sword, sure you can earn a lot quickly if things go your way, but if they don't, tough luck. With these FKLI contracts, you are always fighting against time, and that time is 30 days or less if you buy the spot month contract. And as aurora97 put it, your biggest weapon is CAPITALISATION, and you'll need tonnes of it.

And a last tip: Never meet a margin call. You may have heard that saying before, but I have experienced the truth of it. Trust me, you don't want to go through that. The sayings are there for a reason.

If you want instant price, you need to open a Futures account and register at their website

if wanna trade futures.. better to trade emini

I need to highlight further...

"the stop loss mechanism" may not even work at times because of sudden volatile price flactuations that may not trigger it. The drop in the price is so rapid that stop loss trigger forgone totally.

I heard about the theory part, the actual workings i don't really know.

So trade with caution

This post has been edited by aurora97: Apr 23 2009, 10:03 AM

hi, i have 2 questions:

1. Let's say, Mr. A sell 1 contract at 970 point on 29 April 2009, he means to buy 1 contract at 960 point but the moving status has not triggered 960 point.

What happened with Mr. A if until 30 April 2009, he still doesn't manage to buy the contract at any point lower than 970 point? Will he loss for the April contract?


2. What does MO mean? What are the purposes to buy or sell at MO?

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 23 2009, 03:45 PM

1. Assume Mr. A sell 1 contract at 970 on 29 Apr 2009 for Spot Month. On 30th Apr 2009 ending day, the system will auto match and initiate a buy on whatever the price is. If below 970, still profit. Otherwise, margin call if insufficient balance.

I think can negotiate to bring the contract over to next month with the broker.

2. MO = Matching Order before opening. Similiar like trading shares now. You can buy/sell at the price listed.

MP = Matching Price before closing for the day. e.g. If yesterday I buy at 967 during MP, today I can sell at 986.50 during MP. 19.5 pts minus fees for ~RM400 profit per contract.