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 RCCB for Water Heater

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SUSceo684
post May 12 2023, 07:40 AM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 11 2023, 11:20 PM)
Yeah, ST still allows 100mA for lighting and AC.

House developers will always say if you use 30mA as main RCD, you can expect trips every 2-3 days.
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Didn't see my own place blackout every 2-3days laugh.gif its a myth
SUSceo684
post May 12 2023, 08:51 AM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 12 2023, 08:45 AM)
That's a dilemma I'm facing. My house has just one main 300mA RCCB.
Really confused now with the options:
1) one main 30mA rccb and 10mA rccb for heater, but worried about frequent trips as double storey house tends to have more current imbalance due to more circuits/fixtures?

2) 100mA main rccb, 10mA rccb for WH, and swap SSO circuit MCBs with RCBOs - means aircon and lighting circuit protected by syok-sendiri 100mA main rccb.

Which option should I go for?

Also, will adding SPD at DB help with trip reduction especially during thunderstorm?
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1. Modern 30mA = Never tripped except for severe thunderstorm (wind howling type). Maybe once/twice a year at most, not every single rain like the old 300mA we had.
Whole SG also using 30mA don't see blackout all the time.

2. Very costly. For what follow ER1994 spec identically when we can go tighter without problems.

Just don't cheap out on RCD can liao. Get ABB/Hager (with anti nuisance trip)

This post has been edited by ceo684: May 12 2023, 08:51 AM
SUSceo684
post Oct 3 2023, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(Richard Walter @ Oct 3 2023, 12:25 PM)
Is this DB ok? Need some advice before proceeding. Thanks in advance!
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Ok except the last one use 40A 0.03A


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SUSceo684
post Oct 5 2023, 01:20 AM

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QUOTE(lankorn @ Oct 5 2023, 01:05 AM)
May i know why you say so?Do you mean to have 2 separate Neutral busbar?
Eventually all the Neutral will be connect back to incoming(main) Neutral right?
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Actually on second thought. Why not just use a single 63 0.03 RCD since it’s on single phase. There is no need to split DB.

It’s because the neutral group of circuits on RCCB A should not be mixed with neutral group of circuits on RCCB B before passing the “checkpoint”.
SUSceo684
post Oct 5 2023, 01:49 AM

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QUOTE(lankorn @ Oct 5 2023, 01:30 AM)
I cannot understand  biggrin.gif .Can you draw?
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Mixing your neutrals BEFORE the RCD "checkpoint" has different implications.

U know how shops like genki sushi and sushi king charge for per-plate kaiten belt sushi?
RCD operates like u eat, u pay for your plate tower.
Now let's say I eat, I don't know you, but I put my plates into your table.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 5 2023, 01:52 AM


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SUSceo684
post Oct 7 2023, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(Richard Walter @ Oct 7 2023, 12:00 PM)
Quick question. According to the wireman the RCCB can be fed from both ways, Is the Live & Neutral position correct? New RCCB ABB Model FH202 & MCB SH201L.

I also have many of the old MCB ABB Model S231. Can i mix  and use back?
Thanks

Attached picture below
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Yes the FH202 terminals are bidirectional from the diagram 1/2 2/1

SH201 without L better.

Old MCB u need to check for fakes as well. Since new MCB not expensive rm 8 a piece I would go for new “peace of mind” for 30 years
SUSceo684
post Oct 7 2023, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(Richard Walter @ Oct 7 2023, 01:43 PM)
Thanks for reply.  Mine all the new one SH201L. What is the difference with L and without ya?

Ok .will change all to new mcb
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4.5kA vs 6kA short circuit withstand.
SUSceo684
post Oct 7 2023, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(Richard Walter @ Oct 7 2023, 01:59 PM)
By the way the RCCB L & N in correct position right? Also the MCB load at bottom correct?

Thanks a bunch
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Yes FH202 L&N ok one.

Traditionally MCB is line at bottom but ABB one bidirectional. Ok.
SUSceo684
post Oct 14 2023, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(Richard Walter @ Oct 7 2023, 01:58 PM)
Meaning? Which is which ?
Sorry ya, i noob to this. Worried get con by wireman.:{
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L is slightly cheaper.
The barang cost only 50c or rm1 a pc difference. I don't bother using 4.5ka SH201L because the small diff use 6kA SH201 better
The SH201L one is when "every cent is a problem" case when client very tight for money but its not worth stocking..

QUOTE(JinXXX @ Oct 12 2023, 01:50 PM)
your pic shouldn't the wire be 16mm coming out from the main switch ? ? rather than 10mm ?
or cause you have 40a/30ma rccd thats why you ok with 10mm ?
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16mm x2 in that almost impossible to fit.

QUOTE(ryansxs @ Oct 12 2023, 05:25 PM)
Have 3 RCCBs

100mA for lightings
30mA for sockets
10mA for direct water related product (water heater)
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U forgot the up to.
Also note per each water heater = need its own unique unit of 10mA. Three WH = 3pcs 10mA.

Attached Image

Also note that this is 30 year old regulations (ER 1994) in the era of flourescent tubes and window-box type aircon rclxub.gif in 2023 one piece 30mA bao kah liao is perfect. Save space. Save time.
It is also illegal w.e.f July 2023 in SG to use anything other than a 30mA RCD for the main RCD. This is for safety reasons.
Attached File  Circular_RD_E01_2023_ELISE.pdf ( 247.6k ) Number of downloads: 26



QUOTE(lowyat101 @ Oct 13 2023, 08:11 AM)
My understanding is, the 10mm2 cable is ok since TS is not expecting the current over this circuit to exceed this, but TS need to install a 40A MCB before the 40A RCCD. To me this is a must, else you are right that the cable should then be 16mm2.
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By right should be protected by 2 pcs of 40A MCB if 2 pcs of 10mm cable is used.
A 63A main switch does not protect any of the 10mm cable.
Going by principle of either FUSE PROTECT CABLE = OK and CABLE PROTECT FUSE = 🔥 this should be better managed especially by the tradespeople sweat.gif

Loose cut (cut by 1m lengths) mega kabel 16mm only few ringgit even to order in the correct multi colours Red Yellow Blue Black..

** sorry, am typing on laptop quite hard to do the alt 0178 notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 14 2023, 12:38 AM
SUSceo684
post Oct 14 2023, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Oct 13 2023, 11:12 AM)
so RCBO is better than RCCB, since RCBO can do both ?
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Just a way of saying 2-in-1 coffee sachet vs separated coffee and creamer sachets; IRL dedicated functionality RCD+MCB is preferred (cheaper by approx half price of a RCBO) unless there is space constraint

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 14 2023, 12:41 AM
SUSceo684
post Oct 14 2023, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(ryansxs @ Oct 14 2023, 01:41 PM)
Yes up to, each water related equipment needs one RCCB of 10mA

Follow ST document attached. (Malaysia standard follow bulat bulat what IEC says anyway)
Also what wiremen who hold PW2/PW3 have to follow.

Watch MahBayu youtube for fun.
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Correct. This ST guideline still based on ER1994.
SUSceo684
post Oct 31 2023, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(Richard Walter @ Oct 31 2023, 11:34 AM)
Forgot to mention .Will be adding this as well (picture attached), not sure how good. All will be done after some wiring works complete. Did insulation test and found some wiring need to be replaced.
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I’m not in favour of this because it only has CE shiok sendiri mark. It’s not a proper Sirim or equivalent certification.
SUSceo684
post Oct 31 2023, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(Richard Walter @ Oct 31 2023, 05:54 PM)
I see coz the wireman recommended. Will skip it in this case. The others should be good to go right?
Once finished wiring will start to change the DB
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Yup all good 👍
SUSceo684
post Dec 29 2023, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(RagingCandy @ Mar 19 2023, 01:53 PM)
Means using 300mA RCCB is okay? Noob here
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Usually human die at 50mA.
300mA mean u kena hexa killed (6x killed).
30mA will stop it before major damage occur to your heart.
SUSceo684
post Feb 6 2024, 11:06 PM

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--

This post has been edited by ceo684: Feb 6 2024, 11:07 PM
SUSceo684
post May 4 2024, 02:50 AM

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QUOTE(nbi @ May 3 2024, 01:18 PM)
situation, add one washing machine at bathroom.

1, share water heater rccb 25a 10ma connection to the new washing machine, can?

or

2, individual new mcb 16a + new rccb 25a 10ma?
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I prefer option 2. I don't prefer to share because the WH itself consume a big chunk of amperage by itself.
SUSceo684
post Jul 23 2024, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(Lighters @ Jul 19 2024, 11:33 PM)
Appreciate ur replies. Which mean 2P MCB is more safer than the isolator. got it.

This is the main db. The only DB also. It should be connected to the RCCB right?
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Isolator don't have overcurrent protection, but you can just add in another 63A 2P MCB after it. Followed by the RCCB.

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