QUOTE(stormer.lyn @ Nov 13 2024, 08:31 PM)
As mentioned if the cable/wire is operating hot at 70C. This is based on electrical engineering formulation. I believe it is more on insulation based on Arrhenius equation.RCCB for Water Heater
RCCB for Water Heater
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Nov 18 2024, 03:13 PM
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7,934 posts Joined: Mar 2014 |
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Nov 18 2024, 06:08 PM
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#242
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1,132 posts Joined: Apr 2014 From: Shah Alam, Selangor |
QUOTE(Zot @ Nov 18 2024, 03:13 PM) As mentioned if the cable/wire is operating hot at 70C. This is based on electrical engineering formulation. I believe it is more on insulation based on Arrhenius equation. Wait, what? Isn't that equation valid for a chemical reaction, while wires and insulation degrade through a physical process ie overheating? |
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Nov 22 2024, 05:05 PM
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1,784 posts Joined: Mar 2009 From: PJ lamansara... :D |
QUOTE(stormer.lyn @ Nov 10 2024, 10:13 PM) The rating of the MCB is to protect the cables that are connected. So for example a 2.5 mm² cable has a rating of 24 A**, then the MCB should be not be 25 A, but 20 A. Thank you again for your suggestion. 1. Yes, must change to RCBO, or add RCCB with the C32. If wire is 4 mm² can maintain C32, but I would strongly suggest C25. (Maximum 5700 W water heater with C25) If the wire is 2.5 mm², then technically you already cannot use C20 as Suruhanjaya Tenaga say cannot use 2.5 mm² wire for water heater. Realistically the water heater won't be at maximum heat, so you can get away with a C20 RCBO. (My own instant water heater with rain shower and warm enough for me draws ~16 A measured) 2. Again mainly depends on the wire size. You should also look at the rating of the appliance. For 3500 W, then you would have about 16 A at full cooking power. So, going down to a C20 would be safer no matter the wire size. 3. It does sound extremely oversized. Most hoods are less than 1000 W, so a C16/C20 would be fine. My own unit: Lighting 1.5 mm² MCB C10 13 A socket 2.5 mm² MCB C16 A/cond 2.5 mm² MCB C16 Water heater 4 mm² MCB C20+RCCB 10 mA -or- RCBO C20 10 mA Specialty appliance 4 mm² C25 (Oven for example) Edit I have a row of 3 x 13 A sockets at my kitchen counter. I can foresee myself using an air fryer and an induction cooker while boiling water at the same time. Individually they are not more than 1500 W each, but collectively to the looped sockets it is more than C20. Hence the wire feeding these looped sockets are 4 mm² Note that ST says air conds are to use 4 mm² wires, but I think that is absolutely overkill as a 2 HP a/cond is at maximum 2000 W (~9A). So I don't follow ST rules to the letter. I'm okay to match the MCB to the wire to the power draw of the appliance. ** This rating depends mainly on the heat that is produced when the wire is flowing the rated amperes. This 24 A is the rating at best case, when the heat can dissipate from the cable. Make that situation worse, by burying that cable in the wall, run 3 phase together, run lots of wires together, etc, and that rating will reduce. #1 Finally managed to get one willing electrician (most don't bother a small job like this, dunno why) who agreed to do this. It was quite a tedious job to replace MCB to RCBO, not as straight-cut as I thought it to be. He had to find the correct neutral and get it hooked up to the RCBO. And he too confirmed the heater wire is 4mm². #2. He is in the opine that I should keep it the C32. Wire size is acceptable to him - matching the C32 requirement but because I'm not sure the original spec of the induction cooker (one induction, one highlight ceramic) he would recommend me to keep it that way. #3. Changed to MCB C20. For all the changes, he took out the wall switch and inspected all the wires in it too just to make sure the wire size is correct.. I guess that's considered a good electrician ? His last recommendation was to change the DB box from plastic to metal type (wouldn't that be dangerous ?) and to split the 3P RCCB from 0.1mA into 2 (0.03mA and 0.1mA).. Will wait for budget then All good for now. ![]() |
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Nov 22 2024, 05:45 PM
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#244
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1,132 posts Joined: Apr 2014 From: Shah Alam, Selangor |
QUOTE(numbertwo @ Nov 22 2024, 05:05 PM) Thank you again for your suggestion. Glad that there is some positive progress. I guess electricians do not want to do small jobs because of the opportunity cost.#1 Finally managed to get one willing electrician (most don't bother a small job like this, dunno why) who agreed to do this. It was quite a tedious job to replace MCB to RCBO, not as straight-cut as I thought it to be. He had to find the correct neutral and get it hooked up to the RCBO. And he too confirmed the heater wire is 4mm². #2. He is in the opine that I should keep it the C32. Wire size is acceptable to him - matching the C32 requirement but because I'm not sure the original spec of the induction cooker (one induction, one highlight ceramic) he would recommend me to keep it that way. #3. Changed to MCB C20. For all the changes, he took out the wall switch and inspected all the wires in it too just to make sure the wire size is correct.. I guess that's considered a good electrician ? His last recommendation was to change the DB box from plastic to metal type (wouldn't that be dangerous ?) and to split the 3P RCCB from 0.1mA into 2 (0.03mA and 0.1mA).. Will wait for budget then All good for now. ![]() As for finding the neutral wire, you just have to clamp and see which wire that has the same current of the outgoing live when the heater is On. Should only take a few minutes. Don't know why your guy got stuck there. MaxGuard has 25 A MCB if you ever want to change the 32 A ones. Can order online. Metal DBs last longer and won't get brittle like plastic ones, but they can rust. I don't think it is any more dangerous if properly earthed. Unfortunately the 0.03 mA RCCB is a requirement from Suruhanjaya Tenaga, so you'll have to make sure to budget for it some time. Anyway, I'll try to answer if you post any more questions here. numbertwo liked this post
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