Just to add the BRT project funding and cooperation between the council and SUNWAY is more complex than it is mentioned above, but the underlying point I am trying to make remains valid.

(1) it is a loss making endeavour (2) it is an endeavour after the fact (after the original Sunway master plan). (3) Sunway funded the project in part (sunken cost) after the original master plan is complete - but we must also take into account new phases added to a new master plan, that expanded from the original master plan, (4) Sunway is also maintaining BRT out of pocket in part and (5) the BRT is built by Sunway because there is also other factors that makes business sense (a point I am making), other than just the simple notion that a facility has to be profitable or not cost-adverse before a property developer will ever consider funding it (and I point out that this logical fallacy that has been repeatedly made by Predator).

I reiterate, the POV and hypothesis has nothing to do with EXSIM WILL BUILD "A PARK" AT THE ROCK FACE. And prospective buyers should not use this as a yardstick to make your purchase decision for DCP

IT IS CLEAR that the point of contention between PREDATORS'S POV and mine is that (1) Predator assumes/speculates IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN VS. I see potential in the natural rock face that can be activated if EXSIM or a third party choose to do so

And (2) Predator is accusing me of making speculations. Which I have clearly said I am making speculations that the natural rock face has value. My counter point is Predators is also making speculations that IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN

This has shifted never so slightly from the last point of contention which Predator (incorrectly) accuse me of making speculations in order to "sell" the project or mak make-belief by fantasising. I had also pointed out that Predator is wrong to accuse others of speculating when his/her own point of view is also speculative (IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN).



This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 12:41 PM

You still fail to see the logical fallacy in your arguments

Your premise is that any sort of feature at the rock face will never happen

And the Sunway BRT, Sunway South Quay, X PARK is clear scenarios that indicate the simple fact. When it makes business sense, any one will invest to activate the potential

Be it on the scale of TOD, town planning, master plan or even a Taman. You are setting up a slippery slope fallacy by saying that the DCP SCENARIO is incomparable

Genting did not sell off land to get a vendor to build a park inside Genting property. Genting is also pairing new investment/joint ventures into new facilities/attractions/value propositions with expansion and growth to its existing development

UNDERATAND THIS. THERE IS NO FACTS AND EVIDENCE in your argument. It is mere speculation based on extrapolation

The very fact you selectively reference Metropark while selectively reject Sunway is clear to see that you are dwelling in logical fallacies and confirmation bias

The fact EXSIM go into a JV with Mammoth empire to "save" Empire City Mall and "eat" DCP is already counter to the premise you are making - that EXSIM will only out in money for things they can sell.

Now, I posit you the rhetorical question to expose your err -

- Why put in money into Empire City Mall when they can't sell it?
- Why put in money into the Sky Deck Garden when they are not selling it?
- And hence why can't they get into a scenario where they either build the small "artist impression" (a few structures as an attraction, marketing tool, rent out income) or build something even fancier with JVs or vendors?

THINK THROUGH THESE LOGICAL FALLACIES

THERE IS NO FACTS AND EVIDENCE IN YOUR ARGUMENTS. IT IS SPECULATION AGAINST THE IDEA BASED ON PREMISES AND EXTRAPOLATION - Which I have duly deconstructed, elaborated and explained that it is just as it is - speculation that is a negative pov

I didn't say it is wrong. I only say it is not the only scenario

Hence IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN is just a speculative assesement.

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 01:00 PM

By the way, I have just run a quick check on the original BRT proposal documents and press releases on BRT.

BRT IS NOT A TOD nor has it been marketed as a TOD by Sunway at the time of its vision and construction

There is a few articles of proposals (3 years after construction) to Prasarana to reduce BRT fares by some developers (not Sunway) to try to make it some form of TOD, nothing after that

Don't make up imaginary facts
ARE YOU TRUMP WITH "ALT FACTS"¿ 😂😂😂

P.S. you are imagining things too - from the get go I have explored the idea that is the "artist impressions", as well as expanded on it to say it has potential to be made to an even more attractive proposition - like a rock climbing park by entrepeunerial individuals, EXSIM or partners - fact check my statements and go read all my post - DON'T TAKE CREDIT WHEN IT IS NOT DUE.

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 01:29 PM

Again, please be more fastidious, read my last comment carefully -- it has to do with the premise you used to justify your WILL NOT HAPPEN. It's pretty much elaborated there

Again, selective interpretation and deflecting ... what's even more worse is you peddle the falsehood that BRT is a TOD. It is not. Own up to that. You can't have alternative facts when it does not suit your worldview.

Like I said I had already elaborated what the BRT example is aimed at. Its only four post up. Any body can see that.

Dismissing valid points by shouting "its going no where.." is in actual fact another logical fallacy, its called false dichotomy. Worse, it escapism

You can be convincing if you stuck to addressing the points I made, Mr FACTS AND EVIDENCE . Saying "its going no where........" is empty and stinks of escapism

Escaping is not going make your point any better. Its cognitive dissonance.

Also your premise and speculation IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN is based on what in research we call McNamara's fallacy

This I can agree. It applies to all developers and developments. And businesses in general. It is all about up-marketing and bottom line

But that is besides the point. There's a reason property investors are called pundits. We assess based on existing value propositions and future opportunities.

Anyway, your statement = sky high expectations on exsimms delivery of the project. I hope this is a personal opinion, and not the I AM FACTS AND EVIDENCE sort of pronouncement that Predator makes.

Its a valid opinion. But if we have to be objective to the level of "FACTS AND EVIDENCE" (standard demanded by Predator), to put it simply, in research we sometimes see such generalisations as Simpson's paradox and false dichotomy

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 04:34 PM

Makes a more interesting read here. PM is no fun

Because you are bent at peddling your own version. Doing the forum a service by pointing out the err in your attacks and overbearing proclamations on anything that does not suit your negative agenda

Like I have clearly put it. If anyone follows each and every post you make on this thread, we can see a pattern, you are indifferent to outright hostile to anything positive about this project, but are quick to point out and glee at anything negative

I can understand the motivation to deter fanciful up-marketing by agents, but to syte on and belittle others that share a positive view is what warrants a public whack- a-mole

What I found is even more wanting. For a person who proclaims that you're mall about EVIDENCE and FACTS, you totally missed the sky deck and also all the other road connectivity being built. You also did not do a site recce.... Add this all up

I believe audiences and new visitors need to be brought to their attention of your pessimistic bias (to active discouragement of this project that's based on a motley of truths, half-truths, active sabotage and poor understanding of the project) - all these should be brought not the attention of unsuspecting audiences

It's so bad it's like you're the anti-salemen (a pun based on the moniker anti-Christ)

You are not FACT AND EVIDENCE based as you so proclaim

You don't need to keep repeating Metropark like a broken record. I've have already posited my POV that runs counter to this POV and showed plenty of valid points in more than one reply post, that your POV is one scenario but not the only scenario

And stop using the I'M ALL FACTS AND EVIDENCE, moniker-bullshit. I've shown in more than 20 exchanges between you and me, that you are far from deserving to this self proclamation

I have been upfront about my statements and opinions. I am an investor and investor are pundits. When you invest, you look at existing value proposition, risks, and also future opportunities and future risks.

On this thread, I share both favourable and unfavourable facts and opinions on this project. Unlike you, I am objective in presenting information, facts and speculations alike.

I invite all audience to subject every one of my post to this examination. And then do the same for Predators's posts. That is enough to reveal your hypocrisy and your negative even to the degree of hostile bias to this project.

I too see plenty of downsides Vs upsides for this project. Which is why I did invest as it does not fit my investment criteria and risk profile.

But at the same time,I also see that this project is flawed but well suited for prospective buyers of other risk profiles, temperament or needs

Similarly, agents do up marketing because it is their role to sell. Point out their up-marketing all you wish. I'm pretty agreeable to that, esp if these agents peddle falsehoods

But what is your role? Master naysayer? I too am agreeable with that, because there needs to be a devil's advocate

But to make bold proclamations of EVIDENCE AND FACTS but not practice what you preach, you come across to me as just as bad as overpromising salesmen. You actively throws whatever mud you can find to detract the project, to what purpose or agenda I suppose? (This is my opinion, but I invite all audiences to look at every one of Predators's posts, and formulate your own opinion on Predator).

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 06:07 PM

You are only but one of two hell bent to derailing the optimism for this project. I guess it's natural for you to have this opinion. But future audiences get the benefit of seeing through your veil or hate of this project

You still don't get the point

Again what you mentioned above is what we call in research and risk assessment false dichotomy. It's a logical fallacy. And you're guilty of it
Please be more fastidious and evaluate the points and address them if you have an opinion

To wave it all off with a lazy opinion, that is also a false dichotomy, is telling of your level.

To make it simple for you. It's an exchange of POVs. And the outcome is that I reveal the logical fallacy that there's only my way or the highway (false or true - this is false dichotomy)

Understand that ☝️

I totally agree with the oversupply. This is the primary reason I won't invest. Doesn't make sense. But this alone does not make it a project that everyone should avoid like a virus

So says the person that can only come up with infantile one liners with zero elaboration

The more you open your mouth the more you embarrass yourself. Try harder please. You're an adult, not a three year old

Very Trumpian reply. When faced with insurmountable challenges, mock, insult and deflect

Nah, I disagree. Of course you're entitled to your opinions, however infantile it is. If you ask me, I come to think it's just my fluency and better command of the language.

其实如果你觉得我用英文你太难消化， 不如我们转用华文好吗？ 是否这比较适合你？ 沟通是需要了解才行。 我来帮帮你吧？

Akan tetapi, jika bahasa inggeris atau bahasa cina tidak sesuai untuk membantu kefahaman anda, kita juga boleh guna Bahasa Malaysia. Kamu hanya perlu beritahu saya bahasa yang lebih sesuai bagi anda

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 06:56 PM

I've elaborated on this in more than once in our multiple exchanges and the post you're replying to. Need I say more?

All the above points you're making - I'll sum up to one conclusion for you McNamara fallacy

It doesn't convince me (that you're a staunch supporter of facts and evidence), because of the simple fact that you make big claims without even doing a site recce. Own up to this.

No one is asking for your support. Nor did I claim that EXSIM will build something at the rock face. Get your head around this simple thought bottleneck

I was and have been merely pointing out the fact you're indulging in speculation when you accuse others of speculation

Do we actually need to list down the totality of your posts here. I invite you to set up a poll on this thread and ask the audiences here if they think you have a negative bias or not

Lest you accuse me of not being impartial, you should run this experiment. Discover the facts though the poll. Use evidence to settle the question .example (Ask thread members, do you think I come across as negatively biased against this project?)

You're entitled to your opinion..and there was no made up words, it's call coining terms, it's a form of figurative speech

That's why there is dash in between mantra and IMG.. you must have been living under a coconut if you haven't seen such coining of terms before. If you can understand what's a mantra and you already understand the context of that sentence.. I've already succeeded in the communication

I'll do one better for you, if you can't stand quirks in modern English, then just replace mantra-ing with "argument by repetition"

As for Trumpian.... It really shows you have no knowledge of recent popular events. Just Google it 😂😂😂😂😂 do the homework, find out what Trumpian is meant to imply. Hint* it's used as an adjective in the context of my sentence

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 07:15 PM

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...323m-debt-notes

EXSIM have to give a big thank you to D’Quince Residences and D’Vervain Residences buyers. Sales must be really good. They manage to "monetize" the sales performance of these two to convince UOB to supply them more funds (loans)

Buyers should ask for some "rewards" in return


On a more serious note, this piece of information highlights some of the underlying motivations that can be running EXSIMs decision moving forward. If the next trache of loans also have similar terms.

It partially explains the price point and positioning of DVervain and DQuince

If I recall correctly the UOB loan is for DCP and EXSIM'S commitments for Empire City..so we know there is cash for the time being

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 07:40 PM

Your lack of attention to detail is really a shame. Fact is, not even once do I ever mention DCP is all good or fantastic. You need to be more fastidious with facts when making up oft statements about others, you can't just because you feel like it. If you intend to make statement, at least back up your statements with reality.

If you ask for my opinion on their launch speed launch pattern☝️Look at the sukuk/UOB terms and conditions, it's easy to see where the price point, rush to build, rush to sell is coming from. They need the cash flow, they got their cash flow. Which is probably a lesson they learned from Mammoth. But I would opine that EXSIM wouldn't have enough motivatuons to rush the launch of commercial phases, given the current economic climate, the oversupply in the vicinity, and the ROI is not as immediate as an affordably priced residential unit.

They are property developer first, so it make sense that cash flow, build, launch, sell, monetize their sales prowess, borrow, build, launch, sell, repeat

As for - steel prices are definitely going to have a knock on effect, but then again it affects all developers across the board. How much risk exposure would this translate to to EXSIM, we don't know what we don't know. Hard to gauge when Winds an whispers of the steel price rise has been blowing since late 2020, it would be rather stupid if the developers don't hedge for this, especially for developers like EXSIM that have had their current expansion plans hatched years ago. We will just have to monitor the news if any developers get into trouble .

Another market to watch is a developer's cash flow.

Haha, I would I reckon the potency of my reasoning and elaboration is insurmountable by the likes of you.

Otherwise why would you find it annoying? I posit it's because there is little to ni way you can respond to my writings. Hence, you went the Trump route. Lazy but understandable. I feel you.

So say the person who have zero elaboration while making bold proclamations about others

Remember the days when Najib and UMNO proclaims " The Silent Majority agree with us". ... Yeah that's how your statement feels like

It not only mirror Najib and UMNO, it is also classic Trump.